Digital BW, The Print

Dear Friends,

After many months of reading the very interesting posts on this listserv, I have dipped my toe into the digital B&W waters by buying the ink and paper needed for using the MIS EZ B&W on an Epson C88+ printer -- on my G5 Mac running 10.5.8 (Leopard?).  I purchased both MIS Premier Art matte paper and the Costco glossy paper -- and the MIS inks for Warm prints (including Eboni Black, Photo Black, Cyan, Magenta and Yellow position inks).

I have been reading Paul Roark's excellent guidance -- but I am still confused how to get this to work on my Mac G5 10.5.8 ... either using iPhoto or Photoshop Elements Version 3 for Macs.

Any recipes you have for Epson printer settings on a Mac to use the MIS EZ B&W system (Epson 88+)-- especially for matte -- would be much appreciated.  And any other recipes and advice you have for getting good results on my system would be much appreciated as it seems that Mr. Roark's gamma and other advice (which I am sure is excellent)  would be challenging to implement as my printer options using the Epson software on my Mac seem different than the printer options the wonderful Mr. Roark sees on his Windows machine.

And thank you Mr. Roark -- your advice and posts have encouraged me to take this adventure into B&W ... unfortunately I seem to need some help to get it right.

Thank you all for your patience with this newbie.

Best regards,
Bobby

"Robert" <bobbylipman@...> wrote:
>
> ... G5 Mac running 10.5.8 ... Photoshop Elements Version 3 for Macs.
> 

Does Epson have a driver for your computer?  I'd be sure I had the actual driver first.  

I'm not a Mac guy, but what I've seen with Windows machines is that often they have a generic or other driver that is automatically loaded when the computer detects the printer, but it's not the full Epson driver. 

So, if you are not using a driver that you loaded from an Epson disc or downloaded from Epson, that would be the first step I'd take.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Hi Paul,

As best I can tell, Epson provides a driver for the computer and printer and that was downloaded.  I am getting very poor quality prints (no blacks, few details, etc.) and the printer's warning lights are complaining that the inks are non-Epson.  Any advice would me much appreciated from you or Mac users or others.

Best,
Bobby



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...> wrote:

>
> "Robert" <bobbylipman@> wrote:
> >
> > ... G5 Mac running 10.5.8 ... Photoshop Elements Version 3 for Macs.
> > 
> 
> Does Epson have a driver for your computer?  I'd be sure I had the actual driver first.  
> 
> I'm not a Mac guy, but what I've seen with Windows machines is that often they have a generic or other driver that is automatically loaded when the computer detects the printer, but it's not the full Epson driver. 
> 
> So, if you are not using a driver that you loaded from an Epson disc or downloaded from Epson, that would be the first step I'd take.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

"Robert" <bobbylipman@...> wrote:
>
> As best I can tell, Epson provides a driver for the computer and printer and that was downloaded.  

Does the driver have the "Color Controls" and "ICM" "No Color Adjustment" options?


>I am getting very poor quality prints (no blacks, few details, etc.) 

Is the nozzle check perfect?

> and the printer's warning lights are complaining that the inks are non-Epson.

Usually what I see with non-epson carts is an initial warning that you just ignore.  If lights are flashing, the printers usually don't work at all.  That is usually when there is a bad chip or connection to the chip.

> Any advice would me much appreciated from you or Mac users or others.

I'm Windows, so Macs might react differently to the various problems.  However, over the years it seems once you get to a full Epson driver, most things are the same.  At one point, however, the "color controls" of the Mac drivers had somewhat different characteristics than they did with Windows.  As such, ICCs made for "color controls" in Windows were off a bit when used with Macs.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 


>

Dear Paul R.,

I guess I owe you a dinner next time you are near Washington, DC!

Once I overcame some user stupidity (it helps to remove the vent plug from the MIS cartridge!) and figured out both how to use the ICCs you generously shared with the rest of us and to find/install the right driver for my Mac G5 running Leopard OS X 10.5 (non-Intel), I quickly started getting prints I was very happy with.  MIS Premier Art Matte BW Paper was used.  While the print quality I am getting probably reflects that I am at the earliest "newbie" stage, at least I am getting decent prints from the Epson C88+ -- and I am therefore very grateful to you.  (Note:  For Mac users, I was able to apply Paul's ICC through the "devices" option in the "ColorSync" utility in the "Utilities" folder under "Applications."  I put the ICCs in the place suggested by Paul in the zip file linked to Paul's paper posted on the Internet entitled "Epson C88+ Dilute Eboni Carbon -13.5% ("C13-5")" dated 4-18-08.  Also in Photoshop Elements 3.0 for Macs, in the print dialog box there is a "Show More Options" check box which, if checked, reveals a "Color Management" menu where you can select Paul's ICC under the "Print Space" menu and then select "Perceptual" in the "Intent" menu.) In the "Color Settings" option in Photoshop Elements, the selection used was "No Color Management." -- I welcome any suggestions from anyone for improving my choices!  This newbie needs all the help he can get!).

Paul, the offer for dinner (or lunch or breakfast or coffee) is good -- whenever you get to the Washington, D.C. area.  Just let me know.  Again, I am very grateful for your generosity in sharing your very considerable knowledge.

Best,
Bobby






--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...> wrote:

>
> "Robert" <bobbylipman@> wrote:
> >
> > As best I can tell, Epson provides a driver for the computer and printer and that was downloaded.  
> 
> Does the driver have the "Color Controls" and "ICM" "No Color Adjustment" options?
> 
> 
> >I am getting very poor quality prints (no blacks, few details, etc.) 
> 
> Is the nozzle check perfect?
> 
> > and the printer's warning lights are complaining that the inks are non-Epson.
> 
> Usually what I see with non-epson carts is an initial warning that you just ignore.  If lights are flashing, the printers usually don't work at all.  That is usually when there is a bad chip or connection to the chip.
> 
> > Any advice would me much appreciated from you or Mac users or others.
> 
> I'm Windows, so Macs might react differently to the various problems.  However, over the years it seems once you get to a full Epson driver, most things are the same.  At one point, however, the "color controls" of the Mac drivers had somewhat different characteristics than they did with Windows.  As such, ICCs made for "color controls" in Windows were off a bit when used with Macs.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 
> >
>

"Robert" <bobbylipman@...> wrote:
>
> ...I quickly started getting prints I was very happy with. ...

I'm glad the C88 "EZ" approach is working for you.  The C88+ "EZ" inkset approach (one K and 3 identical midtones) is just that -- very easy.  With only 2 inks to maintain, one of which can be user mixed 13.5% Eboni, this system is probably the cheapest and easiest road to good B&W.  I use it for my kids at college for that reason.

(By the way, the reason for the "13.5%" dilution for the midtone Eboni is simply to allow people to buy off the shelf Eboni-6 M and LC bottles and mix them together to make the Eboni "EZ" dilution.  Home mixing of the C6 version does not need to have 3-place accuracy.)

One question I've had for a while is whether there is any interest in taking this approach to 13" wide paper with the Epson Workforce 1100.  That printer appears to combine the C88 three midtone approach with a dual K for very fast text printing.  It could make the cheapest and easiest 13" B&W system, with MIS having existing inks available for matte and glossy, neutral to sepia.

Let me know your thoughts.  It would probably be easy to do this.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

I'm looking for an expensive printer to use in a part-time NYC apartment. I have two 3800's at home in Austin (one with Piezpgraphy inks) but having a simple setup while I'm in the Big Apple could be nice. Please tell more more about how this might work.

David Keenan
www.dlkphotography.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...> wrote:

>
> 
> "Robert" <bobbylipman@> wrote:
> >
> > ...I quickly started getting prints I was very happy with. ...
> 
> I'm glad the C88 "EZ" approach is working for you.  The C88+ "EZ" inkset approach (one K and 3 identical midtones) is just that -- very easy.  With only 2 inks to maintain, one of which can be user mixed 13.5% Eboni, this system is probably the cheapest and easiest road to good B&W.  I use it for my kids at college for that reason.
> 
> (By the way, the reason for the "13.5%" dilution for the midtone Eboni is simply to allow people to buy off the shelf Eboni-6 M and LC bottles and mix them together to make the Eboni "EZ" dilution.  Home mixing of the C6 version does not need to have 3-place accuracy.)
> 
> One question I've had for a while is whether there is any interest in taking this approach to 13" wide paper with the Epson Workforce 1100.  That printer appears to combine the C88 three midtone approach with a dual K for very fast text printing.  It could make the cheapest and easiest 13" B&W system, with MIS having existing inks available for matte and glossy, neutral to sepia.
> 
> Let me know your thoughts.  It would probably be easy to do this.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

David Keenan wrote:

> I'm looking for an expensive printer

I suspect you meant "inexpensive" printer.  

> to use in a part-time NYC apartment. I have two 3800's at home in Austin (one with Piezpgraphy inks) but having a simple setup while I'm in the Big Apple could be nice. Please tell more more about how this might work.


I think the Epson Workforce 1100 is similar to the C88 in that it is basically a quad (no light inks) printer.  What it adds is a second K channel for very fast text printing, and most importantly, it can take 13" paper.  I've never used one, but the C88+ line is one of the longest-lived series and, I believe, for a very good reason -- it's cheap, simple, easy to maintain and does the job quite well.  So, if the 1100 is, in effect, a 13" version of the C88, then it might be a good solution for those who don't want the hassle of dealing with 6 different inks.

How the C88 "EZ" B&W system works is that there is a single midtone ink that is put into all 3 midtone positions.  This means that there are only 2 inks to deal with.

To make things even easier -- like for my kids in college -- I use a cheap ($50) SuperJetUSA CIS.  This gives them enough ink to get through the entire year of college with never having to deal with a single ink change.

MIS makes (per my old design dating back to the C82) a neutral (blended carbon + color) midtone that can be used for glossy or matte, depending on the K used.  MIS also sells a "warm" EZ midtone.  This is the 100% carbon MIS ink that is glossy compatible.  It prints sepia on glossy papers.  For near neutral to medium warm matte printing, I recommend Eboni/Carbon-6.  I mix Carbon-6 with my C6b base and 13.5% Eboni MK.  (See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Ink-Mixing.pdf and http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/C88-C13-5.pdf)  MIS does not sell this blend directly, but the way one gets to it is to buy MIS Eboni-6 LC and M and mix the 2 bottles together.

With the Eboni/Carbon-6 blend my experience is that the midtones will virtually never clog.  The Eboni MK will clog to the same extent that most commercial ink do, but this is usually not a problem.  If one uses the Eb/C-6 option with a CIS, the CIS needs to be agitated periodically, but that is easy.

One could also set up a C88 or 1100 with a partitioned inkset.  This would be slightly smoother and might have the advantage for me that the 2% Eboni ink could be used heavily, making more neutral 100% carbon prints.  I have not tested this, but I suspect the delta-Lab-b with Epson Hot Press might be just slightly above 1 unit -- barely perceptible.

At any rate, I think the 1100 is an interesting option.  While it's true that we already have the 1400 for 13" paper, the larger drop of the 1100 combined with the 2% might print more neutrally.  The EZ approach would simply be easier.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com