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Dye sets for Epson 3800 printer

Dye sets for Epson 3800 printer

2014-02-27 by <lestihor@...>

Paul and others,

Does anyone have a recipe for dye ink sets using Claria or Noritsu inks for the Epson 3800 printer? If so, are either of these inks available for purchase in retail amounts or only in bulk amounts? I have used Cone's InkThrift inks, but I found that light blacks tend to have an unpleasant bluish cast.

Les

Re: [Digital BW] Dye sets for Epson 3800 printer

2014-02-27 by Paul Roark

Anyone who is willing to mix inks can make any number of Claria-like inksets. The Epson-made Noritsu dry-lab inks appear to be good sources the claria type dyes.

Some of my expamples are at

I formulated a generic base for the Epson Claria/Noritsu dyes. See footnote 9 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/4000-Noritsu-BW-Variable-Tone.pdf .

MIS sells this at http://www.inksupply.com/product-details.cfm?pn=PR-CLEARBASE-PT . (I do not get any royalties, etc. and have no financial incentive to "sell" this.)

The Epson-made Noritsu dyes are available from the dry-lab ink sellers. See footnote 8 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/4000-Noritsu-BW-Variable-Tone.pdf .

The LM I use is just 30% Noritsu M and 70% base. You can use similar dilution steps to make the LK (30% K) and LLK (9% K). It works great. LC is probably also 30% C, but I'll be mixing and testing that within a week (just took delivery of the Noritsu C today).

I may well load a color inset into an Epson 4000, not that I want to print color, but because printing B&W glossies may be best done with about half black/gray and half color dye inks. I published a QTR profile some time ago for the 1400 OEM Claria set that does this -- half BO and half color. It works very well. Half black controls the metamerism/color constancy issues sufficiently.

If you head down this road, plan on spraying the prints to protect them. Dyes appear to need it. (But, how it affects the colors is an open question.) The sprayed BO Claria test print (Canson baryta paper) in the http://aardenburg-imaging.com/ tests did much better than the sample that was un-sprayed.

Also, be mindful that dyes have many more variables that impact their longevity than is the case with pigments. There are a lot of unknowns here. I intend to continue to work on making better B&W glossys with these and similar inputs.

Paul




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On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 5:08 PM, <lestihor@gmail.com> wrote:

Paul and others,


Does anyone have a recipe for dye ink sets using Claria or Noritsu inks for the Epson 3800 printer? If so, are either of these inks available for purchase in retail amounts or only in bulk amounts? I have used Cone's InkThrift inks, but I found that light blacks tend to have an unpleasant bluish cast.

Les


Re: [Digital BW] Dye sets for Epson 3800 printer

2014-02-27 by Leslie Tihor

Thanks for your quick reply, Paul. You have given much to study and think about. I'm sure I will have more questions after I go through all this.

Les
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 10:13 PM, Paul Roark <roark.paul@...> wrote:

Anyone who is willing to mix inks can make any number of Claria-like inksets. The Epson-made Noritsu dry-lab inks appear to be good sources the claria type dyes.

Some of my expamples are at

I formulated a generic base for the Epson Claria/Noritsu dyes. See footnote 9 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/4000-Noritsu-BW-Variable-Tone.pdf .

MIS sells this at http://www.inksupply.com/product-details.cfm?pn=PR-CLEARBASE-PT . (I do not get any royalties, etc. and have no financial incentive to "sell" this.)

The Epson-made Noritsu dyes are available from the dry-lab ink sellers. See footnote 8 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/4000-Noritsu-BW-Variable-Tone.pdf .

The LM I use is just 30% Noritsu M and 70% base. You can use similar dilution steps to make the LK (30% K) and LLK (9% K). It works great. LC is probably also 30% C, but I'll be mixing and testing that within a week (just took delivery of the Noritsu C today).

I may well load a color inset into an Epson 4000, not that I want to print color, but because printing B&W glossies may be best done with about half black/gray and half color dye inks. I published a QTR profile some time ago for the 1400 OEM Claria set that does this -- half BO and half color. It works very well. Half black controls the metamerism/color constancy issues sufficiently.

If you head down this road, plan on spraying the prints to protect them. Dyes appear to need it. (But, how it affects the colors is an open question.) The sprayed BO Claria test print (Canson baryta paper) in the http://aardenburg-imaging.com/ tests did much better than the sample that was un-sprayed.

Also, be mindful that dyes have many more variables that impact their longevity than is the case with pigments. There are a lot of unknowns here. I intend to continue to work on making better B&W glossys with these and similar inputs.

Paul






On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 5:08 PM, <lestihor@...> wrote:

Paul and others,


Does anyone have a recipe for dye ink sets using Claria or Noritsu inks for the Epson 3800 printer? If so, are either of these inks available for purchase in retail amounts or only in bulk amounts? I have used Cone's InkThrift inks, but I found that light blacks tend to have an unpleasant bluish cast.

Les



Re: [Digital BW] Dye sets for Epson 3800 printer

2014-03-03 by Paul Roark

Comparing the Claria LC to the Noritsu C diluted 30% C to 70% dye clear base, it appears they are "about the same." Since the Noritsu was just printed and the Claria is a few days old, there are some minor differences that may be due to dry-down or dye batch differences, even if the same chemistry.


Paul
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Paul Roark <roark.paul@...> wrote:
Anyone who is willing to mix inks can make any number of Claria-like inksets. The Epson-made Noritsu dry-lab inks appear to be good sources the claria type dyes.

Some of my expamples are at

I formulated a generic base for the Epson Claria/Noritsu dyes. See footnote 9 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/4000-Noritsu-BW-Variable-Tone.pdf .

MIS sells this at http://www.inksupply.com/product-details.cfm?pn=PR-CLEARBASE-PT . (I do not get any royalties, etc. and have no financial incentive to "sell" this.)

The Epson-made Noritsu dyes are available from the dry-lab ink sellers. See footnote 8 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/4000-Noritsu-BW-Variable-Tone.pdf .

The LM I use is just 30% Noritsu M and 70% base. You can use similar dilution steps to make the LK (30% K) and LLK (9% K). It works great. LC is probably also 30% C, but I'll be mixing and testing that within a week (just took delivery of the Noritsu C today).

I may well load a color inset into an Epson 4000, not that I want to print color, but because printing B&W glossies may be best done with about half black/gray and half color dye inks. I published a QTR profile some time ago for the 1400 OEM Claria set that does this -- half BO and half color. It works very well. Half black controls the metamerism/color constancy issues sufficiently.

If you head down this road, plan on spraying the prints to protect them. Dyes appear to need it. (But, how it affects the colors is an open question.) The sprayed BO Claria test print (Canson baryta paper) in the http://aardenburg-imaging.com/ tests did much better than the sample that was un-sprayed.

Also, be mindful that dyes have many more variables that impact their longevity than is the case with pigments. There are a lot of unknowns here. I intend to continue to work on making better B&W glossys with these and similar inputs.

Paul






On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 5:08 PM, <lestihor@...> wrote:

Paul and others,


Does anyone have a recipe for dye ink sets using Claria or Noritsu inks for the Epson 3800 printer? If so, are either of these inks available for purchase in retail amounts or only in bulk amounts? I have used Cone's InkThrift inks, but I found that light blacks tend to have an unpleasant bluish cast.

Les



Re: [Digital BW] Dye sets for Epson 3800 printer

2014-03-03 by Leslie Tihor

Thanks for the additional info, Paul.

Do either of these inks show a shift toward dark blue when applied very lightly, as I found with another well known brand, or do they remain neutral black or grey?

Les
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 8:06 PM, Paul Roark <roark.paul@gmail.com> wrote:

Comparing the Claria LC to the Noritsu C diluted 30% C to 70% dye clear base, it appears they are "about the same." Since the Noritsu was just printed and the Claria is a few days old, there are some minor differences that may be due to dry-down or dye batch differences, even if the same chemistry.


Paul


On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Paul Roark <roark.paul@...> wrote:
Anyone who is willing to mix inks can make any number of Claria-like inksets. The Epson-made Noritsu dry-lab inks appear to be good sources the claria type dyes.

Some of my expamples are at

I formulated a generic base for the Epson Claria/Noritsu dyes. See footnote 9 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/4000-Noritsu-BW-Variable-Tone.pdf .

MIS sells this at http://www.inksupply.com/product-details.cfm?pn=PR-CLEARBASE-PT . (I do not get any royalties, etc. and have no financial incentive to "sell" this.)

The Epson-made Noritsu dyes are available from the dry-lab ink sellers. See footnote 8 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/4000-Noritsu-BW-Variable-Tone.pdf .

The LM I use is just 30% Noritsu M and 70% base. You can use similar dilution steps to make the LK (30% K) and LLK (9% K). It works great. LC is probably also 30% C, but I'll be mixing and testing that within a week (just took delivery of the Noritsu C today).

I may well load a color inset into an Epson 4000, not that I want to print color, but because printing B&W glossies may be best done with about half black/gray and half color dye inks. I published a QTR profile some time ago for the 1400 OEM Claria set that does this -- half BO and half color. It works very well. Half black controls the metamerism/color constancy issues sufficiently.

If you head down this road, plan on spraying the prints to protect them. Dyes appear to need it. (But, how it affects the colors is an open question.) The sprayed BO Claria test print (Canson baryta paper) in the http://aardenburg-imaging.com/ tests did much better than the sample that was un-sprayed.

Also, be mindful that dyes have many more variables that impact their longevity than is the case with pigments. There are a lot of unknowns here. I intend to continue to work on making better B&W glossys with these and similar inputs.

Paul






On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 5:08 PM, <lestihor@...> wrote:

Paul and others,


Does anyone have a recipe for dye ink sets using Claria or Noritsu inks for the Epson 3800 printer? If so, are either of these inks available for purchase in retail amounts or only in bulk amounts? I have used Cone's InkThrift inks, but I found that light blacks tend to have an unpleasant bluish cast.

Les




Re: [Digital BW] Dye sets for Epson 3800 printer

2014-03-03 by Paul Roark

The Claria and Noritsu dyes, when profiled to make "neutral" B&W prints, do show more metamerism and color constancy issues than do the carbon pigment B&W prints I make. They are way less than the old Epson dyes or the HP dyes I tested about a year ago. They are sufficiently good that I'm going to target a B&W dye print that uses 2/3 color inks to make the grays, and only 1/3 K (diluted). The Claria/Noritsu black dye shows less sensitivity to lighting differences than do the color inks. However, the color dyes are considerably stronger than the black dye. They also color shift with fading in different directions. So, by using both, I can somewhat offset the tone shift.

Keep in mind with all of this that the dyes are excellent for some uses (high gloss), but not in the same league with carbon in terms of longevity.

Interestingly, the new Epson D3000 SureLab printer for the dry lab industry uses an inkset they call "UltraChrome D6." This inkset uses the color dyes combined with a carbon black. They are selling the system, in part, based on claims of "archival" stability for the images as well as no gloss differential, not to mention the "3 dimensional" visual impact the dyes can have. The D3000 can only print up to 12" wide, and it costs about $20,000. For my uses, an old Epson 4000 with Epson-Noritsu dyes is a better deal.

Paul
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Leslie Tihor <lestihor@...> wrote:

Thanks for the additional info, Paul.

Do either of these inks show a shift toward dark blue when applied very lightly, as I found with another well known brand, or do they remain neutral black or grey?

Les


On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 8:06 PM, Paul Roark <roark.paul@...> wrote:

Comparing the Claria LC to the Noritsu C diluted 30% C to 70% dye clear base, it appears they are "about the same." Since the Noritsu was just printed and the Claria is a few days old, there are some minor differences that may be due to dry-down or dye batch differences, even if the same chemistry.


Paul


On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Paul Roark <roark.paul@...> wrote:
Anyone who is willing to mix inks can make any number of Claria-like inksets. The Epson-made Noritsu dry-lab inks appear to be good sources the claria type dyes.

Some of my expamples are at

I formulated a generic base for the Epson Claria/Noritsu dyes. See footnote 9 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/4000-Noritsu-BW-Variable-Tone.pdf .

MIS sells this at http://www.inksupply.com/product-details.cfm?pn=PR-CLEARBASE-PT . (I do not get any royalties, etc. and have no financial incentive to "sell" this.)

The Epson-made Noritsu dyes are available from the dry-lab ink sellers. See footnote 8 of http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/4000-Noritsu-BW-Variable-Tone.pdf .

The LM I use is just 30% Noritsu M and 70% base. You can use similar dilution steps to make the LK (30% K) and LLK (9% K). It works great. LC is probably also 30% C, but I'll be mixing and testing that within a week (just took delivery of the Noritsu C today).

I may well load a color inset into an Epson 4000, not that I want to print color, but because printing B&W glossies may be best done with about half black/gray and half color dye inks. I published a QTR profile some time ago for the 1400 OEM Claria set that does this -- half BO and half color. It works very well. Half black controls the metamerism/color constancy issues sufficiently.

If you head down this road, plan on spraying the prints to protect them. Dyes appear to need it. (But, how it affects the colors is an open question.) The sprayed BO Claria test print (Canson baryta paper) in the http://aardenburg-imaging.com/ tests did much better than the sample that was un-sprayed.

Also, be mindful that dyes have many more variables that impact their longevity than is the case with pigments. There are a lot of unknowns here. I intend to continue to work on making better B&W glossys with these and similar inputs.

Paul






On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 5:08 PM, <lestihor@...> wrote:

Paul and others,


Does anyone have a recipe for dye ink sets using Claria or Noritsu inks for the Epson 3800 printer? If so, are either of these inks available for purchase in retail amounts or only in bulk amounts? I have used Cone's InkThrift inks, but I found that light blacks tend to have an unpleasant bluish cast.

Les





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