Digital BW, The Print

Hello. I just joined the forum. While I have known about Paul Roark's work with B&W for a few years now, I have just begun the learning curve for B&W processing and output. Which means I need a new, dedicated B&W printer. My income is only disability so I must keep expenses as low as possible. I have an Epson 1400 that I will continue to use for color work, but do not know the best option between these two smaller printers. The least expensive seems a little more difficult to convert to B&W. I have been researching all morning and have ended up confused.

What I would like to know is the easiest (one set of pre-filled carts hopefully that could then be refilled)as well as the least expensive solution over time -- that produces the optimum for a 4 ink printer. I see mention that Paul uses a combo of EZ neutral and warm inks in some cases. For tone, I would choose Neutral overall (unless the two warm tones that Paul uses still produce a basically neutral tone). I would like to standardize, in the beginning, on the PremierArt matte paper. 

Your input will be much appreciated.

"Jean" <jeanhenderson5@...> wrote:
>
> ... I have just begun the learning curve for B&W processing and output. Which means I need a new, dedicated B&W printer. ...
> I must keep expenses as low as possible. 

> I have an Epson 1400 that I will continue to use for color work,...

You really ought to learn QTR and see what the color 1400 can do on high gloss paper like Red River Polar Pearl Metallic.  The "half BO, half color" QTR profile is the "ABW" version of printing for the 1400 -- not half bad.  See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1400-Claria-BW.pdf  

I say I just make cards and brochures with this setup, but today the "card" I made was 13x28" and dry-mounted (and over 50 MP - major WOW for a detail freak).


> but do not know the best option between these two smaller printers. The least expensive seems a little more difficult to convert to B&W. 

> What I would like to know is the easiest (one set of pre-filled carts hopefully that could then be refilled)

C88 with MIS EZ.  They pre-fill and carts are re-fillable.


> as well as the least expensive solution over time -- that produces the optimum for a 4 ink printer.

If you could swing it, the 1100 with Eboni-4, mixed with generic base, would be the cheapest 13" printer with the cheapest inks, and it can also produce some of the very best (very lightfast and smooth) prints, but not very neutral on your PremierArt matte.

>... For tone, I would choose Neutral overall ...

Start with all EZ Neutral in the C88.  If it's too cold, add one cart of EZ warm.

Note that the curves that start one ink at a time make a smoother print.  I'm not sure if I have a profile for that paper and that approach, but some for other papers might work, and once you get into it, you can easily linearize an ICC with one of the sequential starting curves.

Enjoy.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Thank you so much, Paul! I really appreciate hearing it from you. Based on what you wrote, it looks like buying QTR is the first step. I will save the rest for later. And, yes, I did look at the Workforce 1100 but forgot about that in my confusion. The Premiere Art papers I use are the Luster and the watercolor. Would the luster work well with 1100 even if the watercolor doesn't?

Jean

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...> wrote:

>
> "Jean" <jeanhenderson5@> wrote:
> >
> > ... I have just begun the learning curve for B&W processing and output. Which means I need a new, dedicated B&W printer. ...
> > I must keep expenses as low as possible. 
> 
> > I have an Epson 1400 that I will continue to use for color work,...
> 
> You really ought to learn QTR and see what the color 1400 can do on high gloss paper like Red River Polar Pearl Metallic.  The "half BO, half color" QTR profile is the "ABW" version of printing for the 1400 -- not half bad.  See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1400-Claria-BW.pdf  
> 
> I say I just make cards and brochures with this setup, but today the "card" I made was 13x28" and dry-mounted (and over 50 MP - major WOW for a detail freak).
> 
> 
> > but do not know the best option between these two smaller printers. The least expensive seems a little more difficult to convert to B&W. 
> 
> > What I would like to know is the easiest (one set of pre-filled carts hopefully that could then be refilled)
> 
> C88 with MIS EZ.  They pre-fill and carts are re-fillable.
> 
> 
> > as well as the least expensive solution over time -- that produces the optimum for a 4 ink printer.
> 
> If you could swing it, the 1100 with Eboni-4, mixed with generic base, would be the cheapest 13" printer with the cheapest inks, and it can also produce some of the very best (very lightfast and smooth) prints, but not very neutral on your PremierArt matte.
> 
> >... For tone, I would choose Neutral overall ...
> 
> Start with all EZ Neutral in the C88.  If it's too cold, add one cart of EZ warm.
> 
> Note that the curves that start one ink at a time make a smoother print.  I'm not sure if I have a profile for that paper and that approach, but some for other papers might work, and once you get into it, you can easily linearize an ICC with one of the sequential starting curves.
> 
> Enjoy.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

"Jean" <jeanhenderson5@...> wrote:
>
> ... The Premiere Art papers I use are the Luster and the watercolor. Would the luster work well with 1100 even if the watercolor doesn't?


I am not that familiar with the PremierArt Luster and watercolor, but generally the luster is a "glossy" paper the watercolor a matte paper.  They take different black inks -- Photo black (PK) for the luster and matte black (MK/Eboni) for the watercolor.

The Eboni-4 inkset I mentioned for the 1100 is just for matte paper.  Since you want to start with a neutral tone, it's probably not going to be your best option.  Eboni-4, the 1100, and Epson Hot Press papers are, however, only slightly warm. The PremierArt fine art 205 (aka Epson Scrapbook) is medium warm. I mention them mostly because the combination of the 1100 and Eboni-4 results in museum grade lightfastness for the least amount of money.

For a neutral print on glossy or matte paper, the MIS EZ neutral is probably the ticket.  You'd just have to change the black cart from PK to MK as you switched from glossy/luster to matte types of paper.

I don't think MIS loads MIS EZ inks for the 1100.  I had suggested they standardize on using an LK density ink for the 1100 "EZ" approach, but they never supported that either.  So, for the 1100, you would have to load your own EZ of UT14-LC (neutral/cool inks like EZ inks but LK density).  I believe I made profiles for the 1100 and UT14-LC approach.  The EZ inks printed a bit light in the 1100, but Photoshop curves could probably bring them up to the appropriate density.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Thank you again, Paul. I hear you about the papers and will look into things more.

Since posting my last questions, I have downloaded the QTR software (it's amazing!) and am trying to learn that as well. It definitely gives a nice warm tone using the 1400 (in which I use a special blend of pigmented Image Specialists inks in this dye based printer). There is absolutely no color cast. Although, in the wet darkroom I liked to Selenium tone my prints, I could get used to this warmness while learning more! 

Jean


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...> wrote:

>
> "Jean" <jeanhenderson5@> wrote:
> >
> > ... The Premiere Art papers I use are the Luster and the watercolor. Would the luster work well with 1100 even if the watercolor doesn't?
> 
> 
> I am not that familiar with the PremierArt Luster and watercolor, but generally the luster is a "glossy" paper the watercolor a matte paper.  They take different black inks -- Photo black (PK) for the luster and matte black (MK/Eboni) for the watercolor.
> 
> The Eboni-4 inkset I mentioned for the 1100 is just for matte paper.  Since you want to start with a neutral tone, it's probably not going to be your best option.  Eboni-4, the 1100, and Epson Hot Press papers are, however, only slightly warm. The PremierArt fine art 205 (aka Epson Scrapbook) is medium warm. I mention them mostly because the combination of the 1100 and Eboni-4 results in museum grade lightfastness for the least amount of money.
> 
> For a neutral print on glossy or matte paper, the MIS EZ neutral is probably the ticket.  You'd just have to change the black cart from PK to MK as you switched from glossy/luster to matte types of paper.
> 
> I don't think MIS loads MIS EZ inks for the 1100.  I had suggested they standardize on using an LK density ink for the 1100 "EZ" approach, but they never supported that either.  So, for the 1100, you would have to load your own EZ of UT14-LC (neutral/cool inks like EZ inks but LK density).  I believe I made profiles for the 1100 and UT14-LC approach.  The EZ inks printed a bit light in the 1100, but Photoshop curves could probably bring them up to the appropriate density.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

Paul ..

RE: the Epson Hot Press papers ..

Whats your take on the Hot Press Bright ..  i find that the prints are more
neutral than the Hot Press Natural (as you'd expect because of the OBA's).

Other than worrying about wether the bright paper will end up looking like
the natural version when the OBA's evaporate, do you see other drawbacks in
using the bright version.

I like the results of EB6 with hot press, and welcome cooler tones.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ricardo Lagos <ricardo.lagos@...> wrote:
> ...
> Whats your take on the Hot Press Bright ...  
> i find that the prints are more
> neutral than the Hot Press Natural ...

> I like the results of EB6 with hot press, and welcome cooler tones.

I think Hot Press Bright is a good paper.  While the OBAs will fade such that the paper may warm a bit, natural papers bleache.  So, either way the paper tone will change with time. The issue is how much and is the tone shift reasonable, visually OK, and what you expected.  I have seen no evidence that the image itself is damaged. Some of my favorite prints on my walls are on brightened paper.

Brightened papers, per se, do not bother me.  H. Photo Rag is brightened and has about the most stable paper tone with age that I've seen.  I think they did their homework well and matched the OBA fade to the paper bleaching rate, so they cancel out.  I'd like to see more companies do this.

http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/ has all the info you need in the various tests to see how good or bad a paper performs with age.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com