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Green stuff in my brown prints

Green stuff in my brown prints

2014-07-23 by david@...

OK, I've noticed this problem for a while but have been dealing with other things and have another printer set up with an aftermarket B&W ink set.

My problem is with an Epson 3880 with OEM inks, printing on any matte surface paper you care to mention, but concentrating recently on watercolor papers. (Used mostly Red River Aurora before I decided to abandon coated papers entirely.)

I work strictly in Brown & White.

I put a solid color fill layer at the top of my layer stack in Photoshop. It is set to:


Hue 43

Saturation 100

Brightness 12,


or slight variations thereof. Saturation is always 100. Blend mode is always "color".


This should and often does make everything a pleasing brown. But once in a while, OK more often than that, parts of the image go green. A noticeable, 'I can't sell a print that looks like this', green!

It is much more noticeable on Arches Hot Press than on Arches Cold Press, for example. Go figure.

Any ideas/suggestions on what could be causing this? I could take a couple guesses (metamerism, diffraction, gypsies), but I'd rather hear something more thought out.

BTW, changes to rendering intent in the print dialog have zero effect. It seems to occur in transitions from dark to light. It is at its worst in my top selling image. (Who coulda guessed!?)


Any and all ideas will be much appreciated.


Re: [Digital BW] Green stuff in my brown prints

2014-07-23 by John Castronovo

It sure sounds as if you need to get a custom profile for that paper with your inks.
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From: mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2014 9:43 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
Subject: [Digital BW] Green stuff in my brown prints




OK, I've noticed this problem for a while but have been dealing with other things and have another printer set up with an aftermarket B&W ink set.

My problem is with an Epson 3880 with OEM inks, printing on any matte surface paper you care to mention, but concentrating recently on watercolor papers. (Used mostly Red River Aurora before I decided to abandon coated papers entirely.)

I work strictly in Brown & White.

I put a solid color fill layer at the top of my layer stack in Photoshop. It is set to:




Hue 43

Saturation 100

Brightness 12,




or slight variations thereof. Saturation is always 100. Blend mode is always "color".




This should and often does make everything a pleasing brown. But once in a while, OK more often than that, parts of the image go green. A noticeable, 'I can't sell a print that looks like this', green! 

It is much more noticeable on Arches Hot Press than on Arches Cold Press, for example. Go figure.

Any ideas/suggestions on what could be causing this? I could take a couple guesses (metamerism, diffraction, gypsies), but I'd rather hear something more thought out.

BTW, changes to rendering intent in the print dialog have zero effect. It seems to occur in transitions from dark to light. It is at its worst in my top selling image. (Who coulda guessed!?)




Any and all ideas will be much appreciated.








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Re: [Digital BW] Green stuff in my brown prints

2014-07-23 by David Kachel

It sure sounds as if you need to get a custom profile for that paper with
your inks.



Thanks John, but I have custom profiles. That is not the problem.



David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

www.davidkachel.com
david@...

PO Box  93
Fort Davis, TX 79734
(432) 386-5787

Re: Green stuff in my brown prints

2014-07-23 by dlruckus@...

I,m assuming you're printing in full color mode but in any event the possibilities are pretty much the same.
To get green you have to be losing magenta somewhere.That would indicate it's probable that you have a restriction in ink flow somewhere along the line.If you have good nozzles then it would argue for ink starvation as the cause also.Your mention that it varies from image to image and happens over density transitions likewise follows that potential cause.

I don't have your machine model but if it uses dampers I would look there first for the problem as magenta clogs and near clogs are ubiquitous these days.Exactly where the greens show up might help distinguish between the dark or light magenta as the culprit and when they show up can be another sign of starvation problems.(eg:1st print right off the bat or somewhere later in the print or print series.)

One other possibility,if what you state as brown is a subtle tint, is that the ink set simply can't generate such from a full color set reliably.It is like trying to generate dead neutral images from color inks.It's a very tricky deal.

Hope this helps with a starting point at least.
Best,
Duane

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Green stuff in my brown prints

2014-07-23 by pdesmidt tds.net

Try putting a BW adjustment layer or a hue adjustment de-saturation layer right below your solid color fill layer. The idea would be to get rid of all of the color in the image before putting on the fill layer.
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On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 1:04 PM, dlruckus@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I,m assuming you're printing in full color mode but in any event the possibilities are pretty much the same.
To get green you have to be losing magenta somewhere.That would indicate it's probable that you have a restriction in ink flow somewhere along the line.If you have good nozzles then it would argue for ink starvation as the cause also.Your mention that it varies from image to image and happens over density transitions likewise follows that potential cause.

I don't have your machine model but if it uses dampers I would look there first for the problem as magenta clogs and near clogs are ubiquitous these days.Exactly where the greens show up might help distinguish between the dark or light magenta as the culprit and when they show up can be another sign of starvation problems.(eg:1st print right off the bat or somewhere later in the print or print series.)

One other possibility,if what you state as brown is a subtle tint, is that the ink set simply can't generate such from a full color set reliably.It is like trying to generate dead neutral images from color inks.It's a very tricky deal.

Hope this helps with a starting point at least.
Best,
Duane


Re: Green stuff in my brown prints

2014-07-24 by Lincoln Fajardo

DavidK,

It's not clear if your problem is in (1) reprinting the same image or 
(2) variations between images.

If (1), then I'd do the the paper towel / windex under the print head 
and clean off the ink wiper blade. Both can contaminate the head with 
undesired pigments, cyan & yellow.

If (2), do (1) first. Then I'd use ABW in the epson driver to get the 
desired hue. I assume that you are adding the color layer to a BW stack 
in PS. If not, all bets are off.

Lincoln

Re: [Digital BW] Green stuff in my brown prints

2014-07-26 by Leslie Otterbein

Hi David:

Have you tried the print alignment utility? If your colours are out of register there may be colour changes from one end to another. This is what happens on printing presses sometimes, especially with large screen fills.

Leslie Otterbein
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On Jul 22, 2014, at 6:43 PM, david@...m [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> 
> OK, I've noticed this problem for a while but have been dealing with other things and have another printer set up with an aftermarket B&W ink set.
> 
> My problem is with an Epson 3880 with OEM inks, printing on any matte surface paper you care to mention, but concentrating recently on watercolor papers. (Used mostly Red River Aurora before I decided to abandon coated papers entirely.)
> 
> I work strictly in Brown & White.
> 
> I put a solid color fill layer at the top of my layer stack in Photoshop. It is set to:
> 
> 
> 
> Hue 43
> 
> Saturation 100
> 
> Brightness 12,
> 
> 
> 
> or slight variations thereof. Saturation is always 100. Blend mode is always "color".
> 
> 
> 
> This should and often does make everything a pleasing brown. But once in a while, OK more often than that, parts of the image go green. A noticeable, 'I can't sell a print that looks like this', green! 
> 
>  It is much more noticeable on Arches Hot Press than on Arches Cold Press, for example. Go figure.
> 
> Any ideas/suggestions on what could be causing this? I could take a couple guesses (metamerism, diffraction, gypsies), but I'd rather hear something more thought out.
> 
> BTW, changes to rendering intent in the print dialog have zero effect. It seems to occur in transitions from dark to light. It is at its worst in my top selling image. (Who coulda guessed!?)
> 
> 
> 
> Any and all ideas will be much appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

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