Digital BW, The Print

I'm active both on DPreview and here, but I am more active here because 
DPreview is web based...

On Thursday 14 Feb 2002 10:23 pm, tomoc wrote:
> Steadman-
>
> I fear you may be one of the few email users willing to switch... I'm
> ok with that... but at the risk of starting a flame, it *does* seem
> awfully "80's" not to move to a web solution that can evolve <g>.
>
> I hadn't thought that we could move files and link back for
> archives... might work. Certainly after a while, it wouldn't get much
> use, but I guess yahoo isn't throwing us out and would just see less
> traffic, but they seem to be willing to put any page up if they can
> charge an advertiser, so I suspect we could keep the archives on
> those terms virutally forever.
>
> I'm for it, but not if there is any serious reluctance to abandon
> email. There is a great chemistry and mix of experise and personality
> here... if email is the glue, I'm for that.
>
> Tom O'Connell
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Steadman Uhlich"
>
> <steadmanuhlich@k...> wrote:
> > While I am one of the 50% that receive emails from this forum, I
>
> believe the forum would be better hosted at DPreview.com as an
> example.  There the reading of threads by subject is easy, and there
> is a large audience of digital camera users (the future users of
> digital black and white) so the "reach" of the forum could be
> expanded.  I also like the ability of that forum to have links for
> images and embedded images too.  That could prove very useful and
> fast for users of the forum who like to "see" as well as read.
>
> > I have no complaints about this forum (I read the many emails
>
> everyday) but I do think the other forum software (hosting at
> dpreview) would be beneficial (it would also allow me to limit my
> emails to essential correspondance) so I heartily suggest the move.
>
> > As for the forum archives.....it seems rare that anyone reads them
>
> now anyway.  So...if there are good items that should be moved to a
> new home...just move the best...and link back to this forum for past
> threads for those interested.
>
> > Steadman
> >
> >
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: tomoc
> >   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
> >   Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 2:25 PM
> >   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Update report on search for new forum
>
> home
>
> >   Martin and Group-
> >
> >   Given the 50/50 email/web split of our membership, my advice is
>
> to
>
> >   stay where we are for now. I can't find a solution that has the
> >   features we need. The closest is to take a step back in time and
> >   become a USENET group... probably not a great idea.
> >
> >   I, for one, would gladly contribute to a fund to remove the
>
> intrusive
>
> >   advertising. Yahoo is nuts...this whole episode has totally
>
> soured me
>
> >   on them as a company. The seem to have only AOL as a role model
>
> and
>
> >   at least AOL provides reliable web connections along with the
> >   annoyances <g>.
> >
> >
> >   Let us know if Yahoo ever responds...
> >
> >   thanks,
> >
> >   Tom O'Connell
> >
> >
> >
> >   -- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Martin Wesley"
> >
> >   <mwesley250@e...> wrote:
> >   > Tom,
> >   >
> >   > First of all thank you for spending so much time looking into
>
> this.
>
> >   To
> >
> >   > answer Austin's question , a move is being considered because
>
> as
>
> >   the list
> >
> >   > has grown in membership so has the Yahoo advertising. The
> >
> >   advertising has
> >
> >   > become particularly annoying to those who access the group
>
> directly
>
> >   with
> >
> >   > their browser.
> >   >
> >   > To answer your major question, a quick review of the membership
> >
> >   settings
> >
> >   > indicate that there is about a 50/50 split between those who do
>
> and
>
> >   those
> >
> >   > who don't receive the posts by e-mail or digest. So there
>
> really
>
> >   does need
> >
> >   > to be both and the e-mail side needs to provide daily and
>
> weekly
>
> >   digests.
> >
> >   > On line access should provide the ability to view messages by
>
> date
>
> >   (my
> >
> >   > personal method of checking the group) and by thread. We are
>
> also
>
> >   using the
> >
> >   > Files, Bookmarks, Database and Polls features of the group
>
> homepage.
>
> >   > I have a backup of all the posted messages on my computer as
>
> *.elm
>
> >   films and
> >
> >   > a new site must be able to import all 9700 in mass and
>
> reconcile
>
> >   duplicate
> >
> >   > file names.
> >   >
> >   > The other issue is that the hosting organization needs to be
>
> large,
>
> >   stable
> >
> >   > and likely to be around a long time. Yahoo has it's faults but
>
> it
>
> >   does have
> >
> >   > a huge amount of hardware and staff to keep it running and
>
> backed
>
> >   up.
> >
> >   > All together this is a very tall order.
> >   >
> >   > As far as running a forum goes, it has taken far more of my
>
> time
>
> >   than I
> >
> >   > anticipated at the beginning. If you add to that the technical
>
> side
>
> >   of
> >
> >   > setting up software, maintaining a server, do back-ups, etc.
>
> the
>
> >   time
> >
> >   > investment would be huge.
> >   >
> >   > The best solution would be to get Yahoo to modify their
>
> advertising
>
> >   on line
> >
> >   > either by persuasion. I have left voice mail with Yahoo and
>
> sent an
>
> >   e-mail
> >
> >   > about purchasing the ad space. Hopefully I will get a reply as
>
> this
>
> >   would be
> >
> >   > the easiest solution to our problems (assuming they don't want
>
> a
>
> >   huge sum of
> >
> >   > money!) If we do pay for this it would need to be done by the
> >
> >   members as one
> >
> >   > of our founding principles is to be free of any connection to a
> >
> >   company
> >
> >   > involved in selling products for digital printing.
> >   >
> >   > Once again thank you for your research!
> >   >
> >   > Martin
> >   >
> >   > ----- Original Message -----
> >   > From: "tomoc" <tomoc@y...>
> >   > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...>
> >   > Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 9:39 PM
> >   > Subject: [Digital BW] Update report on search for new forum home
> >   >
> >   > > HI everyone-
> >   > >
> >   > > Thought I should give you all an update on my research on
>
> possible
>
> >   > > new homes for the list/forum.
> >   > >
> >   > > The first thing I am finding out is that it is important to
>
> know
>
> >   if
> >
> >   > > we need to remain a "list" with web access or whether we want
>
> to
>
> >   > > become a true forum, a web based community without the
>
> mailing
>
> >   list.
> >
> >   > > I personally have always used the web, finding the email
>
> either
>
> >   > > overwhelming (if individual emails) or confusing if digests
>
> (and
>
> >   not
> >
> >   > > too timely), but I see from many comments that a lot of us
>
> are
>
> >   email
> >
> >   > > list users. If this is to overcome the ad problem (as many
>
> have
>
> >   > > indicated), some of the homes I've found may be
> >
> >   suitable...if "list"
> >
> >   > > remeains important, there will only be one alternative.
> >   > >
> >   > > My view is that the technolgoy of DPReview and
>
> RobGalbraith.com
>
> >   are
> >
> >   > > the best two platforms supporting content that is close
>
> enough to
>
> >   > > ours to consider a "merger".
> >   > >
> >   > > check them out, if you like:
> >   > >
> >   > > http://www.robgalbraith.com/  (click on enter forums)
> >   > > http://www.dpreview.com/  (click on forums)
> >   > >
> >   > > They both have a nice look and clean features that help you by
> >   > > threading and summarizing, etc. DP Review responded that they
>
> just
>
> >   > > wouldn't have time to transfer our archives. Rob Galbraith
>
> said
>
> >   the
> >
> >   > > archives would only be possible to transfer to his server if
>
> they
>
> >   > > were importable to the Ultimat Bulletin Board infrastructure,
> >
> >   which
> >
> >   > > he thought was unlikely.
> >   > >
> >   > > I also checked with both the moderator and the membership of
>
> the
>
> >   > > Nikon D1 Users Group forum, a self hosted forum. I think we
>
> could
>
> >   > > work out a merger there...this is a terrific platform as
>
> well...
>
> >   but
> >
> >   > > it does not support the mailing list.
> >   > >
> >   > > Check this one out: http://www.nikond1.net/
> >   > >
> >   > > This left 2 alternatives that I am aware of. First would be to
> >   > > establish a USENET news group and this is a real possiblity.
> >
> >   Google
> >
> >   > > now has a very slick interface for newsgroup reading and
> >
> >   responding.
> >
> >   > > It's not quite as customized as Yahoo groups, but its fast,
>
> its
>
> >   free
> >
> >   > > and there are no ads whatever.
> >   > >
> >   > > See an example of this: http://groups.google.com/groups?
> >   > > hl=en&group=rec.photo.digital  (if this link doesn't work
>
> because
>
> >   > > it's on two lines, go to google groups and enter
> >
> >   rec.photo.digital in
> >
> >   > > the search box).
> >   > >
> >   > > Finally, a member of the Nikon D1 Users forum contacted me and
> >   > > expressed and interest in helping us start one from
>
> scratch "I
>
> >   have
> >
> >   > > the server, the knowledge, and the connection. What I need is
> >
> >   time to
> >
> >   > > manage it. If you want to co-host it, we could probably put
>
> this
>
> >   > > together ourselves."
> >   > >
> >   > > I don't know if we have anyone here who has the time to step
>
> up
>
> >   and
> >
> >   > > manage a forum (I don't even know how much time it would
>
> take). I
>
> >   > > assume this is not the case or we wouldn't be in Yahoo now???
> >   > >
> >   > > There is one other option. It has been mentioned on the list.
>
> That
>
> >   > > would be to pay Yahoo not to be in an ad environment. I
>
> haven't
>
> >   > > checked out this cost. I would be willing to contribute to
>
> it, but
>
> >   > > this is probably something that would be "safer" for the list
>
> to
>
> >   be
> >
> >   > > in some corporate hands. Maybe we should/could approach Epson
>
> or
>
> >   and
> >
> >   > > ink or paper manufacturer to buy sponsorships?
> >   > >
> >   > > Well... looking forward to feedback and new direction... if
>
> any...
>
> >   > > Tom O'Connell
> >   > > TomOC@y...
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files,
>
> Bookmarks,
>
> >   Polls and
> >
> >   > other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >   > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >   > >
> >   > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> >   > > - Include your full name with your message.
> >   > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> >   > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier
> >
> >   messages to keep
> >
> >   > them short.
> >   >
> >   > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the
>
> subject
>
> >   header.
> >
> >   > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks
> >
> >   or "flames."
> >
> >   > > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> >   > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and
>
> the
>
> >   various
> >
> >   > resources on the homepage.
> >   >
> >   > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >
> >   http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >               ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks,
>
> Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page
>
> is at:
> >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> >   Please follow these basic guidelines:
> >   - Include your full name with your message.
> >   - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> >   - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier
>
> messages to keep them short.
>
> >   - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
>
> header.
>
> >   - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks
>
> or "flames."
>
> >   - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> >   - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
>
> various resources on the homepage.
>
> >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>
> Service.
>
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short. - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the
> subject header. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal
> attacks or "flames." - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/