Digital BW, The Print

On Aug 21, 2010, at 1:02 PM, hjswim2@... wrote:

> Harald Johnson
> 
> P.S. There is a workaround for the Z3100, and I'm asking the inventor of 
> the application in Barcelona to clarify. If there is any interest or response 
> here, I'll try to twist his arm to come on and explain.

On Aug 21, 2010, at 1:34 PM, C D Tobie wrote:

>>> How about making it work on an Epson?
> 
> HP has no possible justification for that. HP's wide format team in Barcelona has shown some interest in B&W specialty processes over the years. We have not seen that kind of response from Epson.  In fact, reduced sales to the photo market have left the printer manufacturers looking to increase sales in other areas instead of photo printing, so we may see less, not more, development in our area in the near future. If this type of process is to run on Epson printers, it would have to be third party developers who move it along; and since it uses OEM ink, the only third parties who might find it valuable would be RIP developers. Also, since it requires driver development, RIP developers are the only ones who would have the needed control.   
> 
> C. David Tobie
> Global Product Technology Manager
> Digital Imaging and Home Theater
> Datacolor inc. 
> cdtobie@...
> www.datacolor.com
> 
> On Aug 21, 2010, at 1:04 PM, Mark Savoia <mark@stillrivereditions.com> wrote:
> 
>> How about making it work on an Epson?
>

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Mark Savoia 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 12:11 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] HP Large Format Photo Negatives


    
  Huh?

  Mark
  http://www.stillrivereditions.com

  On Aug 21, 2010, at 1:59 PM, CorrPro96@... wrote:

  > Hi Mark:
  > 
  > First, you've got to get ANYTHING to work with or on Epson, since they've 
  > cut all the other providers off.
  > .... and I'm still running 3 of 'em.
  > 
  > Rich 
  > _www.rmassiephotography.com_ (http://www.rmassiephotography.com) 

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CorrPro96@...
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 1:04 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] HP Large Format Photo Negatives


  


In a message dated 8/21/2010 2:59:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
mrjimbo@... <mailto:mrjimbo%40wispwest.net>  writes:

I think what was meant was that Epson has shot down pretty much all third 
party development that deviates from their seemingly self focused master 
plan. 
I.E. ...No true RIPS for the 9900...right? Pro Printers are really not 
user serviceable anymore. Planned obsolescence..

jimbo

Exactly. ImagePrint...StudioPrint...Bowhaus.... alternate inksets.... 
Piezography in particular. 
If it ain't Epson, it ain't gonna go into an Epson, or work with an 
Epson.... and Epson won't even give us matte AND Photo black alternating in a 
printer after they removed it from the 4000. Epson has been at war with it's 
customers since.

Rich
_www.rmassiephotography.com_ (http://www.rmassiephotography.com) 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Aug 21, 2010, at 11:02 AM, hjswim2@... wrote:

> If you haven't heard, HP recently announced the "Large Format Photo
> Negatives" application for printing LF digital negatives and then  
> using that neg
> for Alt Process (UV-based only) traditional (hand-made) prints.  
> Basically,
> it's a free paper preset download for Z3200 (only) that defines the  
> ink
> separation into mostly Green and some Black inks (only those two).

>
> Maybe time for the DOJ to get involved. They are investigating Apple for their practices which are less draconian than Epson. If you remember HP came unstuck with their toner policy. Years ago they fought like heck to not allow 3rd party toners and lost.
>  
> Maybe if we have a large enough groundswell someone might take notice
>  
> Mike
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CorrPro96@...
> Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 1:04 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] HP Large Format Photo Negatives
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> In a message dated 8/21/2010 2:59:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
> mrjimbo@... <mailto:mrjimbo%40wispwest.net>  writes:
> 
> I think what was meant was that Epson has shot down pretty much all third 
> party development that deviates from their seemingly self focused master 
> plan. 
> I.E. ...No true RIPS for the 9900...right? Pro Printers are really not 
> user serviceable anymore. Planned obsolescence..
> 
> jimbo
> 
> Exactly. ImagePrint...StudioPrint...Bowhaus.... alternate inksets.... 
> Piezography in particular. 
> If it ain't Epson, it ain't gonna go into an Epson, or work with an 
> Epson.... and Epson won't even give us matte AND Photo black alternating in a 
> printer after they removed it from the 4000. Epson has been at war with it's 
> customers since.
> 
> Rich
> _www.rmassiephotography.com_ (http://www.rmassiephotography.com) 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of C D Tobie
Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2010 12:35 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] HP Large Format Photo Negatives

 

  

>>How about making it work on an Epson?

HP has no possible justification for that. HP's wide format team in
Barcelona has shown some interest in B&W specialty processes over the years.
We have not seen that kind of response from Epson. In fact, reduced sales to
the photo market have left the printer manufacturers looking to increase
sales in other areas instead of photo printing, so we may see less, not
more, development in our area in the near future. If this type of process is
to run on Epson printers, it would have to be third party developers who
move it along; and since it uses OEM ink, the only third parties who might
find it valuable would be RIP developers. Also, since it requires driver
development, RIP developers are the only ones who would have the needed
control. 

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging and Home Theater
Datacolor inc. 
cdtobie@... <mailto:cdtobie%40datacolor.com> 
www.datacolor.com

On Aug 21, 2010, at 1:04 PM, Mark Savoia <mark@...
<mailto:mark%40stillrivereditions.com> > wrote:

> How about making it work on an Epson?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
hjswim2@...
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:57 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

 

  

ERIC says, in part: < ... If ever there is a case of teach a man to fish 
it's with making digital
negatives. Since the many of the processes used are UV in nature and that 
is
not a fixed source for many, the starting point can not be a plug and play
for many. Everything that the light passes through will effect the process
so having a preset seems a bit like being lock into certain conditions to
me. .... >

I don't agree with your conclusion. One has to pick a "paper preset" before 
printing anyway as part of the normal workflow. This preset is a "paper 
definition" (or "type") that tells the printer how to handle the ink
separation 
(how many drops of what color) for the medium (paper) being used. Using 
your analogy model, without this new paper definition you'd be trying to
teach 
a man to fish who doesn't know where the fish are, or that they even live in

water because he's standing in a desert and doesn't know where the water 
is. The chances of him catching a fish would be slim indeed. The paper
preset 
gives him the fishing line and hook and points him to the closest river.

And if you have not downloaded and read the PDF Guide that comes with this 
paper package file, I suggest you do (it's live on the HP site). It's 33 
pages and the scope is pretty amazing with links for more information. This 
process has been invented by a single passionate photographer who loves 
photography and wants to help other photographers. I know the guy, and he
doesn't 
want to force anybody to do anything. But let's be realistic: He uses HP 
printers (he's an HP engineer, for goodness sake!), so that's his working 
platform. But his goal was to create a tool that helps photographers produce
the 
highest-quality digital negatives (and thereby alterntive process prints) 
with the least amount of pain. Maybe he'll join the discussion.

H

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
hjswim2@...
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:57 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

 

  

ERIC says, in part: < ... If ever there is a case of teach a man to fish 
it's with making digital
negatives. Since the many of the processes used are UV in nature and that 
is
not a fixed source for many, the starting point can not be a plug and play
for many. Everything that the light passes through will effect the process
so having a preset seems a bit like being lock into certain conditions to
me. .... >

I don't agree with your conclusion. One has to pick a "paper preset" before 
printing anyway as part of the normal workflow. This preset is a "paper 
definition" (or "type") that tells the printer how to handle the ink
separation 
(how many drops of what color) for the medium (paper) being used. Using 
your analogy model, without this new paper definition you'd be trying to
teach 
a man to fish who doesn't know where the fish are, or that they even live in

water because he's standing in a desert and doesn't know where the water 
is. The chances of him catching a fish would be slim indeed. The paper
preset 
gives him the fishing line and hook and points him to the closest river.

And if you have not downloaded and read the PDF Guide that comes with this 
paper package file, I suggest you do (it's live on the HP site). It's 33 
pages and the scope is pretty amazing with links for more information. This 
process has been invented by a single passionate photographer who loves 
photography and wants to help other photographers. I know the guy, and he
doesn't 
want to force anybody to do anything. But let's be realistic: He uses HP 
printers (he's an HP engineer, for goodness sake!), so that's his working 
platform. But his goal was to create a tool that helps photographers produce
the 
highest-quality digital negatives (and thereby alterntive process prints) 
with the least amount of pain. Maybe he'll join the discussion.

H

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
hjswim2@...
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:57 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

 

  

ERIC says, in part: < ... If ever there is a case of teach a man to fish 
it's with making digital
negatives. Since the many of the processes used are UV in nature and that 
is
not a fixed source for many, the starting point can not be a plug and play
for many. Everything that the light passes through will effect the process
so having a preset seems a bit like being lock into certain conditions to
me. .... >

I don't agree with your conclusion. One has to pick a "paper preset" before 
printing anyway as part of the normal workflow. This preset is a "paper 
definition" (or "type") that tells the printer how to handle the ink
separation 
(how many drops of what color) for the medium (paper) being used. Using 
your analogy model, without this new paper definition you'd be trying to
teach 
a man to fish who doesn't know where the fish are, or that they even live in

water because he's standing in a desert and doesn't know where the water 
is. The chances of him catching a fish would be slim indeed. The paper
preset 
gives him the fishing line and hook and points him to the closest river.

And if you have not downloaded and read the PDF Guide that comes with this 
paper package file, I suggest you do (it's live on the HP site). It's 33 
pages and the scope is pretty amazing with links for more information. This 
process has been invented by a single passionate photographer who loves 
photography and wants to help other photographers. I know the guy, and he
doesn't 
want to force anybody to do anything. But let's be realistic: He uses HP 
printers (he's an HP engineer, for goodness sake!), so that's his working 
platform. But his goal was to create a tool that helps photographers produce
the 
highest-quality digital negatives (and thereby alterntive process prints) 
with the least amount of pain. Maybe he'll join the discussion.

H

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: E.Neilsen 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 3:10 PM
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives


    
  Perhaps, I have misunderstood the information that I read already on the
  process. If it is just a media preset, so one doesn't over ink a substrate
  that is one thing right. But if it is a targeted color conversion from a B&W
  or color file, will it only work on an HP printer with a specific media? I
  suppose it might be in the interpretation of the term preset. 

  I look forward to reading the 33 pages. 

  Eric Neilsen

  Eric Neilsen Photography

  4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

  Dallas, TX 75226

  www.ericneilsenphotography.com

  skype me with ejprinter

  www.ericneilsenphotography.com/forum1

  Let's Talk Photography

  _____ 

  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
  hjswim2@...
  Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:57 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

  ERIC says, in part: < ... If ever there is a case of teach a man to fish 
  it's with making digital
  negatives. Since the many of the processes used are UV in nature and that 
  is
  not a fixed source for many, the starting point can not be a plug and play
  for many. Everything that the light passes through will effect the process
  so having a preset seems a bit like being lock into certain conditions to
  me. .... >

  I don't agree with your conclusion. One has to pick a "paper preset" before 
  printing anyway as part of the normal workflow. This preset is a "paper 
  definition" (or "type") that tells the printer how to handle the ink
  separation 
  (how many drops of what color) for the medium (paper) being used. Using 
  your analogy model, without this new paper definition you'd be trying to
  teach 
  a man to fish who doesn't know where the fish are, or that they even live in

  water because he's standing in a desert and doesn't know where the water 
  is. The chances of him catching a fish would be slim indeed. The paper
  preset 
  gives him the fishing line and hook and points him to the closest river.

  And if you have not downloaded and read the PDF Guide that comes with this 
  paper package file, I suggest you do (it's live on the HP site). It's 33 
  pages and the scope is pretty amazing with links for more information. This 
  process has been invented by a single passionate photographer who loves 
  photography and wants to help other photographers. I know the guy, and he
  doesn't 
  want to force anybody to do anything. But let's be realistic: He uses HP 
  printers (he's an HP engineer, for goodness sake!), so that's his working 
  platform. But his goal was to create a tool that helps photographers produce
  the 
  highest-quality digital negatives (and thereby alterntive process prints) 
  with the least amount of pain. Maybe he'll join the discussion.

  H

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> Eric
> This is my guess...When the newer printers are printing B&W versus color they are able to select a specific segment of the color pallet available in the form of only using certain channels. I actually find that intriguing.. So in the case the preset apparently is using only the black and green channels. 
> This preset will not likely be of any use on any other printers as it is merely a variant of the BE&WE preset that HP is using to print BE&WE images.. 
> On the plus side with a RIP and an Epson that can be ran by one the message to me is that it could be developed.. No clue however what lives in that remark.
> Personally I think HP did a good job making the box bigger with this. Their materials are still being used which clearly benefits them ...However they are making an effort to broaden the use ...which I feel they have done..  Personal I think it is a great idea.
> 
> jimbo
>

>
> As for me, I would utilize it extensively on my 3100ps if workaround is available.  J Vee
> 
> On Aug 21, 2010, at 12:51 PM, CorrPro96@... wrote:
> 
> > 
> > In a message dated 8/21/2010 1:02:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
> > hjswim2@... writes:
> > 
> > P.S. There is a workaround for the Z3100, and I'm asking the inventor of 
> > the application in Barcelona to clarify. If there is any interest or 
> > response 
> > here, I'll try to twist his arm to come on and explain.
> > 
> > I would be very interested in this for my Z3100.
> > 
> > Rich
> > _www.rmassiephotography.com_ (http://www.rmassiephotography.com) 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
convincingblack
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 3:47 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

 

  


Hi all,

My name is Angel. I work for HP as a colour scientist and I have devised the
solution for the HP Z3200 printers that allows the users the creation of
digital negatives to make prints with alternative processes.

Harald told me about his forum, but right now, I'm out of home/office with
very restricted access to the internet. Here you have two links to some
entries answering similar questions that you made about HP Large Format
Negatives in HybridPhoto forum.

Thanks a lot for your interest. 
I'll connect again from time to time when I get back.

Angel Albarran

http://hybridphoto.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15208#post15208
http://hybridphoto.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15234#post15234





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Eric Neilsen 
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 12:55 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives


  
And how are those green negs printing for regular silver printing? 

Eric Neilsen

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214-827-8301

<http://ericneilsenphotography.com/forum1> Let's Talk Photography

www.ericneilsenphotography.com

SKYPE ejprinter

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
convincingblack
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 3:47 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

Hi all,

My name is Angel. I work for HP as a colour scientist and I have devised the
solution for the HP Z3200 printers that allows the users the creation of
digital negatives to make prints with alternative processes.

Harald told me about his forum, but right now, I'm out of home/office with
very restricted access to the internet. Here you have two links to some
entries answering similar questions that you made about HP Large Format
Negatives in HybridPhoto forum.

Thanks a lot for your interest. 
I'll connect again from time to time when I get back.

Angel Albarran

http://hybridphoto.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15208#post15208
http://hybridphoto.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15234#post15234

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Un Globe
Trotteur
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 2:50 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

 

  

Eric, I have been able using my program to generate green negs to use with
Silver. I am not sure though it is what the HP is for. from what I am
reading it is more for palladium.

PO
http://www.PierreOlivierTavernier.com

From: Eric Neilsen 
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 12:55 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>  
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

And how are those green negs printing for regular silver printing? 

Eric Neilsen

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214-827-8301

<http://ericneilsenphotography.com/forum1> Let's Talk Photography

www.ericneilsenphotography.com

SKYPE ejprinter

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
convincingblack
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 3:47 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

Hi all,

My name is Angel. I work for HP as a colour scientist and I have devised the
solution for the HP Z3200 printers that allows the users the creation of
digital negatives to make prints with alternative processes.

Harald told me about his forum, but right now, I'm out of home/office with
very restricted access to the internet. Here you have two links to some
entries answering similar questions that you made about HP Large Format
Negatives in HybridPhoto forum.

Thanks a lot for your interest. 
I'll connect again from time to time when I get back.

Angel Albarran

http://hybridphoto.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15208#post15208
http://hybridphoto.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15234#post15234

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: E.Neilsen 
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 10:36 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives


  
Pierre, What I am getting at, is whether or not the green only negs work
well with silver, without extraordinary steps. I have been quite happy with
my digital negs going from PT/PD process to silver gelatin with a simple
change of media; PT/PD coated paper to silver gelatin. no multiple
developers, no new curve just pick up and print. Do your same negs work well
with silver and your alternative process without new curves? 

Eric Neilsen

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

www.ericneilsenphotography.com

skype me with ejprinter

www.ericneilsenphotography.com/forum1

Let's Talk Photography

_____ 

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Un Globe
Trotteur
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 2:50 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

Eric, I have been able using my program to generate green negs to use with
Silver. I am not sure though it is what the HP is for. from what I am
reading it is more for palladium.

PO
http://www.PierreOlivierTavernier.com

From: Eric Neilsen 
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 12:55 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

And how are those green negs printing for regular silver printing? 

Eric Neilsen

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214-827-8301

<http://ericneilsenphotography.com/forum1> Let's Talk Photography

www.ericneilsenphotography.com

SKYPE ejprinter

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
convincingblack
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 3:47 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

Hi all,

My name is Angel. I work for HP as a colour scientist and I have devised the
solution for the HP Z3200 printers that allows the users the creation of
digital negatives to make prints with alternative processes.

Harald told me about his forum, but right now, I'm out of home/office with
very restricted access to the internet. Here you have two links to some
entries answering similar questions that you made about HP Large Format
Negatives in HybridPhoto forum.

Thanks a lot for your interest. 
I'll connect again from time to time when I get back.

Angel Albarran

http://hybridphoto.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15208#post15208
http://hybridphoto.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15234#post15234

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: E.Neilsen 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 8:36 PM
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives


    
  Pierre, What I am getting at, is whether or not the green only negs work
  well with silver, without extraordinary steps. I have been quite happy with
  my digital negs going from PT/PD process to silver gelatin with a simple
  change of media; PT/PD coated paper to silver gelatin. no multiple
  developers, no new curve just pick up and print. Do your same negs work well
  with silver and your alternative process without new curves? 

  Eric Neilsen

  Eric Neilsen Photography

  4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

  Dallas, TX 75226

  www.ericneilsenphotography.com

  skype me with ejprinter

  www.ericneilsenphotography.com/forum1

  Let's Talk Photography

  _____ 

  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Un Globe
  Trotteur
  Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 2:50 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

  Eric, I have been able using my program to generate green negs to use with
  Silver. I am not sure though it is what the HP is for. from what I am
  reading it is more for palladium.

  PO
  http://www.PierreOlivierTavernier.com

  From: Eric Neilsen 
  Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 12:55 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

  And how are those green negs printing for regular silver printing? 

  Eric Neilsen

  4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

  Dallas, TX 75226

  214-827-8301

  <http://ericneilsenphotography.com/forum1> Let's Talk Photography

  www.ericneilsenphotography.com

  SKYPE ejprinter

  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
  [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
  convincingblack
  Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 3:47 AM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

  Hi all,

  My name is Angel. I work for HP as a colour scientist and I have devised the
  solution for the HP Z3200 printers that allows the users the creation of
  digital negatives to make prints with alternative processes.

  Harald told me about his forum, but right now, I'm out of home/office with
  very restricted access to the internet. Here you have two links to some
  entries answering similar questions that you made about HP Large Format
  Negatives in HybridPhoto forum.

  Thanks a lot for your interest. 
  I'll connect again from time to time when I get back.

  Angel Albarran

  http://hybridphoto.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15208#post15208
  http://hybridphoto.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15234#post15234

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Un Globe
Trotteur
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 6:43 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

 

  

Eric, I do not think the green negs made with the HP printer will work with
Silver. When I use my program and generate a green neg ( they are usually
orange looking), they have been calibrated for my light source and my photo
paper. The only thing in common with the HP for calibration would be the ink
and substrate.
If I use Fiber paper instead of RC, the time exposure will be different. So,
how with the HP negs, can they find that out?
I think they use UV light with a predefined exposure time only for
palladium.

I just love the marriage between analog and digital. I still shoot film
(mainly the new kodak ektar 100), have it scanned at Walmart at 300 dpi on
their fuji frontier. (amazing quality). Then I manipulate the image if I
need too and convert it to B&W using my program.
Create my inkjet neg and process in my darkroom. I now use powder chemicals
to last longer.
The output just blow your mind. Exactly what I had on my screen. My fiber
prints are amazing.
PS: I do not want to start a thread of the advantages of ink print vs
darkroom print. This is only my preference and I am not trying to convince
anybody...

Sincerely,
Pierre
http://www.PierreOlivierTavernier.com

From: E.Neilsen 
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 10:36 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>  
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

Pierre, What I am getting at, is whether or not the green only negs work
well with silver, without extraordinary steps. I have been quite happy with
my digital negs going from PT/PD process to silver gelatin with a simple
change of media; PT/PD coated paper to silver gelatin. no multiple
developers, no new curve just pick up and print. Do your same negs work well
with silver and your alternative process without new curves? 

Eric Neilsen

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

www.ericneilsenphotography.com

skype me with ejprinter

www.ericneilsenphotography.com/forum1

Let's Talk Photography

_____ 

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Un
Globe
Trotteur
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 2:50 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

Eric, I have been able using my program to generate green negs to use with
Silver. I am not sure though it is what the HP is for. from what I am
reading it is more for palladium.

PO
http://www.PierreOlivierTavernier.com

From: Eric Neilsen 
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 12:55 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

And how are those green negs printing for regular silver printing? 

Eric Neilsen

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214-827-8301

<http://ericneilsenphotography.com/forum1> Let's Talk Photography

www.ericneilsenphotography.com

SKYPE ejprinter

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
convincingblack
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 3:47 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

Hi all,

My name is Angel. I work for HP as a colour scientist and I have devised the
solution for the HP Z3200 printers that allows the users the creation of
digital negatives to make prints with alternative processes.

Harald told me about his forum, but right now, I'm out of home/office with
very restricted access to the internet. Here you have two links to some
entries answering similar questions that you made about HP Large Format
Negatives in HybridPhoto forum.

Thanks a lot for your interest. 
I'll connect again from time to time when I get back.

Angel Albarran

http://hybridphoto.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15208#post15208
http://hybridphoto.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15234#post15234

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mrjimbo
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 9:13 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

 

  

Eric,
Right now lets have my comments be thoughts only as I'm not far enough along
with the "Green" negs but I'm in it now up to my neck that's for sure..
I feel the green is significant only in respect to how it functions with UV
light.. conventional negs work with visible light so shades of black are
probably just fine I would think..
I have two printers I'm playing with... an Epson 4800 and a Canon IPF 9000
but presently I'm mostly focused on the 4800.. What I'm noticing is that the
greens seem to have a better level of shaded transparency then does just
black inks.. Probably due to the pigments used.. I started out with just
Black and cyan on the 4800 but since have really changed the recipe.. I'm
using all three blacks both cyan's and yellow in a B&W environment in Studio
Print using only 6 shades in the 8 shade environment.. I have yellow as
shade 3 and have adjusted the densities of the cyan's to get me to what is a
shade of green that blends visually quite well with the blacks.. I'm still
tinkering with the mix but think I'm about as far as I should go with this
concept ..so I need to try it and see what I get.. The negs look quite good
to my inexperienced eye. So we'll see. Anyway for conventional silver prints
using visible light as a the light source I don't think green would matter..
but it would be easy to validate that simply by making a neg both ways and
see what results came out the other end.

jimbo





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: E.Neilsen 
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 12:25 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives


  
Pierre, It sounds like you do not do pt/pd printing then. ("I think they use
UV light with a predefined exposure time only for palladium." - Yes to UV
light, predefined exposure -- somewhat so) So your green negs are just for
your silver printing. Are those on a graded paper? 

Eric Neilsen

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

www.ericneilsenphotography.com

skype me with ejprinter

www.ericneilsenphotography.com/forum1

Let's Talk Photography

_____ 

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Un Globe
Trotteur
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 6:43 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

Eric, I do not think the green negs made with the HP printer will work with
Silver. When I use my program and generate a green neg ( they are usually
orange looking), they have been calibrated for my light source and my photo
paper. The only thing in common with the HP for calibration would be the ink
and substrate.
If I use Fiber paper instead of RC, the time exposure will be different. So,
how with the HP negs, can they find that out?
I think they use UV light with a predefined exposure time only for
palladium.

I just love the marriage between analog and digital. I still shoot film
(mainly the new kodak ektar 100), have it scanned at Walmart at 300 dpi on
their fuji frontier. (amazing quality). Then I manipulate the image if I
need too and convert it to B&W using my program.
Create my inkjet neg and process in my darkroom. I now use powder chemicals
to last longer.
The output just blow your mind. Exactly what I had on my screen. My fiber
prints are amazing.
PS: I do not want to start a thread of the advantages of ink print vs
darkroom print. This is only my preference and I am not trying to convince
anybody...

Sincerely,
Pierre
http://www.PierreOlivierTavernier.com

From: E.Neilsen 
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 10:36 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

Pierre, What I am getting at, is whether or not the green only negs work
well with silver, without extraordinary steps. I have been quite happy with
my digital negs going from PT/PD process to silver gelatin with a simple
change of media; PT/PD coated paper to silver gelatin. no multiple
developers, no new curve just pick up and print. Do your same negs work well
with silver and your alternative process without new curves? 

Eric Neilsen

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

www.ericneilsenphotography.com

skype me with ejprinter

www.ericneilsenphotography.com/forum1

Let's Talk Photography

_____ 

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Un
Globe
Trotteur
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 2:50 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

Eric, I have been able using my program to generate green negs to use with
Silver. I am not sure though it is what the HP is for. from what I am
reading it is more for palladium.

PO
http://www.PierreOlivierTavernier.com

From: Eric Neilsen 
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2010 12:55 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

And how are those green negs printing for regular silver printing? 

Eric Neilsen

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214-827-8301

<http://ericneilsenphotography.com/forum1> Let's Talk Photography

www.ericneilsenphotography.com

SKYPE ejprinter

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
convincingblack
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 3:47 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> 
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

Hi all,

My name is Angel. I work for HP as a colour scientist and I have devised the
solution for the HP Z3200 printers that allows the users the creation of
digital negatives to make prints with alternative processes.

Harald told me about his forum, but right now, I'm out of home/office with
very restricted access to the internet. Here you have two links to some
entries answering similar questions that you made about HP Large Format
Negatives in HybridPhoto forum.

Thanks a lot for your interest. 
I'll connect again from time to time when I get back.

Angel Albarran

http://hybridphoto.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15208#post15208
http://hybridphoto.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15234#post15234

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: E.Neilsen 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 10:40 AM
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives


    
  Jimbo, The color of the light is quite important in silver printing. Multi
  contrast papers react quite differently to different color light. Graded
  paper also can change based on color of negative; see pyro. The addition of
  multi contrast printing a while back in silver gelatin printing was a great
  advantage to photographers that chose to alter local contrast in the
  darkroom during printing rather than through the use of colored filters
  while shooting and film and developer combinations during process. Green
  light produces flat prints, while blue increases contrast. ( Magenta (high)
  and Yellow (low) in opposite terms of light). 

  Eric Neilsen

  Eric Neilsen Photography

  4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

  Dallas, TX 75226

  www.ericneilsenphotography.com

  skype me with ejprinter

  www.ericneilsenphotography.com/forum1

  Let's Talk Photography

  _____ 

  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mrjimbo
  Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 9:13 AM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

  Eric,
  Right now lets have my comments be thoughts only as I'm not far enough along
  with the "Green" negs but I'm in it now up to my neck that's for sure..
  I feel the green is significant only in respect to how it functions with UV
  light.. conventional negs work with visible light so shades of black are
  probably just fine I would think..
  I have two printers I'm playing with... an Epson 4800 and a Canon IPF 9000
  but presently I'm mostly focused on the 4800.. What I'm noticing is that the
  greens seem to have a better level of shaded transparency then does just
  black inks.. Probably due to the pigments used.. I started out with just
  Black and cyan on the 4800 but since have really changed the recipe.. I'm
  using all three blacks both cyan's and yellow in a B&W environment in Studio
  Print using only 6 shades in the 8 shade environment.. I have yellow as
  shade 3 and have adjusted the densities of the cyan's to get me to what is a
  shade of green that blends visually quite well with the blacks.. I'm still
  tinkering with the mix but think I'm about as far as I should go with this
  concept ..so I need to try it and see what I get.. The negs look quite good
  to my inexperienced eye. So we'll see. Anyway for conventional silver prints
  using visible light as a the light source I don't think green would matter..
  but it would be easy to validate that simply by making a neg both ways and
  see what results came out the other end.

  jimbo

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Un Globe
Trotteur
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 1:18 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

 

  

Yes Eric, I only do silver. I mainly use Ilford Multigrade RC & FB IV paper.
Sincerely,






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: E.Neilsen 
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 7:24 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives


  
Then do you make a neg that looks green or orange / red? And when you
expose the paper to light, you are using your enlarger with what if any
filters? 

Eric Neilsen

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

www.ericneilsenphotography.com

skype me with ejprinter

www.ericneilsenphotography.com/forum1

Let's Talk Photography

_____ 

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Un Globe
Trotteur
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 1:18 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

Yes Eric, I only do silver. I mainly use Ilford Multigrade RC & FB IV paper.
Sincerely,

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-----Original Message-----
From: mrjimbo <mrjimbo@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, Sep 5, 2010 1:29 pm
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives


  
    
                  
Hi Eric,
Thanks .. I do under stand that to a degree but certainly not to your skill level (which I highly respect).. It's been years since I've used my dark room.  My focus is not on silver printing but rather the P&P prints which uses a UV light source.. In my situation I feel a real fit for that. 
So I have been feeding my head with everything P&P... I don't have an HP Z 3200 but for many reasons have decided that it's time to raise the bar on printing on clear or opaque material's as I already do a fair amount of that. So for me this in an all around fit I think.. Presently I'm seriously fooling with my 4800 and a RIP to make what I'm hoping is a proper negative.. I have 4 workups that I feel are worthy now.. one in particular is looking quite good I think but it is quite a ways away from what I thought I'd be doing.. Actually I'm a bit confused.. a recent post indicated a orange cast to the negs which of course shouldn't be possible using the HP with Black and Green inks. But that is , I think, his work up for a silver print using a regular color printer..( I honestly don't know) ...Anyway Black and Epsons Cyan are just tooooo blue. So I'm trying to make a neg that looks more traditional to me.. but uses green (which I'm getting from cyan and yellow inks) ... I'm probably at the point that I need to try it before wasting any more time. I'm sure I'll be pulling my hair out after that. \
I've fooled around before using K6 inks but the level of transparency possible to allow light to pass thru is much better with color inks I think..  I'm just playing but am serious about it.. I'm excited about the destination but am still learning about the ride if that makes any sense.. Ignorance is bliss right...?

jimbo
 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: E.Neilsen 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 10:40 AM
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

Jimbo, The color of the light is quite important in silver printing. Multi
  contrast papers react quite differently to different color light. Graded
  paper also can change based on color of negative; see pyro. The addition of
  multi contrast printing a while back in silver gelatin printing was a great
  advantage to photographers that chose to alter local contrast in the
  darkroom during printing rather than through the use of colored filters
  while shooting and film and developer combinations during process. Green
  light produces flat prints, while blue increases contrast. ( Magenta (high)
  and Yellow (low) in opposite terms of light). 

Eric Neilsen

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

www.ericneilsenphotography.com

skype me with ejprinter

www.ericneilsenphotography.com/forum1

Let's Talk Photography

_____ 

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mrjimbo
  Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 9:13 AM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

Eric,
  Right now lets have my comments be thoughts only as I'm not far enough along
  with the "Green" negs but I'm in it now up to my neck that's for sure..
  I feel the green is significant only in respect to how it functions with UV
  light.. conventional negs work with visible light so shades of black are
  probably just fine I would think..
  I have two printers I'm playing with... an Epson 4800 and a Canon IPF 9000
  but presently I'm mostly focused on the 4800.. What I'm noticing is that the
  greens seem to have a better level of shaded transparency then does just
  black inks.. Probably due to the pigments used.. I started out with just
  Black and cyan on the 4800 but since have really changed the recipe.. I'm
  using all three blacks both cyan's and yellow in a B&W environment in Studio
  Print using only 6 shades in the 8 shade environment.. I have yellow as
  shade 3 and have adjusted the densities of the cyan's to get me to what is a
  shade of green that blends visually quite well with the blacks.. I'm still
  tinkering with the mix but think I'm about as far as I should go with this
  concept ..so I need to try it and see what I get.. The negs look quite good
  to my inexperienced eye. So we'll see. Anyway for conventional silver prints
  using visible light as a the light source I don't think green would matter..
  but it would be easy to validate that simply by making a neg both ways and
  see what results came out the other end.

jimbo

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


    
             

  
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Mark Nelson 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 1:48 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives


    
  You might want to check out my eBook on this topic. I discuss the issues about different color inks and how to find which works best. Green isn't always best in a lot of cases—even when using UV processes: www.PrecisionDigitalNegatives.com

  Best Wishes,

  Mark Nelson

  www.PrecisionDigitalNegatives.com
  www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com
  PDNPrintForum @ Yahoo Groups/

  -----Original Message-----
  From: mrjimbo <mrjimbo@...>
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Sun, Sep 5, 2010 1:29 pm
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

  Hi Eric,
  Thanks .. I do under stand that to a degree but certainly not to your skill level (which I highly respect).. It's been years since I've used my dark room. My focus is not on silver printing but rather the P&P prints which uses a UV light source.. In my situation I feel a real fit for that. 
  So I have been feeding my head with everything P&P... I don't have an HP Z 3200 but for many reasons have decided that it's time to raise the bar on printing on clear or opaque material's as I already do a fair amount of that. So for me this in an all around fit I think.. Presently I'm seriously fooling with my 4800 and a RIP to make what I'm hoping is a proper negative.. I have 4 workups that I feel are worthy now.. one in particular is looking quite good I think but it is quite a ways away from what I thought I'd be doing.. Actually I'm a bit confused.. a recent post indicated a orange cast to the negs which of course shouldn't be possible using the HP with Black and Green inks. But that is , I think, his work up for a silver print using a regular color printer..( I honestly don't know) ...Anyway Black and Epsons Cyan are just tooooo blue. So I'm trying to make a neg that looks more traditional to me.. but uses green (which I'm getting from cyan and yellow inks) ... I'm probably at the point that I need to try it before wasting any more time. I'm sure I'll be pulling my hair out after that. \
  I've fooled around before using K6 inks but the level of transparency possible to allow light to pass thru is much better with color inks I think.. I'm just playing but am serious about it.. I'm excited about the destination but am still learning about the ride if that makes any sense.. Ignorance is bliss right...?

  jimbo

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: E.Neilsen 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 10:40 AM
  Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

  Jimbo, The color of the light is quite important in silver printing. Multi
  contrast papers react quite differently to different color light. Graded
  paper also can change based on color of negative; see pyro. The addition of
  multi contrast printing a while back in silver gelatin printing was a great
  advantage to photographers that chose to alter local contrast in the
  darkroom during printing rather than through the use of colored filters
  while shooting and film and developer combinations during process. Green
  light produces flat prints, while blue increases contrast. ( Magenta (high)
  and Yellow (low) in opposite terms of light). 

  Eric Neilsen

  Eric Neilsen Photography

  4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

  Dallas, TX 75226

  www.ericneilsenphotography.com

  skype me with ejprinter

  www.ericneilsenphotography.com/forum1

  Let's Talk Photography

  _____ 

  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mrjimbo
  Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 9:13 AM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: HP Large Format Photo Negatives

  Eric,
  Right now lets have my comments be thoughts only as I'm not far enough along
  with the "Green" negs but I'm in it now up to my neck that's for sure..
  I feel the green is significant only in respect to how it functions with UV
  light.. conventional negs work with visible light so shades of black are
  probably just fine I would think..
  I have two printers I'm playing with... an Epson 4800 and a Canon IPF 9000
  but presently I'm mostly focused on the 4800.. What I'm noticing is that the
  greens seem to have a better level of shaded transparency then does just
  black inks.. Probably due to the pigments used.. I started out with just
  Black and cyan on the 4800 but since have really changed the recipe.. I'm
  using all three blacks both cyan's and yellow in a B&W environment in Studio
  Print using only 6 shades in the 8 shade environment.. I have yellow as
  shade 3 and have adjusted the densities of the cyan's to get me to what is a
  shade of green that blends visually quite well with the blacks.. I'm still
  tinkering with the mix but think I'm about as far as I should go with this
  concept ..so I need to try it and see what I get.. The negs look quite good
  to my inexperienced eye. So we'll see. Anyway for conventional silver prints
  using visible light as a the light source I don't think green would matter..
  but it would be easy to validate that simply by making a neg both ways and
  see what results came out the other end.

  jimbo

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