Digital BW, The Print

I just want to throw something in that you may want to test along with 
what you are doing already.  I ran into this while doing a test book.  
In their case they had a "convrt to B&W option--less than perfect.

What I do--even with ABW, etc.--is open a copy of a file and do a 
convert myself.  This helps in a couple of ways.  First of all, a 
generic PS convert to B&W assumes a lot by the software.  Other folks 
simply do a full desaturate but leave it in RGB--also not great IMHO.

I use Adjustments> Black and White.  Couple of options here.  First I go 
through the old school (I am) and see what the green, orange or yellow 
filters do in the options box.  I usually wind up adjusting the color 
filters further, controlling sky, vegetation, etc. where I get both the 
detail and densities I prefer in each are.  Think Zone System; think 
WWAAD--what would Ansel Adams do?

After that, the RGB information is still there.  NOW I convert to B&W 
using >Mode.  I know it seems redundant, but it removes the possibility 
of any tints being left behind.  (Some others' books where printing B&W 
with slight green or magenta tints.  Mine had none perceptible, though 
the iOne Pro can always find something.

Now when I throw this to ABW, or whatever, I am dealing with pure Ks.

I know ABW is throwing some color pigment in there though.  With yellow 
being the weak link, I normally drag "southwest" about -11 to -19 to 
force the ink to the more stable Cyan side.  It doesn't seem to affect 
the B&W print appearance.

Just a thought.

Seth

Seth

We're talking about different things here.  I am not talking about how to convert an image to B&W.  There are a multitude of ways to do that, some of which you note below. (I still use the split channels method - all of R, G, B, L* from Lab, C, M, Y, K.)

I am talking about how you manage the gamut compression from file to print.

As for the hue selection in ABW, that I believe is a personal preference. (I like warm tone prints and my favourite is 10-20.) 

Re the use of colour ink by ABW, here's a clip from a post Roy made in 2007:


"Since there's been talk about the two Epson driver modes I thought
it would be worthwhile seeing how they compare in ink usage.
The following "prints" were done to a file and analyzed to see what
commands were being sent to the printer.

Comparison of ink usage from the Epson R2400 with Epson driver
Image - grayscale 21 step wedge
Paper - Velvet Fine Art
Quality - Best Photo (1440x1440)
Both prints use 2 dot sizes, percents are weighted based on drop size

Epson ABW driver - neutral
total	100%	dots 9,763,341 small 2,532,646 medium
K	31.27%
LK	26.15%
LLK	21.03%
LM	12.76%
LC	 7.92%
Y	 0.87%

Epson standard driver - Epson Velvet Fine Art profile
total	100%	dots 10,393,768 small 2,694,351 medium
K	32.84%
LK	49.40%
LLK	 1.29%
M	 3.25%
LM	 4.39%
C	 2.90%
LC	 2.37%
Y	 3.54%

Some observations:
ABW uses a lot more LLK --- 16 times!
ABW uses a lot less Y --- 1/4 the amount
ABW uses no dark C and M

Interestingly this really supports the idea of replacing the Y
ink with a LLK ink with either driver.

Roy"



On 2 Mar 2012, at 14:19, Seth Rossman wrote:

> I just want to throw something in that you may want to test along with 
> what you are doing already. I ran into this while doing a test book. 
> In their case they had a "convrt to B&W option--less than perfect.
> 
> What I do--even with ABW, etc.--is open a copy of a file and do a 
> convert myself. This helps in a couple of ways. First of all, a 
> generic PS convert to B&W assumes a lot by the software. Other folks 
> simply do a full desaturate but leave it in RGB--also not great IMHO.
> 
> I use Adjustments> Black and White. Couple of options here. First I go 
> through the old school (I am) and see what the green, orange or yellow 
> filters do in the options box. I usually wind up adjusting the color 
> filters further, controlling sky, vegetation, etc. where I get both the 
> detail and densities I prefer in each are. Think Zone System; think 
> WWAAD--what would Ansel Adams do?
> 
> After that, the RGB information is still there. NOW I convert to B&W 
> using >Mode. I know it seems redundant, but it removes the possibility 
> of any tints being left behind. (Some others' books where printing B&W 
> with slight green or magenta tints. Mine had none perceptible, though 
> the iOne Pro can always find something.
> 
> Now when I throw this to ABW, or whatever, I am dealing with pure Ks.
> 
> I know ABW is throwing some color pigment in there though. With yellow 
> being the weak link, I normally drag "southwest" about -11 to -19 to 
> force the ink to the more stable Cyan side. It doesn't seem to affect 
> the B&W print appearance.
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> Seth
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry Steve-

I didn't mean to sound as if I was telling you how to prepare, although on re-reading I can see that.  My bad.

What I was gettng at is that I found by removing all the color variables I got (in this test) a better reproduction range.  Admittedly, this was going to an HP Indigo 5500.  Since I submitted the same picture done both ways, it was obvious which was the better way in THAT situation. Not only was one B&W better toned, it held noticeably more detail and a broader tonal range.

I just threw it out for your experimentation if you desire.

Seth

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <stevekale@...> wrote:

>
> Seth
> 
> We're talking about different things here.  I am not talking about how to convert an image to B&W.  There are a multitude of ways to do that, some of which you note below. (I still use the split channels method - all of R, G, B, L* from Lab, C, M, Y, K.)
> 
> I am talking about how you manage the gamut compression from file to print.