Digital BW, The Print

Does anyone know of an un-coated watercolor paper that is smoother than Arches Hot Press?

Thanks,

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Hi Paul:

I think Rives BFK might fit that description. This is one of the best places to find it:

http://www.dickblick.com/products/rives-printmaking-papers/

All the best,

Andrew
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On Feb 8, 2011, at 11:28 PM, Paul wrote:

> Does anyone know of an un-coated watercolor paper that is smoother than Arches Hot Press?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

BFK has more texture than hot-press Arches Watercolor, but less than cold-press. It does take ink nicely though, for an uncoated paper. I don't think that you will find any *watercolor* paper that is smoother than Arches HP. Perhaps a plate finish drawing bristol such as those from Rising or Strathmore would work if they take ink well. Cranes Cover is very slightly smoother, but doesn't take ink nearly as well in my experience.

~ Keith

Op 9-2-2011 5:28, Paul schreef:
> Does anyone know of an un-coated watercolor paper that is smoother than Arches Hot Press?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>
>

No watercolor but Arches 88 for silkscreen printing is one of the 
smoothest cotton papers. Some Magnani qualities have a similar smoothness.

BTW, Red River Zeppelin SemiGloss 160gsm is a dual sided, dye compatible 
paper. As far as I can judge it, the Tecco EFI Proof 9155 Duo-Semimatte 
170gsm dual sided, dye compatible, is the same paper, weight will be 
somewhere in between.
Is that a Paper you could use for publications etc?


-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst

Try: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
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Ernst Dinkla <edinkla@...> wrote:
>
> ...
> No watercolor but Arches 88 for silkscreen printing is one of the 
> smoothest cotton papers. 

In my tests that paper also had an incredibly neutral tone with the Eboni-6 approach.  The dmax was low, however.

Here's the context of the search.  The local museum I've done the digital restoration for thinks the images ought to be archived on an uncoated paper.  They don't entirely trust either electronic storage or coated papers for very long term storage and retrieval -- who knows when.  So, I'm trying to find the smoothest un-coated paper so that the image and not the texture of the paper is what will be retrieved if the images are actually ever needed.  While smoothness is obviously a primary characteristic, the dynamic range of the paper is also relevant.  The more range (which argues for Arches), the less the paper texture will be exaggerated by any need to increase contrast for subsequent reproduction.  Note that these images would be in mylar sleeves and acid free boxes, so rub-off is not the major issue it is with books.


 
> BTW, Red River Zeppelin SemiGloss 160gsm is a dual sided, 
> dye compatible paper. As far as I can judge it, the Tecco
> EFI Proof 9155 Duo-Semimatte 170gsm dual sided, dye 
> compatible, is the same paper, weight will be 
> somewhere in between.
> Is that a Paper you could use for publications etc?

I'm not sure.  I'll try some of the Red River.  

The reactions I've had from the a couple people making books as, basically, the compilation of their photographic life's work show no interest in the dyes.  The longevity of carbon pigments is important for these book makers. 

For these people the paper issues include rub-off and being able to have the bias of the paper such that the book pages will open easily and appropriately.  A soft paper like H. Photo Rag opens well, but the surface is way too sensitive.  The sizing of Arches eliminates it -- too stiff.  I've also heard the opinion that the inkjet receptor coating on the back of a paper increases the amount of "rub off" (or capture via some other mechanism) of the pigments off the surface of the paper it's pressed against.  (I'm not sure what the mechanism of alleged "attraction" might be.)  

Ideally, a thin, un-coated paper might be best for these book makers also, but finding one that has a good dmax with pigments is going to be a problem.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

From my days of running an Iris printer, I discovered Whatman's Hot Press, a very smooth and slightly soft watercolor paper.

It works quite well with the Epsons.

J.Z.

Hello Paul,

  in my experience, I have never found another watercolor paper, 100% cotton, that comes close to Arches HP in terms of smoothness and D-Max.
Another paper similar to the latter is Strathmore 500 Bristol Plate, but it is not in the watercolor category.

I have the whole Magnani catalogue, including all the hand-made and machine made papers, and none is similar to Arches HP.

Forget Rives BFK. It is one of the worst with pigments. Both in terms of D-Max, dot gain and surface quality.

Ciao,

  Mantinieri

http://www.mantinieri.com


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...> wrote:

>
> Does anyone know of an un-coated watercolor paper that is smoother than Arches Hot Press?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

"Jon" <lotus@...> wrote:
>
> From my days of running an Iris printer, I discovered Whatman's Hot Press, a very smooth and slightly soft watercolor paper.
> 
> It works quite well with the Epsons.


Thanks.  I didn't know Whatman's importance until I Googled it.  They may be out of business.  See http://www.handprint.com/HP/WCL/paper2l.html (Handprint is an outstanding watercolor and general pigment knowledge base, by the way.)

I'll continue to keep my eye out for it.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

"Mantinieri" <mantinieri@...> wrote:
>
>...
> Another paper similar to the latter is Strathmore 500 Bristol Plate, but it is not in the watercolor category.

Thanks, it may be worth a try even though it's not a watercolor paper. 

It's interesting that one article on pen drawings specified Whatman's or Strathmore.  Strathmore is still available here, I'm quite sure.  An artist I worked with liked it and Arches brands the best.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Paul,

I went through my archive of >300 graphic art papers to test my memory.

They are not all in the same category, not all cotton, not all unsized, 
natural and white, drawing papers included, possibly not all made 
anymore as some samples will be 40 years old.

Fabriano Artistico 79 hot pressed 300gsm
Fabriano 5 121 smooth 300gsm
Fabrianp 4 smooth 220gsm
Magnani Incisioni (Leonardo) 220gsm 40% rag
Arches 88 300gsm
Van Gelder Simili Japon (about 220 gsm)
Stonehenge 245 gsm
Mirage 245 gsm (must be an american paper too)

Hahnem\ufffdhle doesn't have it, Zerkall most likely neither, 
Schoellershammer might have one or two, they are great in drawing 
papers. Whether Lana still makes papers in this category isn't clear 
since HM purchased the factory.

After the work done, one wonders whether your museum made the right 
decision given the high quality inkjet papers around, nice test labs 
like Aardenburg, RIT, the Library of Congress facilities etc. Some tear 
and fold tests on papers that were tested well on their paper white by 
Mark and I would think you get your dynamic range, the coating bond and 
paper white and ink consistency in time covered.


-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst

Try: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |