Digital BW, The Print

Eric, 
You can believe what you want to believe, but opinion is not fact. 
My statement must not be taken out of context or twisting my words into what you want for your purposes, whatever they may be does not work.  Read what I say, not what you want to read into it.

My motto is "Keep Implimenting Simple Solutions."  

 I said, "You can always get the detail in the area _you want_ with correct exposure.  In RAW, you can get more than you can use in Lightroom or Print."  And BOTH sentences apply to what I said.

You can make your print to show more detail in the highlights or in the shadow areas as you have it ALL....  I've never had a shot where the highlights were blocked in RAW, because I learned how to expose correctly in 1936, and became a professional in 1942.

With RAW in Lightroom, you have more data than you can Print.
If in doubt in questionable situations, bracket and you have even more than you ever need to make any Print You Want.  

Some people attempt to make photography sound much more difficult than necessary.  I taught 4H Clubs and Scouts photography for decades, in a manner which made it easy.   With one lesson a week, in 4-6 weeks they were developing their own film. Composing images better.  Making prints which were better than many amateurs who had been taking pictures for decades.

When you can get more detail in RAW, than JPG which is the only thing you can compare it with in Digital and this is a forum discussing Digital BW, not film, which we all know is not comparable.  You can make a better PRINT, than you can with JPG which in its very nature deletes detail.... Then proper post processing can produce the range of zones you want to include, to show all important detail.  


You said, "garbage is still garbage" is true.  EVEN with perfect exposures, technical ability does not equate to creativity.

Photographers take pictures. 
Artists create the Image in their mind, and complete it in a Darkroom or  Photoshop.

When attending Ansel Adams seminars he said,
"Over 80 percent of my images are created in the darkroom." --  Ansel Adams

"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs." -- Ansel Adams

 Ye Ol' Codger    Bob


From: E.Neilsen <e.neilsen2@...>

To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, November 15, 2009 7:07:38 PM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: photos by Jean-Michel Berts

  
Ye Old Codger, Your opening statement is provocative  but so very close to
false as to be incorrect. RAW does not give you anything. It is a file
format of the exposure and if your exposure is crap so will the file be. A
bad exposure is a bad exposure. It is true more can be done with it, but
garbage is still garbage.  We can all agree that,  intent and vision,  pre
and post exposure control, are important to good imagery. Lightroom can not
create detail where there is none, even though it can reveal some that might
otherwise be lost. 

Lightroom is but one of many RAW processors, and much like Kodak, Agfa,
Ansco, Fuji et la are to the aqueous based images; a means to an end that
has certain predispositions to that end. Full toned images are not so much
flat as expanded to a point that much more is visible producing lower
localized contrast throughout the entire image. 

Eric Neilsen

Eric Neilsen Photography

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