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2011-02-18 by tim_knapik
Hello. What would happen if I were to use an original Claria black ink cartridge and non OEM cartridges in the other 5 positions in an Epson 1400? I only want to print black only with this setup. Thank you. Tim
2011-02-18 by Ernst Dinkla
Op 18-2-2011 15:35, tim_knapik schreef: > Hello. What would happen if I were to use an original Claria black ink cartridge and non OEM cartridges in the other 5 positions in an Epson 1400? I only want to print black only with this setup. Thank you. > > > Tim 3 sheets printing when you want only one? -- Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Try: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/ | Dinkla Grafische Techniek | | www.pigment-print.com | | ( unvollendet ) |
2011-02-18 by tim_knapik
Ah, thanks but not sure what this response means. Tim --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla <edinkla@...> wrote:
> > Op 18-2-2011 15:35, tim_knapik schreef: > > Hello. What would happen if I were to use an original Claria black ink cartridge and non OEM cartridges in the other 5 positions in an Epson 1400? I only want to print black only with this setup. Thank you. > > > > > > Tim > > 3 sheets printing when you want only one? > > > -- > Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst > > Try: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/ > > | Dinkla Grafische Techniek | > | www.pigment-print.com | > | ( unvollendet ) | >
2011-02-18 by Paul
"tim_knapik" <mistylightphotography@...> wrote: > > Hello. What would happen if I were to use an original Claria black ink cartridge and non OEM cartridges in the other 5 positions in an Epson 1400? I only want to print black only with this setup. Thank you. Usually the printer won't print if OEM and third party chips are mixed. I've seen some claim in works on the 1400, but my memory is that mine did not. Claria K without more is greenish on most paper, so I'm not sure that's a great solution. If you have the standard Claria setup in all positions and use QTR you'd be able to use some LM to control the green. Still, black only may not give you the smoothest results. Some of the early work with this that looked so good was very high contrast, hiding most of the Claria BO issues. A full inkset would be much better, but for Claria, this means mixing your own. I've come up with a "simplified" mixing procedure for a generic, full inkset that can control the green tendency on all papers, but I think it's still way too complicated for most to bother with. See the draft at http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/N2.pdf As an alternative, to the above, a simpler 3-level 13% magenta to 87% Noritsu K monotone is probably the way to go. Frankly, I use just a 2-position 13% monotone for glossy (in the Eb4+ setup). Most of the excessively green papers are matte, where I use carbon, not dye. In addition to the problem of mixing, with the Noritsu-Epson (read Claria bulk) approach, one still does have the cost of the 500ml cart at $187, which is a barrier although still much cheaper than the OEM inks in small quantities. The way to avoid the second cart -- magenta -- is to just buy a Claria 1400 magenta cart and pull out the ink. As with all of these user-mixed solutions, the big savings comes from the fact that full inksets are mostly water. So, if one buys the water and mixes the base it's the dilution base and dilute inks were the huge savings are. The net inkset cost is about what you'd expect from MIS bulk ink prices. But if they did it, they'd have to raise the prices much more to make any profit. So, bottom line, there is no easy way for most to get to the good Claria B&W. I'll continue to explore alternatives to open this up to more. Paul www.PaulRoark.com
2011-02-18 by tim_knapik
Thank you Paul. I read your paper, great stuff but wow I thought my head was going to explode. I really like the MIS EZ (I am simple guy) approach with my Epson C88+. I would like to print larger than 8.5x11. Do you think the WorkForce 1100 with MIS EZ inks would be a good choice for me? Thanks again. Tim --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...> wrote:
> > "tim_knapik" <mistylightphotography@> wrote: > > > > Hello. What would happen if I were to use an original Claria black ink cartridge and non OEM cartridges in the other 5 positions in an Epson 1400? I only want to print black only with this setup. Thank you. > > > Usually the printer won't print if OEM and third party chips are mixed. I've seen some claim in works on the 1400, but my memory is that mine did not. > > > Claria K without more is greenish on most paper, so I'm not sure that's a great solution. If you have the standard Claria setup in all positions and use QTR you'd be able to use some LM to control the green. Still, black only may not give you the smoothest results. Some of the early work with this that looked so good was very high contrast, hiding most of the Claria BO issues. > > A full inkset would be much better, but for Claria, this means mixing your own. I've come up with a "simplified" mixing procedure for a generic, full inkset that can control the green tendency on all papers, but I think it's still way too complicated for most to bother with. See the draft at http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/N2.pdf > > As an alternative, to the above, a simpler 3-level 13% magenta to 87% Noritsu K monotone is probably the way to go. Frankly, I use just a 2-position 13% monotone for glossy (in the Eb4+ setup). Most of the excessively green papers are matte, where I use carbon, not dye. > > In addition to the problem of mixing, with the Noritsu-Epson (read Claria bulk) approach, one still does have the cost of the 500ml cart at $187, which is a barrier although still much cheaper than the OEM inks in small quantities. The way to avoid the second cart -- magenta -- is to just buy a Claria 1400 magenta cart and pull out the ink. > > As with all of these user-mixed solutions, the big savings comes from the fact that full inksets are mostly water. So, if one buys the water and mixes the base it's the dilution base and dilute inks were the huge savings are. The net inkset cost is about what you'd expect from MIS bulk ink prices. But if they did it, they'd have to raise the prices much more to make any profit. > > So, bottom line, there is no easy way for most to get to the good Claria B&W. I'll continue to explore alternatives to open this up to more. > > > > Paul > www.PaulRoark.com >
2011-02-18 by Paul
"tim_knapik" <mistylightphotography@...> wrote: > >... Do you think the WorkForce 1100 with MIS EZ inks would be a good choice for me? Thanks again. UT 14 Lc (or any LK density ink) works as an 1100 "EZ" mix. The WF line works better as a matte paper printer than a glossy printer. The ink load if a glossy paper is used will produce a weak dmax (like 1.7) on glossy paper, but otherwise look good. With a matte paper type selected for glossy printing I can control it marginally with curves and ICCs) The WF prints rather light with no profile and UT14 LC (a cool LK) in the midtone spots. I thought this was a major problem until I noticed if I let my overly-bright LCD go to its default position, the light print matches the monitor rather well. The smoothest prints do require an ICC. I start the inks sequentially to do this. So, the ability to load an ICC in the print preview does allow for better printing. With matte paper it makes for very good printing indeed. (I'm waiting for MIS to answer some questions and send an updated UT14 LC to me to check it. I don't know if MIS will load UT14 LC for an 1100 yet.) Paul www.PaulRoark.com
2011-02-18 by tim_knapik
Thanks again Paul. Would you say that a print on matte paper made with the WF 1100 and the MIS EZ(eboni neutral) approach would look like a print made on the C88+ with same MIS EZ ink setup? Tim --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...> wrote:
> > "tim_knapik" <mistylightphotography@> wrote: > > > >... Do you think the WorkForce 1100 with MIS EZ inks would be a good choice for me? Thanks again. > > UT 14 Lc (or any LK density ink) works as an 1100 "EZ" mix. > > The WF line works better as a matte paper printer than a glossy printer. The ink load if a glossy paper is used will produce a weak dmax (like 1.7) on glossy paper, but otherwise look good. With a matte paper type selected for glossy printing I can control it marginally with curves and ICCs) > > The WF prints rather light with no profile and UT14 LC (a cool LK) in the midtone spots. I thought this was a major problem until I noticed if I let my overly-bright LCD go to its default position, the light print matches the monitor rather well. > > The smoothest prints do require an ICC. I start the inks sequentially to do this. So, the ability to load an ICC in the print preview does allow for better printing. With matte paper it makes for very good printing indeed. > > (I'm waiting for MIS to answer some questions and send an updated UT14 LC to me to check it. I don't know if MIS will load UT14 LC for an 1100 yet.) > > Paul > www.PaulRoark.com >
2011-02-18 by Paul
"tim_knapik" <mistylightphotography@...> wrote: > Would you say that a print on matte paper made with the WF 1100 and the MIS EZ(eboni neutral) approach would look like a print made on the C88+ with same MIS EZ ink setup? They would be very similar. They are both cool inks. The old EZ (and all I have is a very old sample) has such a low Lab A that it might look a tad green. The UT14 has a Lab A that is closer to the paper white norm. It then has just a slightly lower Lab B. Side by side you might see that there was a difference, but which is better is probably subjective. Paul www.PaulRoark.com
2011-02-18 by Paul
(Modified post) More on impressions of the 1100: The WF 1100 has been my default printer for several months, and it's impressed me with its practicality. With the Golden Trout Workshop brochure address printing, for example, it did the job far better and faster than the others. It's fast with text, slow with images. The printer may be a good solution where low cost and ease of maintenance are high priorities, and where printing images is not a specialty. Where only one printer will fit, this one can reach the 13" wide, high end B&W quality with a minimum of work and cost. Maintenance is made easy by being able to simply have 2 bottles on the shelf -- one K bottle and one LK bottle. No more inks needed. And the LK density single midtone is totally open source -- MIS, HP, Eboni/Carbon-6 M/LK (18% Eboni). Paul www.PaulRoark.com
2011-02-19 by Paul
At http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Sequential-scan.pdf I show high resolution scans of the light ends of 2 test strips, both printed with the 1100 and UT14-LC inks. All three midtone inks were the same LK density. For easier comparison, I've pasted one scan into the center of the other. These scans show the advantages that can be gained by using an ICC that contains an image adjustment (*.acv) curve that starts the C, M, and Y inks one at the time, or sequentially. When just one ink is used as opposed to 3, I usually see smoother results. I think of it as analogous to partitioning for these "EZ" types of setups where all three of the midtone inks are the same. With this type of profile, the 1100 can produce prints with surprisingly smooth highlights. (The middle values are easy to get smooth with 3 LK inks firing.) Paul www.PaulRoark.com
2011-02-19 by Paul
To see what the "real world" difference would be between starting the inks sequentially and not, I printed 2 versions an image taken with Tech Pan that has a clear blue sky with some haze. One print used the sequential curve, one started all the inks at once. This shot tends to exaggerate rough printing more than any other image I have. The results on Epson Ultra Premium Presentation paper are very close. The highlights of the print that start the inks all at once has a bit more texture in the bright highlights, but it does not give the impression of dots. The highlights are just not totally smooth as they are when the sequential ink starting curve is used. The net result is that most users will be fine with using this 1100 EZ system with no curves or fancy profiles. This allows those who go this direction to use different tone or types of LK to fine tune print tone. For example, if UT14 LC is too cool, put in one position of MIS straight LK -- warm carbon. This system is definitely looking like it'll have a good market. $130 (on sale -- http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/jsp/Product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&sku=C11CA58201) for a single home/office printer that can pump out fine art with a large variety of inks strikes me as a good option for the market. Paul www.PaulRoark.com --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...> wrote:
> > At http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Sequential-scan.pdf I show high resolution scans of the light ends of 2 test strips, both printed with the 1100 and UT14-LC inks. ... > These scans show the advantages that can be gained by using an ICC that contains an image adjustment (*.acv) curve that starts the C, M, and Y inks one at the time, or sequentially. ... smoother results. ...
2011-02-19 by jvee
Does the 1100 have a straight through paper feed option, or the usual thicker paper jamming top feed? Quality and longevity using OEM inks? J Vee On Feb 19, 2011, at 10:15 AM, Paul wrote: > To see what the "real world" difference would be between starting the inks sequentially and not, I printed 2 versions an image taken with Tech Pan that has a clear blue sky with some haze. One print used the sequential curve, one started all the inks at once. This shot tends to exaggerate rough printing more than any other image I have. > > The results on Epson Ultra Premium Presentation paper are very close. The highlights of the print that start the inks all at once has a bit more texture in the bright highlights, but it does not give the impression of dots. The highlights are just not totally smooth as they are when the sequential ink starting curve is used. > > The net result is that most users will be fine with using this 1100 EZ system with no curves or fancy profiles. This allows those who go this direction to use different tone or types of LK to fine tune print tone. For example, if UT14 LC is too cool, put in one position of MIS straight LK -- warm carbon. > > This system is definitely looking like it'll have a good market. $130 (on sale -- http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/jsp/Product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&sku=C11CA58201) for a single home/office printer that can pump out fine art with a large variety of inks strikes me as a good option for the market. > > Paul > www.PaulRoark.com > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...> wrote: > > > > At http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Sequential-scan.pdf I show high resolution scans of the light ends of 2 test strips, both printed with the 1100 and UT14-LC inks. ... > > These scans show the advantages that can be gained by using an ICC that contains an image adjustment (*.acv) curve that starts the C, M, and Y inks one at the time, or sequentially. ... smoother results. ... > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2011-02-20 by Paul
jvee <j_vee@...> wrote: > > Does the 1100 have a straight through paper feed option, or the usual thicker paper jamming top feed? It's the usual style paper feed. 308 HPR does better with a little push. I was surprised at well the feed handled the 2-fold, 3 sheet thick workshop brochures, however. Close to 400 with no jams at all. So, Epson does appear to be getting better with its paper feed mechanisms. > Quality and longevity using OEM inks? They are the Durabright inks -- essentially if not exactly the same as UltraChrome. Paul www.PaulRoark.com