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2012-01-19 by Paul
I have about 1/4 of a pint Eboni dated last August, 2011. Is it ok to use? MIS tells me there's risk of clogging but if stored in a dark cool environment it could last longer. I don't question their comment, it makes sense to me. But I just thought I'd throw in the question here to see what users' experience might be. Thanks! Paul
2012-01-19 by Ernst Dinkla
On 01/19/2012 03:41 AM, Paul wrote: > I have about 1/4 of a pint Eboni dated last August, 2011. Is it ok to use? MIS tells me there's risk of clogging but if stored in a dark cool environment it could last longer. I don't question their comment, it makes sense to me. But I just thought I'd throw in the question here to see what users' experience might be. > > Thanks! > > Paul > > Consider using an ultrasonic cleaner to stir the ink at particles level. An ink bag put in the water filled US cleaner should work too. There are documents describing a similar step in inkjet ink manufacturing. -- Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm | Dinkla Grafische Techniek | | www.pigment-print.com | | ( unvollendet ) |
2012-01-19 by Paul
Thank you, Ernst, I don't have access to an ultrasonic cleaner but I'm interested in your second suggestion. Could you explain a little more about what "an ink bag put in the water filled US cleaner" means? Thanks! Paul --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla <e.dinkla@...> wrote:
> > Consider using an ultrasonic cleaner to stir the ink at particles level. > An ink bag put in the water filled US cleaner should work too. There are > documents describing a similar step in inkjet ink manufacturing. > > -- > Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst > http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm > > | Dinkla Grafische Techniek | > | www.pigment-print.com | > | ( unvollendet ) | >
2012-01-19 by Ernst Dinkla
On 01/19/2012 03:52 PM, Paul wrote: > Thank you, Ernst, > > I don't have access to an ultrasonic cleaner but I'm interested in your second suggestion. Could you explain a little more about what "an ink bag put in the water filled US cleaner" means? Thanks! > > Paul Most ink cartridges have a bag/pouch inside that contains the ink. If you do not want to fill the US container with ink (there are good reasons) then just put the bag in there and fill the rest of the space with water. -- Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm | Dinkla Grafische Techniek | | www.pigment-print.com | | ( unvollendet ) |
2012-01-19 by Paul
Thank you, Ernst, Well, I'm using MIS refillable cartridges, and so there's no bag inside. I guess your suggestion won't work for me! Nevertheless, thank you for the thought... Regards, Paul --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla <e.dinkla@...> wrote:
> > On 01/19/2012 03:52 PM, Paul wrote: > > Thank you, Ernst, > > > > I don't have access to an ultrasonic cleaner but I'm interested in your second suggestion. Could you explain a little more about what "an ink bag put in the water filled US cleaner" means? Thanks! > > > > Paul > > Most ink cartridges have a bag/pouch inside that contains the ink. If > you do not want to fill the US container with ink (there are good > reasons) then just put the bag in there and fill the rest of the space > with water. > > > -- > Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst > http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm > > | Dinkla Grafische Techniek | > | www.pigment-print.com | > | ( unvollendet ) | >
2012-01-19 by mrjimbo
Hey Paul, Here's an optional suggestion.. Ernst.. I hope you read this also.. Their is another option.. I posted it maybe a good year ago and well nobody bit on it.. I think I freaked everyone out.. I honestly do this here and the stuff is still working..( It's used on a 7600 and a 10K) So guys.. I'm serious .. this is not a joke and it sure seems to work really well.. Ok so adult toys.. as in vibrators.. I bought a rig.. that was composed of two vibrating kinda egg things.. The control mechanism would run either or both..and you could dial in how crazy you wanted either of them to run (vibrate).. Originally I used it with batteries but quickly converted it to a small plug in power source.. So here's what I can do.... I can tape or Velcro it to the ink feed lines on a large format printer that isn't used very much ...It sends it little vibrations across the entire set of lines so the inks in the lines stay suspended.. I can take the two eggs and rubber band them to two ink cart's and in less then 20 minutes ( I've been doing this for a while so that's my honest recipe assessment ) their done.. As a note I have an ultrasonic rig complements of my sister in law ( It's a fancy ring cleaner).. My vote goes to this odd quasi adult process. You guys can all laugh if you want to.. I understand.. but I will say I kinda laugh most of the times I use this set up too.. I even have a few customers that have found incredible amusement in my odd ball process.. I'm kinda curious to see if this gets ignored a second time.. oh well....:-) jimbo
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] ok to use expired Eboni?
Thank you, Ernst,
Well, I'm using MIS refillable cartridges, and so there's no bag inside. I guess your suggestion won't work for me! Nevertheless, thank you for the thought...
Regards,
Paul
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla <e.dinkla@...> wrote:
>
> On 01/19/2012 03:52 PM, Paul wrote:
> > Thank you, Ernst,
> >
> > I don't have access to an ultrasonic cleaner but I'm interested in your second suggestion. Could you explain a little more about what "an ink bag put in the water filled US cleaner" means? Thanks!
> >
> > Paul
>
> Most ink cartridges have a bag/pouch inside that contains the ink. If
> you do not want to fill the US container with ink (there are good
> reasons) then just put the bag in there and fill the rest of the space
> with water.
>
>
> --
> Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst
> http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
>
> | Dinkla Grafische Techniek |
> | www.pigment-print.com |
> | ( unvollendet ) |
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2012-01-19 by Paul
That gives me an idea... I use an electric toothbrush every am. I change the brush every 3-4 months. I dug an old one out of the wastebasket... what I trimmed the bristles and used that to stir up the ink? I'd have to be careful not to get carbon ink all over the main unit. But it vibrates something fierce. BTW, what happens if I used this old ink, without stirring? Paul --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:
> > Hey Paul, > Here's an optional suggestion.. Ernst.. I hope you read this also.. Their is another option.. I posted it maybe a good year ago and well nobody bit on it.. I think I freaked everyone out.. I honestly do this here and the stuff is still working..( It's used on a 7600 and a 10K) So guys.. I'm serious .. this is not a joke and it sure seems to work really well.. > Ok so adult toys.. as in vibrators.. I bought a rig.. that was composed of two vibrating kinda egg things.. The control mechanism would run either or both..and you could dial in how crazy you wanted either of them to run (vibrate).. Originally I used it with batteries but quickly converted it to a small plug in power source.. So here's what I can do.... I can tape or Velcro it to the ink feed lines on a large format printer that isn't used very much ...It sends it little vibrations across the entire set of lines so the inks in the lines stay suspended.. I can take the two eggs and rubber band them to two ink cart's and in less then 20 minutes ( I've been doing this for a while so that's my honest recipe assessment ) their done.. As a note I have an ultrasonic rig complements of my sister in law ( It's a fancy ring cleaner).. My vote goes to this odd quasi adult process. You guys can all laugh if you want to.. I understand.. but I will say I kinda laugh most of the times I use this set up too.. I even have a few customers that have found incredible amusement in my odd ball process.. > > I'm kinda curious to see if this gets ignored a second time.. oh well....:-) > > jimbo > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paul > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 2:05 PM > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] ok to use expired Eboni? > > > > Thank you, Ernst, > > Well, I'm using MIS refillable cartridges, and so there's no bag inside. I guess your suggestion won't work for me! Nevertheless, thank you for the thought... > > Regards, > > Paul > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla <e.dinkla@> wrote: > > > > On 01/19/2012 03:52 PM, Paul wrote: > > > Thank you, Ernst, > > > > > > I don't have access to an ultrasonic cleaner but I'm interested in your second suggestion. Could you explain a little more about what "an ink bag put in the water filled US cleaner" means? Thanks! > > > > > > Paul > > > > Most ink cartridges have a bag/pouch inside that contains the ink. If > > you do not want to fill the US container with ink (there are good > > reasons) then just put the bag in there and fill the rest of the space > > with water. > > > > > > -- > > Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst > > http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm > > > > | Dinkla Grafische Techniek | > > | www.pigment-print.com | > > | ( unvollendet ) | > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
2012-01-20 by mrjimbo
Paul, You guys have surely forgotten more then I'll ever know in the printing area.. As far as the tooth brush thing.. All I could see is getting ink in allllllllll the wrong places when you fired it up. Maybe kinda scary.. I think the ink needs to be contained and the container subject to the vibration.. As far as using old ink with out stirring.. If it's settled in my opinion your screwed if you don't get the particles back in suspension properly.. I have a 10k that runs Jons K6 inks.. If it sits for over 2 weeks unused I find I have issues ..Longer then 3... real issues.. When the ink settles all your linearization's are useless.. If you use some amount of the ink in the carts then regardless of what you do the mix is different so your original linearization is off even if you agitate the carts. My nutty shaker solution seems to keep the process on the fence when things are slow so I'll stick to it. I have pulled carts and gently shaken them religiously.. but if we get to vigorous with that we cause other issues. The high frequency vibrations in my opinion is the right answer all the way around.. Ernst suggestion is really the correct way to go.. My offering , is a bit off beat but I find it works.. even though it may not be well received amongst the group.. In my personal experience. The lines hold a lot of ink.. these are subject to settling just like that in the carts.. So if we get the inks in the carts back in suspension and don't deal with the lines I think were kidding ourselves. It has been an honest issue for me.. Like anyone on the group I just try to do my best.. I sort of recall Jon doing a post on one of the blogs.. hopefully I don't blow this.. but my recollection is that if he knows a machine will be idol for 3 weeks he purges it.. Paul as far as old inks.. I'm not a real player here but I have never found ink age to be an issue.. Not one time... If the inks are settled in the cart then that is another deal.. that is a pain.. and the price if over looked will show in the images. I think we can all get that the pigments can and do settle.. jimbo
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] ok to use expired Eboni?
That gives me an idea... I use an electric toothbrush every am. I change the brush every 3-4 months. I dug an old one out of the wastebasket... what I trimmed the bristles and used that to stir up the ink? I'd have to be careful not to get carbon ink all over the main unit. But it vibrates something fierce.
BTW, what happens if I used this old ink, without stirring?
Paul
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:
>
> Hey Paul,
> Here's an optional suggestion.. Ernst.. I hope you read this also.. Their is another option.. I posted it maybe a good year ago and well nobody bit on it.. I think I freaked everyone out.. I honestly do this here and the stuff is still working..( It's used on a 7600 and a 10K) So guys.. I'm serious .. this is not a joke and it sure seems to work really well..
> Ok so adult toys.. as in vibrators.. I bought a rig.. that was composed of two vibrating kinda egg things.. The control mechanism would run either or both..and you could dial in how crazy you wanted either of them to run (vibrate).. Originally I used it with batteries but quickly converted it to a small plug in power source.. So here's what I can do.... I can tape or Velcro it to the ink feed lines on a large format printer that isn't used very much ...It sends it little vibrations across the entire set of lines so the inks in the lines stay suspended.. I can take the two eggs and rubber band them to two ink cart's and in less then 20 minutes ( I've been doing this for a while so that's my honest recipe assessment ) their done.. As a note I have an ultrasonic rig complements of my sister in law ( It's a fancy ring cleaner).. My vote goes to this odd quasi adult process. You guys can all laugh if you want to.. I understand.. but I will say I kinda laugh most of the times I use this set up too.. I even have a few customers that have found incredible amusement in my odd ball process..
>
> I'm kinda curious to see if this gets ignored a second time.. oh well....:-)
>
> jimbo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2012 2:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] ok to use expired Eboni?
>
>
>
> Thank you, Ernst,
>
> Well, I'm using MIS refillable cartridges, and so there's no bag inside. I guess your suggestion won't work for me! Nevertheless, thank you for the thought...
>
> Regards,
>
> Paul
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Ernst Dinkla <e.dinkla@> wrote:
> >
> > On 01/19/2012 03:52 PM, Paul wrote:
> > > Thank you, Ernst,
> > >
> > > I don't have access to an ultrasonic cleaner but I'm interested in your second suggestion. Could you explain a little more about what "an ink bag put in the water filled US cleaner" means? Thanks!
> > >
> > > Paul
> >
> > Most ink cartridges have a bag/pouch inside that contains the ink. If
> > you do not want to fill the US container with ink (there are good
> > reasons) then just put the bag in there and fill the rest of the space
> > with water.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst
> > http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
> >
> > | Dinkla Grafische Techniek |
> > | www.pigment-print.com |
> > | ( unvollendet ) |
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2012-01-20 by Ernst Dinkla
On 01/19/2012 11:27 PM, mrjimbo wrote: > So here's what I can do.... I can tape > or Velcro it to the ink feed lines on a large format printer that > isn't used very much ...It sends it little vibrations across the > entire set of lines so the inks in the lines stay suspended.. I can > take the two eggs and rubber band them to two ink cart's and in less > then 20 minutes ( I've been doing this for a while so that's my > honest recipe assessment ) their done.. Epson should have added that to my 10000, with a choice of ready tones at the end .. -- Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm | Dinkla Grafische Techniek | | www.pigment-print.com | | ( unvollendet ) |
2012-01-20 by Paul
I'm just getting around to reading this thread, some of which I must admit is both amusing and potentially very important.
First, as to old Eboni -- I understand that companies have a financial incentive to have people buy new ink. But, I also think there is truth in what MIS says; there may be a risk of clogging. From what I can tell old inks may tend to clump. ("Floccuation," see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flocculation, is the more technical term.) Keeping the particles separated is mostly done these days with a coating that gives the particles an electrostatic repulsion. I think this coating oxidizes. I've seen old Eboni bottles pull in slightly, as if air is being sucked out of them. I think it is. The coatings (not the carbon) may be oxidizing. This would mean the particles would not have the electrostatic repulsion needed to keep them from clumping.
The second and potentially interesting (as well as amusing) point relates to the vibrators.
"mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:
>
>... adult toys.. as in vibrators..
> I can tape or Velcro it to the ink feed lines on a large format printer that isn't used very much ...It sends it little vibrations across the entire set of lines so the inks in the lines stay suspended...
> I'm kinda curious to see if this gets ignored a second time...
Not by me. I'm sorry I missed it the first time.
I was disappointed when Epson did not address the ink settling issue in the 7800 and newer series of wide format printers via some sort of pulsing of the air and design of the cart so that the inks would be agitated. This vibrator idea may be a route that we can take to do this.
An initial caveat, however, related to the first point of this post. Epson may not want to agitate the inks too much. Their inks are also, I assume, subject to floccuation (clumping) as they get old. So, agitation of new inks, which they recommend, may be safe, whereas agitation of old inks may cause those clumps to rise off the bottom of the cart and into the heads. Zeiss once made the point that all pigment inks have what he called "clunkers" in them -- large particles or clumps -- that are best left to settle. So, the recommendation has been to agitate the inks, but then let them settle for a while before operation of the printer or ink mixing.
The question I'd like to pursue is whether there is a way to use a vibrator to agitate the carts -- with Eboni in wide format carts being my main concern. If there are small vibrators that we could put under the bags in the carts, we might be able to somewhat automate the agitation and avoid having to pull the carts to do this.
So, are there small vibrators? (I'm not sure I want to ask my daughters.) Piezoelectric devices should be able to do this and be small.
Paul
www.PaulRoark.com2012-01-20 by Michael King
Paul,
Just Google "Finger Massager". I bought one some while back for this
purpose. Not sure if it really makes a difference.
Just touch the carts with it one by one - though maybe attaching one to the
lines for a few minutes is an interesting idea as well.
Cheers,
Mike
On 20 January 2012 17:16, Paul <roark.paul@...> wrote:
> **
>
>
> I'm just getting around to reading this thread, some of which I must admit
> is both amusing and potentially very important.
>
> First, as to old Eboni -- I understand that companies have a financial
> incentive to have people buy new ink. But, I also think there is truth in
> what MIS says; there may be a risk of clogging. From what I can tell old
> inks may tend to clump. ("Floccuation," see
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flocculation, is the more technical term.)
> Keeping the particles separated is mostly done these days with a coating
> that gives the particles an electrostatic repulsion. I think this coating
> oxidizes. I've seen old Eboni bottles pull in slightly, as if air is being
> sucked out of them. I think it is. The coatings (not the carbon) may be
> oxidizing. This would mean the particles would not have the electrostatic
> repulsion needed to keep them from clumping.
>
> The second and potentially interesting (as well as amusing) point relates
> to the vibrators.
>
> "mrjimbo" <mrjimbo@...> wrote:
> >
> >... adult toys.. as in vibrators..
> > I can tape or Velcro it to the ink feed lines on a large format printer
> that isn't used very much ...It sends it little vibrations across the
> entire set of lines so the inks in the lines stay suspended...
> > I'm kinda curious to see if this gets ignored a second time...
>
> Not by me. I'm sorry I missed it the first time.
>
> I was disappointed when Epson did not address the ink settling issue in
> the 7800 and newer series of wide format printers via some sort of pulsing
> of the air and design of the cart so that the inks would be agitated. This
> vibrator idea may be a route that we can take to do this.
>
> An initial caveat, however, related to the first point of this post. Epson
> may not want to agitate the inks too much. Their inks are also, I assume,
> subject to floccuation (clumping) as they get old. So, agitation of new
> inks, which they recommend, may be safe, whereas agitation of old inks may
> cause those clumps to rise off the bottom of the cart and into the heads.
> Zeiss once made the point that all pigment inks have what he called
> "clunkers" in them -- large particles or clumps -- that are best left to
> settle. So, the recommendation has been to agitate the inks, but then let
> them settle for a while before operation of the printer or ink mixing.
>
> The question I'd like to pursue is whether there is a way to use a
> vibrator to agitate the carts -- with Eboni in wide format carts being my
> main concern. If there are small vibrators that we could put under the bags
> in the carts, we might be able to somewhat automate the agitation and avoid
> having to pull the carts to do this.
>
> So, are there small vibrators? (I'm not sure I want to ask my daughters.)
> Piezoelectric devices should be able to do this and be small.
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2012-01-20 by John Labovitz
On 20 Jan 2012, at 9:16 AM, Paul wrote: > The question I'd like to pursue is whether there is a way to use a vibrator to agitate the carts -- with Eboni in wide format carts being my main concern. If there are small vibrators that we could put under the bags in the carts, we might be able to somewhat automate the agitation and avoid having to pull the carts to do this. > > So, are there small vibrators? (I'm not sure I want to ask my daughters.) Piezoelectric devices should be able to do this and be small. Check this out: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/8449 This is the kind of gizmo that's built into cellphones to implement "silent" mode. I don't know whether it's actually enough vibration, but it's relatively cheap, and could probably just be hot-glued to the bottom of an inkjet cart. It looks easily controllable with a microcomputer like an Arduino. I could imagine a fairly simple system that would run automated, scheduled vibrations to a set of carts. --John
2012-01-20 by Paul
> ... Just Google "Finger Massager"... & > Check this out: > > http://www.sparkfun.com/products/8449 Thank you Mike and John. Very interesting. That button-sized cell phone device looks like it might be small enough to have on the end of carts and even have the cart door closed. If they worked to agitate the ink, they might even be able to be put on a timer and set to go off at night. That way any clunkers might have time to settle before the printer was turned on. Paul www.PaulRoark.com
2012-01-21 by Terry Ritz
FWIW, my Canon 8300 turns itself on every once in a while and agitates the inks. It sounds like ink is spraying around, as best I can recall, and it displays "Agitating" on the display. I really don't know how well it works, but I'm glad they have put something in place. Terry.
On 12-01-20 11:16 AM, "Paul Roark" <roark.paul@...> wrote: > I was disappointed when Epson did not address the ink settling issue in the > 7800 and newer series of wide format printers via some sort of pulsing of the > air and design of the cart so that the inks would be agitated. This vibrator > idea may be a route that we can take to do this.
2012-01-21 by Ernst Dinkla
On 01/21/2012 02:17 AM, Terry Ritz wrote: > FWIW, my Canon 8300 turns itself on every once in a while and agitates the > inks. It sounds like ink is spraying around, as best I can recall, and it > displays "Agitating" on the display. I really don't know how well it works, > but I'm glad they have put something in place. > > Terry. Terry, I am still not sure what the ink channel concept is of the iPF models. As I understand it there are two connectors on the carts and it was suggested to me that ink is circling in part of the system but not totally to the head buffers. A user remarked that on a used cart there is ink seen at both connections which would confirm the system described above. Yet when I talked to a service man working on an iPF9000 (flat cable repair, a flaw on that machine, first symptom; LM channel starts printing irregular) he indicated that the extra hole was just to compensate air pressure when ink was drawn from the cart. I am even more interested in the HP Z6100-6200 system. There is not the usual HP membrane pump on the cart outside and it has two connectors. Whether that suggests a circling ink system, an air pressure system or just an extra inlet for air, I do not know. When that cart is empty I will take it apart. No Z6100 here, just using the ink for mixes. -- Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm | Dinkla Grafische Techniek | | www.pigment-print.com | | ( unvollendet ) |
2012-01-21 by Ernst Dinkla
On 01/20/2012 06:16 PM, Paul wrote: >Keeping the particles separated is mostly done these days > with a coating that gives the particles an electrostatic repulsion. > I think this coating oxidizes. I've seen old Eboni bottles pull in > slightly, as if air is being sucked out of them. I think it is. The > coatings (not the carbon) may be oxidizing. This would mean the > particles would not have the electrostatic repulsion needed to keep > them from clumping. Other mechanisms can pull your bottles in too. I used to make an ink for silkscreen masks that artists could paint with. Sieved medicinal carbon powder (a Norit quality) that only particles the size of approx 50 micron were available. That size could just be resolved on silkscreen emulsions and fine mesh. Mixed that powder in PVA + alcohol. I called that ink liguid screen raster ink, it allowed tone variations when painted on PET film. Carbon particles like that have an enormous free surface compared to their size, the same stuff is used in gas masks to trap fumes, gases. The first days the fluid in the inks was absorbed completely by the carbon and I had to refill again and again to keep the mix fluid enough. Bottle pulled in too. You may have seen that effect if the pigment carbon particles have that characteristic too. Or the effect that polyethylene bottles are not as tight for certain solvents while air can not get through to compensate the reduced pressure in the bottle. Breathing on temperature changes. Off topic sample of a silkscreen print detail: http://www.pigment-print.com/Van%20Erven/target2.html -- Met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm | Dinkla Grafische Techniek | | www.pigment-print.com | | ( unvollendet ) |
2012-01-21 by ascherjim@aol.com
Paul observed "Keeping the particles separated is mostly done these days with a coating that gives the particles an electrostatic repulsion. I think this coating oxidizes. I've seen old Eboni bottles pull in slightly, as if air is being sucked out of them. I think it is. The coatings (not the carbon) may be oxidizing. This would mean the particles would not have the electrostatic repulsion needed to keep them from clumping." A month or two ago I bought another bottle of Eboni Black from MIS with a "use before" date of 9/4/2013. The bottle has not yet been opened, and was already significantly "puckered" upon arrival. Need I be concerned? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2012-01-21 by Paul
I don't know if some "puckering" of the bottle is a danger sign. Ernst noted that there are other things that could do this. I do think it's a good practice to agitate that bottle a few hours before pulling ink from it. That allows any serious clumps to settle. Paul www.PaulRoark.com --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, ascherjim@... wrote:
> > Paul observed "Keeping the particles separated is mostly done these days with a coating that gives the particles an electrostatic repulsion. I think this coating oxidizes. I've seen old Eboni bottles pull in slightly, as if air is being sucked out of them. I think it is. The coatings (not the carbon) may be oxidizing. This would mean the particles would not have the electrostatic repulsion needed to keep them from clumping." > > A month or two ago I bought another bottle of Eboni Black from MIS with a "use before" date of 9/4/2013. The bottle has not yet been opened, and was already significantly "puckered" upon arrival. Need I be concerned? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
2012-01-22 by bmarsolais
You might also consider the effects of elevation change from where the bottle was filled and where you are. I learned a long time ago that when filling a detergent bottle at sea level and then driving to 8000+ feet elevation, I better squeeze out any extra air when I fill it and tightly cap the bottle or it may leak all over while traveling. And a partially filled water bottle in my backpack at 8000 feet looks like its been run over when I arrive home! --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...> wrote:
> > I don't know if some "puckering" of the bottle is a danger sign. Ernst noted that there are other things that could do this. I do think it's a good practice to agitate that bottle a few hours before pulling ink from it. That allows any serious clumps to settle. > > Paul > www.PaulRoark.com >