Digital BW, The Print

While I am one of the 50% that receive emails from this forum, I believe the forum would be better hosted at DPreview.com as an example.  There the reading of threads by subject is easy, and there is a large audience of digital camera users (the future users of digital black and white) so the "reach" of the forum could be expanded.  I also like the ability of that forum to have links for images and embedded images too.  That could prove very useful and fast for users of the forum who like to "see" as well as read.  

I have no complaints about this forum (I read the many emails everyday) but I do think the other forum software (hosting at dpreview) would be beneficial (it would also allow me to limit my emails to essential correspondance) so I heartily suggest the move.  

As for the forum archives.....it seems rare that anyone reads them now anyway.  So...if there are good items that should be moved to a new home...just move the best...and link back to this forum for past threads for those interested.  

Steadman


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: tomoc 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 2:25 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Update report on search for new forum home


  Martin and Group-

  Given the 50/50 email/web split of our membership, my advice is to 
  stay where we are for now. I can't find a solution that has the 
  features we need. The closest is to take a step back in time and 
  become a USENET group... probably not a great idea.

  I, for one, would gladly contribute to a fund to remove the intrusive 
  advertising. Yahoo is nuts...this whole episode has totally soured me 
  on them as a company. The seem to have only AOL as a role model and 
  at least AOL provides reliable web connections along with the 
  annoyances <g>.


  Let us know if Yahoo ever responds...

  thanks,

  Tom O'Connell



  -- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Martin Wesley" 
  <mwesley250@e...> wrote:
  > Tom,
  > 
  > First of all thank you for spending so much time looking into this. 
  To
  > answer Austin's question , a move is being considered because as 
  the list
  > has grown in membership so has the Yahoo advertising. The 
  advertising has
  > become particularly annoying to those who access the group directly 
  with
  > their browser.
  > 
  > To answer your major question, a quick review of the membership 
  settings
  > indicate that there is about a 50/50 split between those who do and 
  those
  > who don't receive the posts by e-mail or digest. So there really 
  does need
  > to be both and the e-mail side needs to provide daily and weekly 
  digests.
  > 
  > On line access should provide the ability to view messages by date 
  (my
  > personal method of checking the group) and by thread. We are also 
  using the
  > Files, Bookmarks, Database and Polls features of the group homepage.
  > 
  > I have a backup of all the posted messages on my computer as *.elm 
  films and
  > a new site must be able to import all 9700 in mass and reconcile 
  duplicate
  > file names.
  > 
  > The other issue is that the hosting organization needs to be large, 
  stable
  > and likely to be around a long time. Yahoo has it's faults but it 
  does have
  > a huge amount of hardware and staff to keep it running and backed 
  up.
  > 
  > All together this is a very tall order.
  > 
  > As far as running a forum goes, it has taken far more of my time 
  than I
  > anticipated at the beginning. If you add to that the technical side 
  of
  > setting up software, maintaining a server, do back-ups, etc. the 
  time
  > investment would be huge.
  > 
  > The best solution would be to get Yahoo to modify their advertising 
  on line
  > either by persuasion. I have left voice mail with Yahoo and sent an 
  e-mail
  > about purchasing the ad space. Hopefully I will get a reply as this 
  would be
  > the easiest solution to our problems (assuming they don't want a 
  huge sum of
  > money!) If we do pay for this it would need to be done by the 
  members as one
  > of our founding principles is to be free of any connection to a 
  company
  > involved in selling products for digital printing.
  > 
  > Once again thank you for your research!
  > 
  > Martin
  > 
  > ----- Original Message -----
  > From: "tomoc" <tomoc@y...>
  > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...>
  > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 9:39 PM
  > Subject: [Digital BW] Update report on search for new forum home
  > 
  > 
  > > HI everyone-
  > >
  > > Thought I should give you all an update on my research on possible
  > > new homes for the list/forum.
  > >
  > > The first thing I am finding out is that it is important to know 
  if
  > > we need to remain a "list" with web access or whether we want to
  > > become a true forum, a web based community without the mailing 
  list.
  > >
  > > I personally have always used the web, finding the email either
  > > overwhelming (if individual emails) or confusing if digests (and 
  not
  > > too timely), but I see from many comments that a lot of us are 
  email
  > > list users. If this is to overcome the ad problem (as many have
  > > indicated), some of the homes I've found may be 
  suitable...if "list"
  > > remeains important, there will only be one alternative.
  > >
  > > My view is that the technolgoy of DPReview and RobGalbraith.com 
  are
  > > the best two platforms supporting content that is close enough to
  > > ours to consider a "merger".
  > >
  > > check them out, if you like:
  > >
  > > http://www.robgalbraith.com/  (click on enter forums)
  > > http://www.dpreview.com/  (click on forums)
  > >
  > > They both have a nice look and clean features that help you by
  > > threading and summarizing, etc. DP Review responded that they just
  > > wouldn't have time to transfer our archives. Rob Galbraith said 
  the
  > > archives would only be possible to transfer to his server if they
  > > were importable to the Ultimat Bulletin Board infrastructure, 
  which
  > > he thought was unlikely.
  > >
  > > I also checked with both the moderator and the membership of the
  > > Nikon D1 Users Group forum, a self hosted forum. I think we could
  > > work out a merger there...this is a terrific platform as well... 
  but
  > > it does not support the mailing list.
  > >
  > > Check this one out: http://www.nikond1.net/
  > >
  > > This left 2 alternatives that I am aware of. First would be to
  > > establish a USENET news group and this is a real possiblity. 
  Google
  > > now has a very slick interface for newsgroup reading and 
  responding.
  > > It's not quite as customized as Yahoo groups, but its fast, its 
  free
  > > and there are no ads whatever.
  > >
  > > See an example of this: http://groups.google.com/groups?
  > > hl=en&group=rec.photo.digital  (if this link doesn't work because
  > > it's on two lines, go to google groups and enter 
  rec.photo.digital in
  > > the search box).
  > >
  > > Finally, a member of the Nikon D1 Users forum contacted me and
  > > expressed and interest in helping us start one from scratch "I 
  have
  > > the server, the knowledge, and the connection. What I need is 
  time to
  > > manage it. If you want to co-host it, we could probably put this
  > > together ourselves."
  > >
  > > I don't know if we have anyone here who has the time to step up 
  and
  > > manage a forum (I don't even know how much time it would take). I
  > > assume this is not the case or we wouldn't be in Yahoo now???
  > >
  > > There is one other option. It has been mentioned on the list. That
  > > would be to pay Yahoo not to be in an ad environment. I haven't
  > > checked out this cost. I would be willing to contribute to it, but
  > > this is probably something that would be "safer" for the list to 
  be
  > > in some corporate hands. Maybe we should/could approach Epson or 
  and
  > > ink or paper manufacturer to buy sponsorships?
  > >
  > > Well... looking forward to feedback and new direction... if any...
  > >
  > > Tom O'Connell
  > > TomOC@y...
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
  Polls and
  > other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
  > >
  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
  > >
  > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
  > > - Include your full name with your message.
  > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
  > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
  messages to keep
  > them short.
  > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
  header.
  > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
  or "flames."
  > > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
  > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
  various
  > resources on the homepage.
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > >
  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  > >
  > >
  > >


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  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - Include your full name with your message.
  - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
  - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
  - Complete your Yahoo profile.
  - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. 




  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



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