Digital BW, The Print

The Editor of "Professional Imagemaker" passed on a list of baryta papers that included a some others that would appear to have no or minimal OBAs in them. Below is a list of those that had a whiteness of less than 100 and a positive Lab B. (A positive Lab B is on the yellow side of neutral.) The Lab B figure is the number following the name of the paper. For reference, my spectro indicates Epson Hot Press Natural has a Lab B = 2.

Tecco BTI290 Baryt Paper Ivory -- 2.9

Innova FibaPrint Warmtone Gloss -- 3.46

Permajet Fibre Base Gloss Warmtone -- 3.6

Fotospeed Platinum Lustre -- 1.65

Hahnemuhle FineArt Photo Rag Baryta -- 1.63

Fotospeed Platinum Gloss -- 3.52

Harman Hahnemuhle Gloss Art Fibre Warm Tone -- 1.37

Harman Hahnemuhle Gloss Baryta Warmtone -- 2.14

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com

I find something in these terminologies confusing.

Isn't a Baryta layer in a photo paper there to whiten the substrate,  
so doesn't that make Baryta an OBA ?

J.Z.

http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/news.18.html
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm

There are more aspects to the use of OBAs that have to be considered 
next to the degradation of the OBA dyes in time.
Papers with OBA tend to have less color constancy in changing light 
conditions (incorrectly called "metamerism").
Spectrometers used for profile creation often are UV-cut so do not 
create an OBA effect in the measurements and the profiling software 
usually compensates that in one way or another. In practice that seems 
to work but is a somewhat arbitrary method. To sum it up; there is more 
precision/reliability in a profile made with a UV enabled spectrometer 
of an OBA free paper than in one made with a UV cut spectrometer on an 
OBA paper. Yet the last conditions are more often encountered.

-- 
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2012: 500+ inkjet media paper white spectral plots.

On 11/03/2013 06:58 PM, pdesmidt tds.net wrote:
> If I understand correctly, OBAs turn UV light into bluish visible light,
> which causes paper with them in to look brighter when exposed to UV
> light.  Substances that make the paper whiter by making it reflect more
> white visible light, such as baryta or titanium dioxide, don't do the uv
> trick.  The problem with OBAs, other than a slight blue shift, is that
> they'll eventually stop performing their trick, which'll cause the paper
> to appear yellower.

Actually TiO2 does the UV trick but we can not see it. It absorbs UV 
light as well but emits the energy as heat beyond the red wavelengths. 
OBAs tend to perform better with Barite than with TiO2 as there is no 
competition in the absorption of UV light with Barite..

-- 
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2012: 500+ inkjet media paper white spectral plots.

On 11/02/2013 05:26 PM, roark.paul@... wrote:
>
> The Editor  of "Professional Imagemaker" passed on a list of baryta
> papers that included a some others that would appear to have no or
> minimal OBAs in them.  Below is a list of those that had a whiteness of
> less than 100 and a positive Lab B.  (A positive Lab B is on the yellow
> side of neutral.)  The Lab B figure is the number following the name of
> the paper.  For reference, my spectro indicates Epson Hot Press Natural
> has a Lab B = 2.
>
>
> Tecco BTI290 Baryt Paper Ivory -- 2.9
>
> Innova FibaPrint Warmtone Gloss -- 3.46
>
> Permajet Fibre Base Gloss Warmtone -- 3.6
>
> Fotospeed Platinum Lustre -- 1.65
>
> Hahnemuhle FineArt Photo Rag Baryta -- 1.63
>
> Fotospeed Platinum Gloss -- 3.52
>
> Harman Hahnemuhle Gloss Art Fibre Warm Tone -- 1.37
>
> Harman Hahnemuhle Gloss Baryta Warmtone -- 2.14

I have my doubts on the last one mentioned, a very irregular spectral 
plot with a hint of fluorescence due to OBAs in the paper base, not in 
the coating.

Below I add here more warm Fiber/Baryta qualities without OBAs (with and 
without barite mentioned in the specs) .

Sihl 4848 Masterclass Satin Baryta 290gsm -- 2.4
Bergger PN70 Warm Glossy 300gsm -- 3.9
Both Alpha Cellulose which is rare for warm barite papers, only the 
Innova (IFA19) and the Harman by HM Gloss Art Fibre Warm Tone mentioned 
above are AC.

Cotton based:
Innova IFA45 FibaPrint Warm Cotton Gloss 335 gsm -- 3.0
Canon USA Polished Rag 300gsm -- 2.6
Canson Platine Fibre Rag 310gsm -- 0.4
Hahnem\ufffdhle Photo Rag Pearl 320gsm -- 1.9
Museo Silver Rag 300gsm -- 2.5

There have been more but they are no longer produced.


-- 
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2012: 500+ inkjet media paper white spectral plots.

I had a conversation at the Photo Plus show in NY about Oba's and the funny thing is UV is something you don't want your prints to be exposed to but that's how you get the full effect with Oba's. Food for thought.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Jacques Caron" <jacques.caron@...>
Sent: ‎11/‎2/‎2013 10:35 AM
To: "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [Digital BW] RE: Non-OBA Baryta papers

  
I get an average of 2,25 Lab B with cold press and Eb6 on a 1430


Jacques Caron
Photographe
jacques.caron@...

On 11/05/2013 12:06 PM, David Kachel wrote:
> /I had a conversation at the Photo Plus show in NY about Oba's and the
> funny thing is UV is something you don't want your prints to be exposed
> to but that's how you get the full effect with Oba's. Food for thought./
>
>
> The insanity doesn't stop there\ufffd
> Fine art photographers are careful to have their OBA containing prints
> framed with UV glass so that UV will never get to the OBA's.
> Stupid, huh!
>
>
> David Kachel

No Fibre/Baryta paper but the Epson Hot and Cold Press Bright matte 
papers have an OBA content that stands time better. Two of the very few 
OBA papers that have that quality. The sadly no longer distributed Canon 
(USA) Heavyweight Satin Photographic RC 300 gsm showed something of that 
quality too.  In that case it could be wise to use a museum glass that 
is more translucent for UV than the normal frame glasses are, not to 
mention UV-cut glass. Whether there is enough UV in the display light 
and ambient light for the OBA effect is another matter. Normal window 
glass already cuts UV from daylight to a degree. Other factors that 
degrade image colors and OBAs are visible light and oxygen/gas fading. 
The last will be reduced by framing though. So framing behind glass and 
OBA content can be used if one is aware of all the aspects.

-- 
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2012: 500+ inkjet media paper white spectral plots.

A few questions:
-How long have Baryta papers been around?
-Does knowing that a B&W print made on "low" (Aardenburg) OBA papers will only be shown under museum condition (no UV lighting) make a difference?
--Fred Fischer

On 11/06/2013 03:36 PM, Fred Fischer wrote:
> A few questions:
> -How long have Baryta papers been around?
> -Does knowing that a B&W print made on "low" (Aardenburg) OBA papers
> will only be shown under museum condition (no UV lighting) make a
> difference?
> Fred's Signature
>
> --Fred Fischer

At least since 1900.
OBAs were used from 1950 onwards.

Make a difference?  The OBA effect will not happen so the paper will be 
warmer and less reflective. The degradation of the OBA dyes can still 
happen though due to oxidation and visible light.

The idea that OBA degradation in time delivers a paper white of a 
non-OBA paper is not so certain. There can be "unnatural" color shifts 
as I understand it.

-- 
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2012: 500+ inkjet media paper white spectral plots.

While I checked the dates of first OBA and barite use in photo papers I 
came across an initiative of the Getty Foundation:
http://www.getty.edu/conservation/our_projects/science/photocon/photocon_wanted.html

So if you still have old film and paper packages lying around you know 
what can be done with them. Related research articles can be found 
through that link too.

What I miss is a similar initiative for digital photography. Sure 
analogue photography is heading for bicentennial but digital prints are 
close to 30 years now. Some papers and inks are no longer produced but 
enough will still be stored by users and distributors that will be 
thrown away in the next decades.

-- 
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2012: 500+ inkjet media paper white spectral plots.