Digital BW, The Print

I thought this was worthy of it's own thread.  Sandy King, a very accomplished carbon transfer printer, among other things, said the following to me about coating an inkjet print with gelatin:

"Peter,

One of the problems with gelatin solutions is that a large number of bubbles are created as you spread it on a paper. One way to get around this is to first spread the gelatin solution on the print, and then use a threaded coating rod, heated to 150F-170F, and roll it over the coating. The rod will push bubbles and debris to the side, leaving you with a perfectly even surface.

I would suggest a gelatin solution of about 5%, and a formed rod that will leave a wet height coating of about .2 mm. Check out RD Specialities for formed coating rods.

I use a very similar technique for sizing art papers for carbon transfer printing, the only difference is that I use a RD-200 rod that leaves a wet height coating of about .45 mm, and a 7% sizing solution.

The idea of gelatin over the inkjet papers seems nicer, and safer, than other poly type coatings, which may be easier to apply but you can not be as sure as to their long term stability, whereas gelatin is for the ages."

Op 28-12-2010 17:07, Peter schreef:
> I thought this was worthy of it's own thread.  Sandy King, a very
> accomplished carbon transfer printer, among other things, said the
> following to me about coating an inkjet print with gelatin:
>
> "Peter,
>
> One of the problems with gelatin solutions is that a large number of
> bubbles are created as you spread it on a paper. One way to get
> around this is to first spread the gelatin solution on the print, and
> then use a threaded coating rod, heated to 150F-170F, and roll it
> over the coating. The rod will push bubbles and debris to the side,
> leaving you with a perfectly even surface.
>
> I would suggest a gelatin solution of about 5%, and a formed rod that
> will leave a wet height coating of about .2 mm. Check out RD
> Specialities for formed coating rods.
>
> I use a very similar technique for sizing art papers for carbon
> transfer printing, the only difference is that I use a RD-200 rod
> that leaves a wet height coating of about .45 mm, and a 7% sizing
> solution.
>
> The idea of gelatin over the inkjet papers seems nicer, and safer,
> than other poly type coatings, which may be easier to apply but you
> can not be as sure as to their long term stability, whereas gelatin
> is for the ages."

The 2 and 45 mm seem a bit thick to me.

In combination with silver etc that hardens the gelatine. I wonder 
whether it is so nice without that effect: Funghi, bacteria, etc. One 
should look for the right hydrolysis degrees for the gelatines and PVA + 
possibly hardening methods after the application (formaldehyde?). 
Acrylic resins have a good reputation in art conservation. Paul's 
aliphatic polyurethanes were interesting too.



-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst

Try: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |

Note that Sandy recommended a thickness of two tenths of a mm.  Regarding
longevity, carbon transfer printing, a very old means of making photographic
prints, consists of a layer of gelatin with suspended carbon particles on a
substrate.  There are prints made with this process that are well over 100
years old, and they're doing fine.  For info on carbon transfer printing,
see:
http://www.alternativephotography.com/wp/processes/carbon-carbro/the-carbon-transfer-process


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandy is a good friend and a true expert in carbon printing.  His would be good advice.


Best Wishes,


Mark Nelson



www.PrecisionDigitalNegatives.com
www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com
PDNPrintForum @ Yahoo Groups/

-----Original Message-----
From: pdesmidt tds.net <pdesmidt@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, Dec 28, 2010 10:41 am
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Gelatin over-coating of inkjet prints


  
    
                  
Note that Sandy recommended a thickness of two tenths of a mm.  Regarding
longevity, carbon transfer printing, a very old means of making photographic
prints, consists of a layer of gelatin with suspended carbon particles on a
substrate.  There are prints made with this process that are well over 100
years old, and they're doing fine.  For info on carbon transfer printing,
see:
http://www.alternativephotography.com/wp/processes/carbon-carbro/the-carbon-transfer-process

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


    
             

  
 
=


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I do not know the guy directly, but I have read quite a bit from him in the past, when I was researching two-baths development systems. I did not realized he was also an alternative process expert. He must be a phenomenal developer and explorer of new techniques.

I am away from my studio for few days. Before leaving I left four Carbon-Gelatine prints to dry. They are each 22"x30" in size and have been coated without washing the paper (in other words, I coated a dry sheet of paper, rather than wet, as I did until September). I am using four different formulations for the coating.
They were almost dry when I left and three out of them were very promising. The fourth had a rough surface and I did not liked it as much as the other three. This is at the end of about three months of R&D, including building some equipment for the process.

My biggest enemy in gelatine coating since forever has been molding. In  the past, when I was using wet coating methods, it took about three days to air dry the print. Magnani Pescia is a real sponge and where I live the humidity is always in the 70%-80% range. The dry coating takes about half that time. Molding is almost guaranteed in this environment and it requires the addition of an anti-bacterial in the coating. Although there are many such products on the market, my difficulty is to find an archival product, possibly all natural, to be consistent with the archivalness other stuff in the mix. At the moment I am using thymol, a natural disinfectant. It has been quite effective for the last two years. However, its smell last for long time and I found out that it does not protect the print if that is stored in a very humid environment and in the dark. Other product I am still testing are: cloves oil, salicylic acid and methyl-paraben. Most of my techniques are covered in my web site (although it requires a substantial update, including two new portfolios I have been working on since almost two years).  

   Mantinieri

http://www.mantinieri.com

Op 29-12-2010 9:22, Mantinieri schreef:

> My biggest enemy in gelatine coating since forever has been molding.
> In  the past, when I was using wet coating methods, it took about
> three days to air dry the print. Magnani Pescia is a real sponge and
> where I live the humidity is always in the 70%-80% range. The dry
> coating takes about half that time. Molding is almost guaranteed in
> this environment and it requires the addition of an anti-bacterial in
> the coating. Although there are many such products on the market, my
> difficulty is to find an archival product, possibly all natural, to
> be consistent with the archivalness other stuff in the mix. At the
> moment I am using thymol, a natural disinfectant. It has been quite
> effective for the last two years. However, its smell last for long
> time and I found out that it does not protect the print if that is
> stored in a very humid environment and in the dark. Other product I
> am still testing are: cloves oil, salicylic acid and methyl-paraben.
> Most of my techniques are covered in my web site (although it
> requires a substantial update, including two new portfolios I have
> been working on since almost two years).
>
> Mantinieri
>
> http://www.mantinieri.com

The paper base is free from any bacteria, fungi, when you receive it?
Few things in life are actually clean on that level. Providing an
optimal environment and if possibly some food will be enough to grow
colonies. The sizing of the paper could be enough base for food, the 
gelatine forming a Petri dish. Sure it isn't agar but close enough.

Check some ways to disinfect the paper before it is used.  UV from the 
sun, the microwave oven, formaldehyde/methanal gas exposure. Dangerous 
stuff though. I used to soup my B&W photo negs after development in a 
solution of it 40 years ago. Hardens gelatine and cell walls. Never seen 
any fungi, bacteria, destruct them and they were not archived in vaults

-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst

Try: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |

Op 28-12-2010 17:41, pdesmidt tds.net schreef:
> Note that Sandy recommended a thickness of two tenths of a mm.  Regarding
> longevity, carbon transfer printing, a very old means of making photographic
> prints, consists of a layer of gelatin with suspended carbon particles on a
> substrate.  There are prints made with this process that are well over 100
> years old, and they're doing fine.  For info on carbon transfer printing,
> see:
> http://www.alternativephotography.com/wp/processes/carbon-carbro/the-carbon-transfer-process
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

Couldn't see the dots. Hope they use the zero dot transcription at Nasa.

Have you noticed the UV exposure, the dichromate  used? The formaline to 
harden the gelatine?

http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/arts/photography/photproces/alternativephot/processes.htm

Nothing of that kind in inkjet prints. Glycols are there though. There 
could be starch in the paper sizing.  I thought the topic was protection 
of dye inkjet prints with gelatine.

-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst

Try: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |

Thanks for the hints, Ernst. I never thought at that. I will try a UV-C lamp before coating and during drying phase. While the anti-bacterials I have tried until now (no tests with metyl-paraben yet, still on a to-do list) work well in average, they all failed my harshest conservation test. This is a three months storage in a dark area at 80% humidity and no air circulating. Sure not the typical place where you would store fine arts. However, all my prints have failed that test while my silver gelatin prints on Ilford Galerie from the 80's and the 90's survived the test. They must be using some serious poison in their coatings. 

What I usually find at the end of such test is a thin layer of dark green powder that covers the top of the gelatine. After few hours of leaving the print in a dry place, the powder is brushed away easily. The mold was rarely able to penetrate through the gelatine coating which remain almost intact and transparent, showing how powerful gelatine is to protect paper. The only difference with an appropriate stored print is that the coating loses some of its glossy appearance. In some more serious situations, the paper as well caught fungi with no chance to salvage it.

May be I just need to increase the amount of antibacterial in the pot.
I am just scared to do so.

   Mantinieri

 http://www.mantinieri.com

> 
> The paper base is free from any bacteria, fungi, when you receive it?
> Few things in life are actually clean on that level. Providing an
> optimal environment and if possibly some food will be enough to grow
> colonies. The sizing of the paper could be enough base for food, the 
> gelatine forming a Petri dish. Sure it isn't agar but close enough.
> 
> Check some ways to disinfect the paper before it is used.  UV from the 
> sun, the microwave oven, formaldehyde/methanal gas exposure. Dangerous 
> stuff though. I used to soup my B&W photo negs after development in a 
> solution of it 40 years ago. Hardens gelatine and cell walls. Never seen 
> any fungi, bacteria, destruct them and they were not archived in vaults
> 
> -- 
> Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst
> 
> Try: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
> 
> |      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
> |         www.pigment-print.com        |
> |                 ( unvollendet )                 |
>

Phenol and Kathon have been suggested to me a possibly useful anti-mold
agents.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have been using R&D Specialty rods for 37 years - in color proofing. IDENTICOLOR proofs/rubdowns (from film sep line negs) have been produced this way since its inception. We use #11 rods i.e. (SWOP) rods to "drawdown" inks, lacquers and coatings. The number refers to the wire gauge> higher number equals thicker wire. I have never seen a #200 rod - as mentioned earlier. We coat our prints NOT by ROLLING the rod BUT by holding it firmly and pulling it down against the page using ACRYLIC (i.e. UV floor wax). 

dean@colorguys.com 


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "pdesmidt tds.net" <pdesmidt@...> wrote:

>
> Phenol and Kathon have been suggested to me a possibly useful anti-mold
> agents.
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Thanks Peter. 
Phenol is contained in cloves oil. However, I stopped using the latter because it is not recommended by ICA (Intermuseum Conservation Association) Art Conservation. Apparently it turns dark with time. They recommend paraben, instead, which is used in the cosmetics industry. I will test it very soon.
I will do some research on Kathon and, eventually, test it.

   Mantinieri

http://www.mantinieri.com

May I humbly refer you to my personal art website re "carbon" printing equipment and technique under "Traditional --" at www.jvee.com , not my commercial printing site www.jveegraphics.com.   I am a pretty ancient gelatin pigment printer.    J Vee

On Dec 29, 2010, at 2:22 AM, Mantinieri wrote:

> I do not know the guy directly, but I have read quite a bit from him in the past, when I was researching two-baths development systems. I did not realized he was also an alternative process expert. He must be a phenomenal developer and explorer of new techniques.
> 
> I am away from my studio for few days. Before leaving I left four Carbon-Gelatine prints to dry. They are each 22"x30" in size and have been coated without washing the paper (in other words, I coated a dry sheet of paper, rather than wet, as I did until September). I am using four different formulations for the coating.
> They were almost dry when I left and three out of them were very promising. The fourth had a rough surface and I did not liked it as much as the other three. This is at the end of about three months of R&D, including building some equipment for the process.
> 
> My biggest enemy in gelatine coating since forever has been molding. In the past, when I was using wet coating methods, it took about three days to air dry the print. Magnani Pescia is a real sponge and where I live the humidity is always in the 70%-80% range. The dry coating takes about half that time. Molding is almost guaranteed in this environment and it requires the addition of an anti-bacterial in the coating. Although there are many such products on the market, my difficulty is to find an archival product, possibly all natural, to be consistent with the archivalness other stuff in the mix. At the moment I am using thymol, a natural disinfectant. It has been quite effective for the last two years. However, its smell last for long time and I found out that it does not protect the print if that is stored in a very humid environment and in the dark. Other product I am still testing are: cloves oil, salicylic acid and methyl-paraben. Most of my techniques are covered in my web site (although it requires a substantial update, including two new portfolios I have been working on since almost two years). 
> 
> Mantinieri
> 
> http://www.mantinieri.com
> 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A quick tip for drying, is to use a desicant chamber, filled with calcium cloride, or silica gel.

Second tip on anti-fungal, try small amounts of formaldehyde. This will also tend to harden the emulsion.

John Nollendorfs 

> On Dec 29, 2010, at 2:22 AM, Mantinieri wrote:
SNIP

> > I am away from my studio for few days. Before leaving I left four Carbon-Gelatine prints to dry. They are each 22"x30" in size and have been coated without washing the paper (in other words, I coated a dry sheet of paper, rather than wet, as I did until September). I am using four different formulations for the coating.
> > They were almost dry when I left and three out of them were very promising. The fourth had a rough surface and I did not liked it as much as the other three. This is at the end of about three months of R&D, including building some equipment for the process.
> > 
> > My biggest enemy in gelatine coating since forever has been molding. In the past, when I was using wet coating methods, it took about three days to air dry the print. Magnani Pescia is a real sponge and where I live the humidity is always in the 70%-80% range. The dry coating takes about half that time. Molding is almost guaranteed in this environment and it requires the addition of an anti-bacterial in the coating. Although there are many such products on the market, my difficulty is to find an archival product, possibly all natural, to be consistent with the archivalness other stuff in the mix. At the moment I am using thymol, a natural disinfectant. It has been quite effective for the last two years. However, its smell last for long time and I found out that it does not protect the print if that is stored in a very humid environment and in the dark. Other product I am still testing are: cloves oil, salicylic acid and methyl-paraben. Most of my techniques are covered in my web site (although it requires a substantial update, including two new portfolios I have been working on since almost two years). 
> > 
> > Mantinieri

Hello J Vee,

  I enjoyed very much visiting your web site. The photographs are nice and the techniques you implemented are very interesting and well explained. I wish you good luck and success in your art.
Thanks. Ciao,

 Mantinieri

 http://www.mantinieri.com


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, jvee <j_vee@...> wrote:

>
> May I humbly refer you to my personal art website re "carbon" printing equipment and technique under "Traditional --" at www.jvee.com , not my commercial printing site www.jveegraphics.com.   I am a pretty ancient gelatin pigment printer.    J Vee
>

Thanks for the tips, John. I will try them both. 
I will keep researching on antibacterials for gelatine. To my understanding, there are no single chemical able to fight bacteria and fungus at the same time. Furthermore, some are effective in acidic environments while others in alkaline. Probably I need to use at least two products.
Ciao,

 Mantinieri

 http://www.mantinieri.com


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jrnolly@...> wrote:

>
> A quick tip for drying, is to use a desicant chamber, filled with calcium cloride, or silica gel.
> 
> Second tip on anti-fungal, try small amounts of formaldehyde. This will also tend to harden the emulsion.
> 
> John Nollendorfs 
>

I have an X Rite DPT 41 that I used for years with my ColorSpan printer software to create (very successfully) profiles.  Now use z3100ps HP which has hardware and software on board to create profiles.  I have some problems with these profiles and would like to double check them.  Anyone suggest the appropriate software to do this with the DPT 41?  Prefer Mac but can also do Windows software.   J Vee

Take a look at Argyllcms by Graeme Gill.It's open source and works very well.
Regards,
Duane




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, jvee <j_vee@...> wrote:

>
> 
> I have an X Rite DPT 41 that I used for years with my ColorSpan printer software to create (very successfully) profiles.  Now use z3100ps HP which has hardware and software on board to create profiles.  I have some problems with these profiles and would like to double check them.  Anyone suggest the appropriate software to do this with the DPT 41?  Prefer Mac but can also do Windows software.   J Vee
>

I think I've heard of this ..Isn't it command line driven?

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: dlruckus 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 8:35 AM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: DPT 41 Spectrophotometer


    
  Take a look at Argyllcms by Graeme Gill.It's open source and works very well.
  Regards,
  Duane

  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, jvee <j_vee@...> wrote:
  >
  > 
  > I have an X Rite DPT 41 that I used for years with my ColorSpan printer software to create (very successfully) profiles. Now use z3100ps HP which has hardware and software on board to create profiles. I have some problems with these profiles and would like to double check them. Anyone suggest the appropriate software to do this with the DPT 41? Prefer Mac but can also do Windows software. J Vee
  >



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes.It is command line driven but that isn't a big deal.It simply makes it easier to move to different op systems.
If one has trouble remembering all the options, you can just type a command line for whatever in as a bat file and execute that.
It already is set up for a number of spectros including,I believe, the DPT41. Also you can actually use any spectro that can give you a straight text file by feeding a text file of measurements in via redirection.That came in very handy when I wanted to use measurements from a bench top spherical instrument.
For someone wanting software for only sporadic use for testing and verification it also has the fantastic property of being absolutely free;)

Regards,
Duane


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:

>
> I think I've heard of this ..Isn't it command line driven?
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: dlruckus 
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 8:35 AM
>   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: DPT 41 Spectrophotometer
> 
> 
>     
>   Take a look at Argyllcms by Graeme Gill.It's open source and works very well.
>   Regards,
>   Duane
> 
>   --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, jvee <j_vee@> wrote:
>   >
>   > 
>   > I have an X Rite DPT 41 that I used for years with my ColorSpan printer software to create (very successfully) profiles. Now use z3100ps HP which has hardware and software on board to create profiles. I have some problems with these profiles and would like to double check them. Anyone suggest the appropriate software to do this with the DPT 41? Prefer Mac but can also do Windows software. J Vee
>   >
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Forgive me if it came off like I was knocking the package ..not so.. It just doesn't run under a shell. I have a friend that uses it but to be honest it hasn't been brought up in quite a while. It does support both versions of the DTP 41 (T&R) I remember him saying that ..  Correct a freebee is a big deal.. and a great opportunity..
 
j

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: dlruckus 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 5:00 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: DPT 41 Spectrophotometer


    
  Yes.It is command line driven but that isn't a big deal.It simply makes it easier to move to different op systems.
  If one has trouble remembering all the options, you can just type a command line for whatever in as a bat file and execute that.
  It already is set up for a number of spectros including,I believe, the DPT41. Also you can actually use any spectro that can give you a straight text file by feeding a text file of measurements in via redirection.That came in very handy when I wanted to use measurements from a bench top spherical instrument.
  For someone wanting software for only sporadic use for testing and verification it also has the fantastic property of being absolutely free;)

  Regards,
  Duane

  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:
  >
  > I think I've heard of this ..Isn't it command line driven?
  > 
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: dlruckus 
  > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  > Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 8:35 AM
  > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: DPT 41 Spectrophotometer
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > Take a look at Argyllcms by Graeme Gill.It's open source and works very well.
  > Regards,
  > Duane
  > 
  > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, jvee <j_vee@> wrote:
  > >
  > > 
  > > I have an X Rite DPT 41 that I used for years with my ColorSpan printer software to create (very successfully) profiles. Now use z3100ps HP which has hardware and software on board to create profiles. I have some problems with these profiles and would like to double check them. Anyone suggest the appropriate software to do this with the DPT 41? Prefer Mac but can also do Windows software. J Vee
  > >
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi.
Sorry for being so terse.I didn't take your question as a knock at all.Actually I was being paged by my better half at the time and trying to get the message off quickly. 
I don't have anything to do with Argyl other than using it,primarily with a DTP20 pulse spectro, so have no skin in the game beyond being happy it's available.It does seem to have an astounding number of capabilities in the package, most of which I know next to nothing about using.Discussions on it's group are frequently over my head.

Best,
Duane


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:

>
> Forgive me if it came off like I was knocking the package ..not so.. It just doesn't run under a shell. I have a friend that uses it but to be honest it hasn't been brought up in quite a while. It does support both versions of the DTP 41 (T&R) I remember him saying that ..  Correct a freebee is a big deal.. and a great opportunity..
>  
> j
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: dlruckus 
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 5:00 PM
>   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: DPT 41 Spectrophotometer
> 
> 
>     
>   Yes.It is command line driven but that isn't a big deal.It simply makes it easier to move to different op systems.
>   If one has trouble remembering all the options, you can just type a command line for whatever in as a bat file and execute that.
>   It already is set up for a number of spectros including,I believe, the DPT41. Also you can actually use any spectro that can give you a straight text file by feeding a text file of measurements in via redirection.That came in very handy when I wanted to use measurements from a bench top spherical instrument.
>   For someone wanting software for only sporadic use for testing and verification it also has the fantastic property of being absolutely free;)
> 
>   Regards,
>   Duane
> 
>   --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@> wrote:
>   >
>   > I think I've heard of this ..Isn't it command line driven?
>   > 
>   > ----- Original Message ----- 
>   > From: dlruckus 
>   > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
>   > Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 8:35 AM
>   > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: DPT 41 Spectrophotometer
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > Take a look at Argyllcms by Graeme Gill.It's open source and works very well.
>   > Regards,
>   > Duane
>   > 
>   > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, jvee <j_vee@> wrote:
>   > >
>   > > 
>   > > I have an X Rite DPT 41 that I used for years with my ColorSpan printer software to create (very successfully) profiles. Now use z3100ps HP which has hardware and software on board to create profiles. I have some problems with these profiles and would like to double check them. Anyone suggest the appropriate software to do this with the DPT 41? Prefer Mac but can also do Windows software. J Vee
>   > >
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   >
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Duane were fine,
I've never used it nor am I intimate with it.. just am kinda sorta familiar with it as I've heard of it and have a friend that's used it for a while....Actually it is good it was brought up here .. Color management software is expensive. Question ..does it do 16 bit profiles? I honestly don't know..Constructively it may be a good idea to wring the rag out a bit on this if possible.. If theirs a way to get to a quality level of color management for folks without them having to go broke getting there. ..Well then that's a good thing to look at I guess.. 

jimbo

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: dlruckus 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 6:35 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: DPT 41 Spectrophotometer


    
  Hi.
  Sorry for being so terse.I didn't take your question as a knock at all.Actually I was being paged by my better half at the time and trying to get the message off quickly. 
  I don't have anything to do with Argyl other than using it,primarily with a DTP20 pulse spectro, so have no skin in the game beyond being happy it's available.It does seem to have an astounding number of capabilities in the package, most of which I know next to nothing about using.Discussions on it's group are frequently over my head.

  Best,
  Duane

  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:
  >
  > Forgive me if it came off like I was knocking the package ..not so.. It just doesn't run under a shell. I have a friend that uses it but to be honest it hasn't been brought up in quite a while. It does support both versions of the DTP 41 (T&R) I remember him saying that .. Correct a freebee is a big deal.. and a great opportunity..
  > 
  > j
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: dlruckus 
  > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  > Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 5:00 PM
  > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: DPT 41 Spectrophotometer
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > Yes.It is command line driven but that isn't a big deal.It simply makes it easier to move to different op systems.
  > If one has trouble remembering all the options, you can just type a command line for whatever in as a bat file and execute that.
  > It already is set up for a number of spectros including,I believe, the DPT41. Also you can actually use any spectro that can give you a straight text file by feeding a text file of measurements in via redirection.That came in very handy when I wanted to use measurements from a bench top spherical instrument.
  > For someone wanting software for only sporadic use for testing and verification it also has the fantastic property of being absolutely free;)
  > 
  > Regards,
  > Duane
  > 
  > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@> wrote:
  > >
  > > I think I've heard of this ..Isn't it command line driven?
  > > 
  > > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > > From: dlruckus 
  > > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  > > Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 8:35 AM
  > > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: DPT 41 Spectrophotometer
  > > 
  > > 
  > > 
  > > Take a look at Argyllcms by Graeme Gill.It's open source and works very well.
  > > Regards,
  > > Duane
  > > 
  > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, jvee <j_vee@> wrote:
  > > >
  > > > 
  > > > I have an X Rite DPT 41 that I used for years with my ColorSpan printer software to create (very successfully) profiles. Now use z3100ps HP which has hardware and software on board to create profiles. I have some problems with these profiles and would like to double check them. Anyone suggest the appropriate software to do this with the DPT 41? Prefer Mac but can also do Windows software. J Vee
  > > >
  > > 
  > > 
  > > 
  > > 
  > > 
  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > >
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi again Jimbo.
It's my understanding that it does do 16 bit and has for some time.I wouldn't bet the farm on that understanding though as I don't consider Argyl as an area of great competence and experience on my part.It would be much better to go to the source for information.

I've learned how to apply it to my own particular needs by lurking and grasping bits as my, admittedly limited, talents allow.
One of the things I usually do when I find a source for something of interest to me is to start at the beginning and cycle through everything posted while taking from it what I can as I go.That takes a fair amount of time initially but, as I have more time than smarts or available cash, seems a good use of resources for me.I usually reach some sort of an "ah ha!" moment along the way and can draw out just enough to be dangerous to myself :-)

It does allow varied levels of quality from ok to extreme overkill as you choose.Also I will say this, the level of discourse on it's mail list is way up there with math and esoteric (to mortals anyway) color management "Strategery";-)

Personally, I think that almost any viable method of achieving decent profiling for people who don't and probably wouldn't have it because of cost is a very good thing. 

Best,
Duane


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:

>
> Question ..does it do 16 bit profiles? I honestly don't know..Constructively it may be a good idea to wring the rag out a bit on this if possible.. If theirs a way to get to a quality level of color management for folks without them having to go broke getting there. ..Well then that's a good thing to look at I guess.. 
> 
> jimbo
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: dlruckus 
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 6:35 PM
>   Subject: [Digital BW] Re: DPT 41 Spectrophotometer
> 
> 
>     
>   Hi.
>   Sorry for being so terse.I didn't take your question as a knock at all.Actually I was being paged by my better half at the time and trying to get the message off quickly. 
>   I don't have anything to do with Argyl other than using it,primarily with a DTP20 pulse spectro, so have no skin in the game beyond being happy it's available.It does seem to have an astounding number of capabilities in the package, most of which I know next to nothing about using.Discussions on it's group are frequently over my head.
> 
>   Best,
>   Duane

With some HP Z models around I have not made use of the ArgyllCMS 
printer profile features. For the Z3100 I can use APS profile creator 
(two in fact, I should sell one) and it does a good job in my opinion, 
for the Z3200-PS I actually use HP's Color Center which improved much 
compared to the Z3100 CC version. No need for APS there.

On an Ubuntu (Linux) system I use the dispcalGUI interface of ArgyllCMS 
with the HP APS version of the X-rite Display II to calibrate/profile a 
Dell U2311H, ISP panel, monitor and I think it does the best job of all 
monitor calibration/profiling software I have used, Prove It!, Monaco 
Profiler, HP's version of X-Rite's, X-Rite's etc included. If possible I 
would like to use it on the Vista system with the Eye 1 Basic for a Nec 
2690Wuxi, wide gamut. It is a bit irritating that HP APS monitor 
profiling tries to interfere, have to find a method to get that blocked 
while the rest of APS still functions.

BTW, there is a way to bring Z3100 spectro measurements to ArgyllCMS for 
printer profile creation but I have not used that so far.

All in all I think you should consider ArgyllCMS for what you intend to do.


-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst

Try: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |

Thanks Ernst, downloaded it and will try.  Best lead I have.  (J Veenstra)

On Mar 29, 2011, at 5:01 AM, Ernst Dinkla wrote:

> With some HP Z models around I have not made use of the ArgyllCMS 
> printer profile features. For the Z3100 I can use APS profile creator 
> (two in fact, I should sell one) and it does a good job in my opinion, 
> for the Z3200-PS I actually use HP's Color Center which improved much 
> compared to the Z3100 CC version. No need for APS there.
> 
> On an Ubuntu (Linux) system I use the dispcalGUI interface of ArgyllCMS 
> with the HP APS version of the X-rite Display II to calibrate/profile a 
> Dell U2311H, ISP panel, monitor and I think it does the best job of all 
> monitor calibration/profiling software I have used, Prove It!, Monaco 
> Profiler, HP's version of X-Rite's, X-Rite's etc included. If possible I 
> would like to use it on the Vista system with the Eye 1 Basic for a Nec 
> 2690Wuxi, wide gamut. It is a bit irritating that HP APS monitor 
> profiling tries to interfere, have to find a method to get that blocked 
> while the rest of APS still functions.
> 
> BTW, there is a way to bring Z3100 spectro measurements to ArgyllCMS for 
> printer profile creation but I have not used that so far.
> 
> All in all I think you should consider ArgyllCMS for what you intend to do.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst
> 
> Try: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
> 
> |      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
> |         www.pigment-print.com        |
> |                 ( unvollendet )                 |
> 
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