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LASCAUX Fixative for CLARIA on GLOSSY

LASCAUX Fixative for CLARIA on GLOSSY

2014-03-29 by Edward Wiseman

A Short while back Paul Roark mentioned the use of  LASCAUX  fixative
spray for glossy B&W un-glazed EPSON CLARIA prints ..Paul, if you're reading
this, can you share your experience in HOW you use this protectant?..I've
been using Premiere Art Shield Lacquer, and it's GREAT for LUSTRE or MATTE
finish media, but dulls the glass-like surface of the glossy papers,
obviously killing the liquid look ..How many coats do you apply?..How long
does it take to dry?..Where have you found the best pricing for this
spray?..My internet search tells me this stuff is quite expensive..At least
$25-$30 for a small spray can of the UV Gloss..My largest prints (12x18")
would slurp up a can/cans in no time.

THX in advance to PAUL and others that may chime in.


Eddie Wiseman

Re: [Digital BW] LASCAUX Fixative for CLARIA on GLOSSY

2014-03-29 by Paul Roark

Eddie,

I use the non-UV version of Lascaux Fixativ. The UV version is just like Print Shield and negatively affects the surface characteristics of the paper. Mark (of aardenburg-imaging.com) believes the thickness of the UV coatings is so thin that the protective effect is mostly from the reduction of the rate of oxidation. I agree. Consistent with this view is the fade testing results of the black ink. At partial load it's relatively weak. At full load, it's strong. With the very low viscosity Lascaux we're using acrylic to fill the coating instead of more ink.

I have been using 4 coats, one each with vertical, horizontal, and 2 diagonal patterns. It is probably best to allow drying between each coat. I sometimes use a hair drier to speed this drying, sometimes not.

I'm in California and can spray all year in my open garage with cross-flow ventilation. Wear goggles and don't breath. I have a respirator that I use for very large prints. Usually I just hold my breath during the spraying.

The concept here is to lock up the absorbent material in the coating but not disturb the highly engineered surface. Figuring out exactly how much Lascaux is needed to accomplish this is the problem. I don't have an answer there. (That is part of why I've switched the printer ink setup to increase the lightfastness, just in case the spraying was less than totally effective.)

Search for deals on Lascaux. Sometimes Jerry's will have a sale. I buy quite a few cans when that happens.

I have not done a lot of research on good and cheaper substitutes for Lascaux (non-UV). I found it via a speech by a National Museum expert to the pastel painters' association. It was one of the few 100% acrylic sprays he recommended. The others seem to be gone -- some acquired by large paint companies that may or may not have changed the ingredients. Lascaux has the original acrylic in it, which is non-yellowing. Many if not most of the sprays will yellow. I don't believe the ads on the cans after testing some "non-yellowing" sprays that yellowed in only 100 hours in my fader.

Paul
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On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 4:27 AM, Edward Wiseman <pahts@...> wrote:

A Short while back Paul Roark mentioned the use of LASCAUX fixative spray for glossy B&W un-glazed EPSON CLARIA prints ..Paul, if you’re reading this, can you share your experience in HOW you use this protectant?..I’ve been using Premiere Art Shield Lacquer, and it’s GREAT for LUSTRE or MATTE finish media, but dulls the glass-like surface of the glossy papers, obviously killing the liquid look ..How many coats do you apply?..How long does it take to dry?..Where have you found the best pricing for this spray?..My internet search tells me this stuff is quite expensive..At least $25-$30 for a small spray can of the UV Gloss….My largest prints (12x18”) would slurp up a can/cans in no time.

THX in advance to PAUL and others that may chime in.

Eddie Wiseman


RE: [Digital BW] LASCAUX Fixative for CLARIA on GLOSSY

2014-03-29 by Edward Wiseman

THX Paul..

Not knowing the situation, I probably would go and spring for the UV version, which wouldn’t buy me what I need..

Where do I find “Jerry’s”?

 

TIA,

 

Eddie
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Roark
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 10:48 AM
To: DigitalB&WPrint
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] LASCAUX Fixative for CLARIA on GLOSSY

 

  

Eddie,

 

I use the non-UV version of Lascaux Fixativ.  The UV version is just like Print Shield and negatively affects the surface characteristics of the paper.  Mark (of aardenburg-imaging.com <http://aardenburg-imaging.com> ) believes the thickness of the UV coatings is so thin that the protective effect is mostly from the reduction of the rate of oxidation.  I agree.  Consistent with this view is the fade testing results of the black ink.  At partial load it's relatively weak.  At full load, it's strong.  With the very low viscosity Lascaux we're using acrylic to fill the coating instead of more ink.

 

I have been using 4 coats, one each with vertical, horizontal, and 2 diagonal patterns.  It is probably best to allow drying between each coat.  I sometimes use a hair drier to speed this drying, sometimes not.

 

I'm in California and can spray all year in my open garage with cross-flow ventilation.  Wear goggles and don't breath.  I have a respirator that I use for very large prints.  Usually I just hold my breath during the spraying.

 

The concept here is to lock up the absorbent material in the coating but not disturb the highly engineered surface.  Figuring out exactly how much Lascaux is needed to accomplish this is the problem.  I don't have an answer there.  (That is part of why I've switched the printer ink setup to increase the lightfastness, just in case the spraying was less than totally effective.) 

 

Search for deals on Lascaux.  Sometimes Jerry's will have a sale.  I buy quite a few cans when that happens.

 

I have not done a lot of research on good and cheaper substitutes for Lascaux (non-UV).  I found it via a speech by a National Museum expert to the pastel painters' association.  It was one of the few 100% acrylic sprays he recommended.  The others seem to be gone -- some acquired by large paint companies that may or may not have changed the ingredients.  Lascaux has the original acrylic in it, which is non-yellowing.  Many if not most of the sprays will yellow.  I don't believe the ads on the cans after testing some "non-yellowing" sprays that yellowed in only 100 hours in my fader.

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com <http://www.PaulRoark.com>  

 

On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 4:27 AM, Edward Wiseman <pahts@... <mailto:pahts@...> > wrote:

  

    A Short while back Paul Roark mentioned the use of  LASCAUX  fixative spray for glossy B&W un-glazed EPSON CLARIA prints ..Paul, if you’re reading this, can you share your experience in HOW you use this protectant?..I’ve been using Premiere Art Shield Lacquer, and it’s GREAT for LUSTRE or MATTE finish media, but dulls the glass-like surface of the glossy papers, obviously killing the liquid look ..How many coats do you apply?..How long does it take to dry?..Where have you found the best pricing for this spray?..My internet search tells me this stuff is quite expensive..At least $25-$30 for a small spray can of the UV Gloss….My largest prints (12x18”) would slurp up a can/cans in no time.

THX in advance to PAUL and others that may chime in.

Eddie Wiseman

RE: [Digital BW] LASCAUX Fixative for CLARIA on GLOSSY

2014-03-29 by Elliot Puritz

As an MD, reading the protective measures that Paul needs to take when using the spray makes me very concerned about long term toxicity.  I understand the measures taken to avoid breathing in the vapors and micro particles.  However, do users of the spray take precautions to prevent particles in the spray from reaching the skin?  There can be massive absorption of organic compounds through the lipid barrier in the epidermis.  The blood supply of the skin would then allow transport of toxins through the entire body including the liver and nervous system. Long term deleterious effects would not be obvious for some time Paul and hence would be quite insidious.

 

Please be very careful.

 

Elliot
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Edward Wiseman
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 11:02 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] LASCAUX Fixative for CLARIA on GLOSSY

 

  

THX Paul..

Not knowing the situation, I probably would go and spring for the UV version, which wouldn’t buy me what I need..

Where do I find “Jerry’s”?

 

TIA,

 

Eddie

 

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Roark
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 10:48 AM
To: DigitalB&WPrint
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] LASCAUX Fixative for CLARIA on GLOSSY

 

  

Eddie,

 

I use the non-UV version of Lascaux Fixativ.  The UV version is just like Print Shield and negatively affects the surface characteristics of the paper.  Mark (of aardenburg-imaging.com) believes the thickness of the UV coatings is so thin that the protective effect is mostly from the reduction of the rate of oxidation.  I agree.  Consistent with this view is the fade testing results of the black ink.  At partial load it's relatively weak.  At full load, it's strong.  With the very low viscosity Lascaux we're using acrylic to fill the coating instead of more ink.

 

I have been using 4 coats, one each with vertical, horizontal, and 2 diagonal patterns.  It is probably best to allow drying between each coat.  I sometimes use a hair drier to speed this drying, sometimes not.

 

I'm in California and can spray all year in my open garage with cross-flow ventilation.  Wear goggles and don't breath.  I have a respirator that I use for very large prints.  Usually I just hold my breath during the spraying.

 

The concept here is to lock up the absorbent material in the coating but not disturb the highly engineered surface.  Figuring out exactly how much Lascaux is needed to accomplish this is the problem.  I don't have an answer there.  (That is part of why I've switched the printer ink setup to increase the lightfastness, just in case the spraying was less than totally effective.) 

 

Search for deals on Lascaux.  Sometimes Jerry's will have a sale.  I buy quite a few cans when that happens.

 

I have not done a lot of research on good and cheaper substitutes for Lascaux (non-UV).  I found it via a speech by a National Museum expert to the pastel painters' association.  It was one of the few 100% acrylic sprays he recommended.  The others seem to be gone -- some acquired by large paint companies that may or may not have changed the ingredients.  Lascaux has the original acrylic in it, which is non-yellowing.  Many if not most of the sprays will yellow.  I don't believe the ads on the cans after testing some "non-yellowing" sprays that yellowed in only 100 hours in my fader.

 

Paul

www.PaulRoark.com 

 

On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 4:27 AM, Edward Wiseman <pahts@...> wrote:

  

    A Short while back Paul Roark mentioned the use of  LASCAUX  fixative spray for glossy B&W un-glazed EPSON CLARIA prints ..Paul, if you’re reading this, can you share your experience in HOW you use this protectant?..I’ve been using Premiere Art Shield Lacquer, and it’s GREAT for LUSTRE or MATTE finish media, but dulls the glass-like surface of the glossy papers, obviously killing the liquid look ..How many coats do you apply?..How long does it take to dry?..Where have you found the best pricing for this spray?..My internet search tells me this stuff is quite expensive..At least $25-$30 for a small spray can of the UV Gloss….My largest prints (12x18”) would slurp up a can/cans in no time.

THX in advance to PAUL and others that may chime in.

Eddie Wiseman

Re: [Digital BW] LASCAUX Fixative for CLARIA on GLOSSY

2014-03-29 by Paul Roark

http://www.jerrysartarama.com/discount-art-supplies/sprays-and-fixatives.htm is one supplier that sometimes has good sales. (Almost everything is always on "sale" there.)

Dick Blick is an outfit I use a lot. See http://www.dickblick.com/products/lascaux-fine-art-fixative/

The spray I use is Lascaux Fixativ (or Fixative or Fixatif) 2070 -- the non-UV version. This is a solvent-based acrylic that penetrates the micro-porous surface of glossy papers.

It's expensive. It would be nice to find a good but cheaper substitute that not only was low viscosity, but also non-yellowing with a good nozzle.

Rohm and Haas Company was the source of the original, non-yellowing acrylic. That company is now part of a large American chemical company. That makes me wonder if they have a second product under a different name that is essentially the same. I can see them doing a private label through a large spray distributor.

The companies I'd trust most to sort out the qualities would be those that supply the pastel painters. Daniel Smith and Blick are a step ahead of Jerry's in their selectivity and knowledge. It does deserve some research here, as it's an important part of a really good glossy print solution. Locking a dye into the coating has a lot of appeal.

Note here that with some types of paper/coating, the higher viscosity sprays like Print Shield don't do that much "damage" to the look of the print. The thinner (slower to evaporate also) sprays that penetrate the micro-porous coating, like Lascaux are needed for my preferred Red River Polar Pearl Metallic. (I'm sure there are lots of metallic papers. This is just the one I use.)

Paul
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 8:02 AM, Edward Wiseman <pahts@...> wrote:

THX Paul..

Not knowing the situation, I probably would go and spring for the UV version, which wouldn’t buy me what I need..

Where do I find “Jerry’s”?

TIA,

Eddie

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Roark
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2014 10:48 AM
To: DigitalB&WPrint
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] LASCAUX Fixative for CLARIA on GLOSSY

Eddie,

I use the non-UV version of Lascaux Fixativ. The UV version is just like Print Shield and negatively affects the surface characteristics of the paper. Mark (of aardenburg-imaging.com) believes the thickness of the UV coatings is so thin that the protective effect is mostly from the reduction of the rate of oxidation. I agree. Consistent with this view is the fade testing results of the black ink. At partial load it's relatively weak. At full load, it's strong. With the very low viscosity Lascaux we're using acrylic to fill the coating instead of more ink.

I have been using 4 coats, one each with vertical, horizontal, and 2 diagonal patterns. It is probably best to allow drying between each coat. I sometimes use a hair drier to speed this drying, sometimes not.

I'm in California and can spray all year in my open garage with cross-flow ventilation. Wear goggles and don't breath. I have a respirator that I use for very large prints. Usually I just hold my breath during the spraying.

The concept here is to lock up the absorbent material in the coating but not disturb the highly engineered surface. Figuring out exactly how much Lascaux is needed to accomplish this is the problem. I don't have an answer there. (That is part of why I've switched the printer ink setup to increase the lightfastness, just in case the spraying was less than totally effective.)

Search for deals on Lascaux. Sometimes Jerry's will have a sale. I buy quite a few cans when that happens.

I have not done a lot of research on good and cheaper substitutes for Lascaux (non-UV). I found it via a speech by a National Museum expert to the pastel painters' association. It was one of the few 100% acrylic sprays he recommended. The others seem to be gone -- some acquired by large paint companies that may or may not have changed the ingredients. Lascaux has the original acrylic in it, which is non-yellowing. Many if not most of the sprays will yellow. I don't believe the ads on the cans after testing some "non-yellowing" sprays that yellowed in only 100 hours in my fader.

Paul

On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 4:27 AM, Edward Wiseman <pahts@...> wrote:

A Short while back Paul Roark mentioned the use of LASCAUX fixative spray for glossy B&W un-glazed EPSON CLARIA prints ..Paul, if you’re reading this, can you share your experience in HOW you use this protectant?..I’ve been using Premiere Art Shield Lacquer, and it’s GREAT for LUSTRE or MATTE finish media, but dulls the glass-like surface of the glossy papers, obviously killing the liquid look ..How many coats do you apply?..How long does it take to dry?..Where have you found the best pricing for this spray?..My internet search tells me this stuff is quite expensive..At least $25-$30 for a small spray can of the UV Gloss….My largest prints (12x18”) would slurp up a can/cans in no time.

THX in advance to PAUL and others that may chime in.

Eddie Wiseman


Re: [Digital BW] LASCAUX Fixative for CLARIA on GLOSSY

2014-03-29 by <roark.paul@...>

Here is some light reading for those interested in finding a good substitute for Lascaux:
It's probably easier to just try a few of the most likely cheap substitutes than try to understand all the chemistry.

The cheap Krylon Clear Acrylic spray might be worth trying again, but I found some of those I once tried to have such bad nozzles that even if the chemical was equivalent, the final product was not. Blick and others seem to have house brands.

Lascaux is B-72 (the real thing). I have no idea if there are newer formulations that have been able to exceed its performance.

Paul

Re: [Digital BW] LASCAUX Fixative for CLARIA on GLOSSY

2014-03-30 by Ernst Dinkla

On 29-03-14 15:47, Paul Roark wrote:
> Eddie,
>
> I use the non-UV version of Lascaux Fixativ.  The UV version is just like
> Print Shield and negatively affects the surface characteristics of the
> paper.  Mark (of aardenburg-imaging.com) believes the thickness of the UV
> coatings is so thin that the protective effect is mostly from the reduction
> of the rate of oxidation.  I agree.  Consistent with this view is the fade
> testing results of the black ink.  At partial load it's relatively weak.
>   At full load, it's strong.  With the very low viscosity Lascaux we're
> using acrylic to fill the coating instead of more ink.
>
> I have been using 4 coats, one each with vertical, horizontal, and 2
> diagonal patterns.  It is probably best to allow drying between each coat.
>   I sometimes use a hair drier to speed this drying, sometimes not.
>
> I'm in California and can spray all year in my open garage with cross-flow
> ventilation.  Wear goggles and don't breath.  I have a respirator that I
> use for very large prints.  Usually I just hold my breath during the
> spraying.
>
> The concept here is to lock up the absorbent material in the coating but
> not disturb the highly engineered surface.  Figuring out exactly how much
> Lascaux is needed to accomplish this is the problem.  I don't have an
> answer there.  (That is part of why I've switched the printer ink setup to
> increase the lightfastness, just in case the spraying was less than totally
> effective.)
>
> Search for deals on Lascaux.  Sometimes Jerry's will have a sale.  I buy
> quite a few cans when that happens.
>
> I have not done a lot of research on good and cheaper substitutes for
> Lascaux (non-UV).  I found it via a speech by a National Museum expert to
> the pastel painters' association.  It was one of the few 100% acrylic
> sprays he recommended.  The others seem to be gone -- some acquired by
> large paint companies that may or may not have changed the ingredients.
>   Lascaux has the original acrylic in it, which is non-yellowing.  Many if
> not most of the sprays will yellow.  I don't believe the ads on the cans
> after testing some "non-yellowing" sprays that yellowed in only 100 hours
> in my fader.
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com


Paul,

Check the Talens Protective Spray 680 too. It uses a white spirit 
cosolvent for the acrylic. Acrylic B-67 probably and not B-72 but I can 
not find the right description for it. The white spirit acts as a 
retardant so no build up on the velvet blacks of matte papers.
Your document referred to Shell Cyclo Sol 53 which became Cyclo Sol 100 
which became SHELLSOL A 100 in time. The last I know as an equivalent 
for white spirit in silkscreen printing so my guess is that Talens 680 
is related to that type of acrylic varnish mix described in the document 
you gave a link to.

I did spray different varnishes on silicon paper or polyethylene so i 
could remove the varnish layer to check its color and whether it 
hardened faster than the other ones. The Talens 680 showed good 
properties but it (the solvent) acts as a plasticizer on polyethylene 
(polyethylene swelled and kept that property) so for RC papers this is 
not a good varnish.
On a variety of matte papers it works well. The smell takes some time to 
disappear but I dislike it less than the amyl or ethyl odors of the 
other varnish types.

-- 
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.

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