Digital BW, The Print

Just made the switch from UT14 to Eboni-6 on my 1400 and have a few questions. I read Paul's PDF and the read-me files that accompanied his PS and QTR curves, but I'm still a bit confused. In terms of background, I've used UT14 for years with great success (mostly with QTR but sometimes with Photoshop), but was intrigued by the extra smoothness promised by Eboni-6. My 1400 prints a perfect nozzle check, although the Y channel is very faint (see question below on this). I was very careful to ensure I loaded the inks correctly in the carts.

General question 
- I understand the Y position ink is very light, but it is so faint when I do a nozzle check that I'm wondering if there's a clog in the cart. There are no gaps in the pattern when I examine it closely, but is it really so faint as to be barely visible?

Photoshop questions
- Should my images be in RGB or grayscale before applying the PS curve? I'm getting warm, muddy results in both.
- I've had excellent results with UT14 with simply applying Paul's neutral Photoshop curve, but do I need to make an ICC with a partitioning curve to get a decent test pattern with Eboni-6?

QTR questions
- I copied Paul's QTR profiles to the `Quad1400-MIS' folder and was able to open and create curves for all profiles except `Eb6-PaSmBW-qtr2880-lin'. This last curve repeatedly gave me the error message `Invalid linearize curve – not constantly increasing. Curve creation failed.' Thoughts on how to fix this? This paper is probably the one I'll use the most.
- I printed a test pattern on Premier Matte using the Eb6-EpsHPn curve but it was muddy, mottled, and inaccurate (e.g. 60% was darker than 75%). 

Thanks in advance,

Mark

"mccarvill" <mccarvill@...> wrote:
>
> Just made the switch from UT14 to Eboni-6 on my 1400 ...
> My 1400 prints a perfect nozzle check, although the Y channel is very faint ...

> ... so faint when I do a nozzle check that I'm wondering if there's a clog in the cart. There are no gaps in the pattern when I examine it closely, but is it really so faint as to be barely visible?

That's it -- 2% Eboni MK, 98% clear.  It has enough to carry the image through about 25%.  That will be close to the warmest spot on the curve, and the 2% ink is the most neutral on most papers aside from the MK.  So, the lightness was not just for dotless highlights, it's also to hold the image tone to as close to neutral as is possible with dilute inks (meaning smoothness). 

 
> Photoshop questions

> - Should my images be in RGB or grayscale before applying the PS curve?

If you are using the *.acv curves in the PDF, use an Adobe RGB image for the test strip to make an ICC.  When the curves are embedded in the ICC, you'll use a grayscale file to print.

> I'm getting warm, muddy results in both.

Use the ICCs with Epson Hot Press Natural and White, and with Premier Art Smooth BW if you want relatively neutral images.  The PDF has tone graphs -- Lab A and (most important) Lab B -- for the papers.  Most papers print medium warm.  The papers mentioned above are the ones I use for closer to neutral.  Still there will be some rise in Lab B from the paper white.

Be sure to view the prints away from the cold monitor.  When they are matted with natural white mat boards, the images with the above papers will look quite neutral, as long as there is not some brightened, cold white paper or monitor near by.  For the coolest look, use the PA Smooth BW and overmat the image with a natural white board.  That way the coolest and apparently brightest spot will be in the image, not on the border. 

> - I've had excellent results with UT14 with simply applying Paul's neutral Photoshop curve, but do I need to make an ICC with a partitioning curve to get a decent test pattern with Eboni-6?


I like the ICC workflow, and that is most of what is in the Zip file.  I have Eboni-6 loaded in the 1400 now and will be updating some of the profiles, in part because the latest PS and other programs don't allow us to use ICCs with "color controls" set in the driver.

If you or anyone wants papers to be profiled, let me know.

 
> QTR questions
> - I copied Paul's QTR profiles to the `Quad1400-MIS' folder and was able to open and create curves for all profiles except `Eb6-PaSmBW-qtr2880-lin'. This last curve repeatedly gave me the error message `Invalid linearize curve – not constantly increasing. Curve creation failed.'


That profile has too little separation between the deep shadow values.  I'm not sure why it's in the Zip file.  I'm guessing I copied all Eb6 profiles into the file without testing them.  I pulled up the profile and don't like the way it is made.  I mostly made ICCs for this setup, so I'm not really sure where that came from.  I'll redo it and look at the others in the 1400-MIS folder also.


 
> - I printed a test pattern on Premier Matte using the Eb6-EpsHPn curve but it was muddy, mottled, and inaccurate (e.g. 60% was darker than 75%). 

Profiles in QTR are usually very paper specific.  

I'll date and put my name on any new profiles I make -- in the name or notes tab.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

I uploaded some samples to hopefully help diagnose what's going on:

-       QTR ink pattern page

-       21-step RGB gradient printed in Photoshop with no curves

-       21-step gray gradient printed in Photoshop with Paul's QTR
curve

-       21-step gray gradient printed in QTR with Paul's EpsHpn
profile

www.stepwise.ca/Eboni-6_Samples.jpg
<http://www.stepwise.ca/Eboni-6_Samples.jpg>



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mccarvill"
<mccarvill@...> wrote:
>
> Just made the switch from UT14 to Eboni-6 on my 1400 and have a few
questions. I read Paul's PDF and the read-me files that accompanied his
PS and QTR curves, but I'm still a bit confused. In terms of background,
I've used UT14 for years with great success (mostly with QTR but
sometimes with Photoshop), but was intrigued by the extra smoothness
promised by Eboni-6. My 1400 prints a perfect nozzle check, although the
Y channel is very faint (see question below on this). I was very careful
to ensure I loaded the inks correctly in the carts.
>
> General question
> - I understand the Y position ink is very light, but it is so faint
when I do a nozzle check that I'm wondering if there's a clog in the
cart. There are no gaps in the pattern when I examine it closely, but is
it really so faint as to be barely visible?
>
> Photoshop questions
> - Should my images be in RGB or grayscale before applying the PS
curve? I'm getting warm, muddy results in both.
> - I've had excellent results with UT14 with simply applying Paul's
neutral Photoshop curve, but do I need to make an ICC with a
partitioning curve to get a decent test pattern with Eboni-6?
>
> QTR questions
> - I copied Paul's QTR profiles to the `Quad1400-MIS' folder and was
able to open and create curves for all profiles except
`Eb6-PaSmBW-qtr2880-lin'. This last curve repeatedly gave me the error
message `Invalid linearize curve – not constantly increasing. Curve
creation failed.' Thoughts on how to fix this? This paper is probably
the one I'll use the most.
> - I printed a test pattern on Premier Matte using the Eb6-EpsHPn curve
but it was muddy, mottled, and inaccurate (e.g. 60% was darker than
75%).
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Mark
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks so much, Paul. I'll dig into your reply and keep at it. I posted some sample images before I saw your reply.

Mark 


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...> wrote:

>
> "mccarvill" <mccarvill@> wrote:
> >
> > Just made the switch from UT14 to Eboni-6 on my 1400 ...
> > My 1400 prints a perfect nozzle check, although the Y channel is very faint ...
> 
> > ... so faint when I do a nozzle check that I'm wondering if there's a clog in the cart. There are no gaps in the pattern when I examine it closely, but is it really so faint as to be barely visible?
> 
> That's it -- 2% Eboni MK, 98% clear.  It has enough to carry the image through about 25%.  That will be close to the warmest spot on the curve, and the 2% ink is the most neutral on most papers aside from the MK.  So, the lightness was not just for dotless highlights, it's also to hold the image tone to as close to neutral as is possible with dilute inks (meaning smoothness). 
> 
>  
> > Photoshop questions
> 
> > - Should my images be in RGB or grayscale before applying the PS curve?
> 
> If you are using the *.acv curves in the PDF, use an Adobe RGB image for the test strip to make an ICC.  When the curves are embedded in the ICC, you'll use a grayscale file to print.
> 
> > I'm getting warm, muddy results in both.
> 
> Use the ICCs with Epson Hot Press Natural and White, and with Premier Art Smooth BW if you want relatively neutral images.  The PDF has tone graphs -- Lab A and (most important) Lab B -- for the papers.  Most papers print medium warm.  The papers mentioned above are the ones I use for closer to neutral.  Still there will be some rise in Lab B from the paper white.
> 
> Be sure to view the prints away from the cold monitor.  When they are matted with natural white mat boards, the images with the above papers will look quite neutral, as long as there is not some brightened, cold white paper or monitor near by.  For the coolest look, use the PA Smooth BW and overmat the image with a natural white board.  That way the coolest and apparently brightest spot will be in the image, not on the border. 
> 
> > - I've had excellent results with UT14 with simply applying Paul's neutral Photoshop curve, but do I need to make an ICC with a partitioning curve to get a decent test pattern with Eboni-6?
> 
> 
> I like the ICC workflow, and that is most of what is in the Zip file.  I have Eboni-6 loaded in the 1400 now and will be updating some of the profiles, in part because the latest PS and other programs don't allow us to use ICCs with "color controls" set in the driver.
> 
> If you or anyone wants papers to be profiled, let me know.
> 
>  
> > QTR questions
> > - I copied Paul's QTR profiles to the `Quad1400-MIS' folder and was able to open and create curves for all profiles except `Eb6-PaSmBW-qtr2880-lin'. This last curve repeatedly gave me the error message `Invalid linearize curve – not constantly increasing. Curve creation failed.'
> 
> 
> That profile has too little separation between the deep shadow values.  I'm not sure why it's in the Zip file.  I'm guessing I copied all Eb6 profiles into the file without testing them.  I pulled up the profile and don't like the way it is made.  I mostly made ICCs for this setup, so I'm not really sure where that came from.  I'll redo it and look at the others in the 1400-MIS folder also.
> 
> 
>  
> > - I printed a test pattern on Premier Matte using the Eb6-EpsHPn curve but it was muddy, mottled, and inaccurate (e.g. 60% was darker than 75%). 
> 
> Profiles in QTR are usually very paper specific.  
> 
> I'll date and put my name on any new profiles I make -- in the name or notes tab.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1400-Eb6-Profiles.zip has 2 new Premier Art Smooth BW profiles for QTR.  They are essentially equal.  Version b has a higher Eb6-Y ink limit.  (My roll paper needs lower ink limits than the sheets.)

I would delete the old Eb6-PaSmBW-2880qtr profiles from both the Profiles and Quad folders in the QTR folder.  They are not good profiles.

Paul

> If you or anyone wants papers to be profiled, let me know.

Would appreciate an Eboni-6 QTR profile for Moab Entrada fine art natural. I made a test print using your Premier Art Smooth BW  and it was the least warm print so far.

Thanks,

Mark 


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...> wrote:

>
> "mccarvill" <mccarvill@> wrote:
> >
> > Just made the switch from UT14 to Eboni-6 on my 1400 ...
> > My 1400 prints a perfect nozzle check, although the Y channel is very faint ...
> 
> > ... so faint when I do a nozzle check that I'm wondering if there's a clog in the cart. There are no gaps in the pattern when I examine it closely, but is it really so faint as to be barely visible?
> 
> That's it -- 2% Eboni MK, 98% clear.  It has enough to carry the image through about 25%.  That will be close to the warmest spot on the curve, and the 2% ink is the most neutral on most papers aside from the MK.  So, the lightness was not just for dotless highlights, it's also to hold the image tone to as close to neutral as is possible with dilute inks (meaning smoothness). 
> 
>  
> > Photoshop questions
> 
> > - Should my images be in RGB or grayscale before applying the PS curve?
> 
> If you are using the *.acv curves in the PDF, use an Adobe RGB image for the test strip to make an ICC.  When the curves are embedded in the ICC, you'll use a grayscale file to print.
> 
> > I'm getting warm, muddy results in both.
> 
> Use the ICCs with Epson Hot Press Natural and White, and with Premier Art Smooth BW if you want relatively neutral images.  The PDF has tone graphs -- Lab A and (most important) Lab B -- for the papers.  Most papers print medium warm.  The papers mentioned above are the ones I use for closer to neutral.  Still there will be some rise in Lab B from the paper white.
> 
> Be sure to view the prints away from the cold monitor.  When they are matted with natural white mat boards, the images with the above papers will look quite neutral, as long as there is not some brightened, cold white paper or monitor near by.  For the coolest look, use the PA Smooth BW and overmat the image with a natural white board.  That way the coolest and apparently brightest spot will be in the image, not on the border. 
> 
> > - I've had excellent results with UT14 with simply applying Paul's neutral Photoshop curve, but do I need to make an ICC with a partitioning curve to get a decent test pattern with Eboni-6?
> 
> 
> I like the ICC workflow, and that is most of what is in the Zip file.  I have Eboni-6 loaded in the 1400 now and will be updating some of the profiles, in part because the latest PS and other programs don't allow us to use ICCs with "color controls" set in the driver.
> 
> If you or anyone wants papers to be profiled, let me know.
> 
>  
> > QTR questions
> > - I copied Paul's QTR profiles to the `Quad1400-MIS' folder and was able to open and create curves for all profiles except `Eb6-PaSmBW-qtr2880-lin'. This last curve repeatedly gave me the error message `Invalid linearize curve – not constantly increasing. Curve creation failed.'
> 
> 
> That profile has too little separation between the deep shadow values.  I'm not sure why it's in the Zip file.  I'm guessing I copied all Eb6 profiles into the file without testing them.  I pulled up the profile and don't like the way it is made.  I mostly made ICCs for this setup, so I'm not really sure where that came from.  I'll redo it and look at the others in the 1400-MIS folder also.
> 
> 
>  
> > - I printed a test pattern on Premier Matte using the Eb6-EpsHPn curve but it was muddy, mottled, and inaccurate (e.g. 60% was darker than 75%). 
> 
> Profiles in QTR are usually very paper specific.  
> 
> I'll date and put my name on any new profiles I make -- in the name or notes tab.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>