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STS- C6 ink set

STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-26 by kellyhealy@...

I purchased a 220 ml matt k cartridge from STS Sucked it dry.. I made uo a standard C6 inkset. no K in the yellow. I am by far no expert but I love to fiddle.

I made up a 21 step profile for arches BRT White. There was a slight increase in Dmax When compared to the MIS C6 in run in another 1400. The STS profile was dead straight before linerizing. Using the North light 51 step tst print The STS is definitely the stronger print.I have not yet created QTR profile.

I also made up a C6 STS K+MIS 2 K ink set. I got a 1.63 dmax using Paul's QTR profiles.

Using the straight STS ink set and addiding K in the Yellow I got a 1.69 dmax.

I also tested with Han German etch. and got a 1.75 Dmax and a very nice 51 test print. I did not test Paul's Icc's yet.

These t tests may not be a valid way to test, and are definitely subjective. they may also be in the realm of opinions. And we know what they are worth.

But as Paul says "Enjoy the Journey"

Kelly

A footnote I am using a Spyder for the profiles



RE: [Digital BW] STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-26 by Elliot Puritz

Kelly-Sorry to be naïve, but does "STS" stand for?

 

Elliot
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 9:01 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] STS- C6 ink set

 

  

I purchased a 220 ml matt k cartridge from STS Sucked it dry.. I made uo a standard C6 inkset. no K in the yellow. I am by far no expert but I love to fiddle.

 I made up a 21 step profile for arches BRT White.  There was a slight increase in Dmax When compared to the MIS  C6 in run in another 1400.  The STS profile was dead straight before linerizing. Using the North light 51 step tst print The STS is definitely the stronger print.I have not yet created QTR profile. 

I also made up a C6 STS K+MIS 2 K ink set. I got a 1.63 dmax using Paul's QTR profiles.

Using the straight STS ink set and addiding K in the Yellow I got a  1.69 dmax.

I also tested with Han German etch. and got a 1.75 Dmax and a very nice 51 test print. I did not test Paul's Icc's yet.

These t tests may not be a valid way to test, and are definitely subjective.  they may also be in the realm of opinions.  And we know what they are worth.

But as Paul says "Enjoy the Journey"

Kelly

A footnote I am using a Spyder for the profiles

RE: [Digital BW] STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-26 by kellyhealy@...

Sorry should have been clearer
STS is the ink company that bought Ink Supply (MIS)
Paul has been experimenting with their inks and has published some very preliminary test work. Here are some links


‎www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Carbon-Variable-Tone.pdf
Replacement Printer Ink & Discount Ink Cartridges | W...
Premier wide format ink replacements. Buy replacement printer ink cartridges and save money. High quality discount ink.
View on www.stsinks.com
Preview by Yahoo


















Re: [Digital BW] STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-26 by Paul Roark

The STS MK I'm testing is what they claim is the previous Image Specialists' input for Eboni -- called WJ1082. STS says it is different from their other MK. It would be interesting to see if it really is different.

Do you have some full 21-step test strip Lab L, A and B readings for Arches BW for the STS MK? If you have the full 21-step results for the MIS Eb6 or Carbon-6 with the MIS Eboni, with the same ink arrangement, that would be the best comparison (same spectro). What I'm trying to find is the comparison of the dilute ink Lab readings for the old v. new alternatives.

Note that the STS wj1082 has a major dry-down increase in dmax overnight. I've read up to 1.77, with 1.75 being common where 2 MKs are firing.

Note also that you'll often get a better dmax if the 21-step is vertical on the paper as opposed to horizontal across the paper. I spectulate that the vertical placement gives the ink a bit longer to dry before a second pass hits it. In testing the 2% mix, I see a significant difference in the blotchiness due, I believe, to dot gain or ink spread at the 100% end of the QTR tests when comparing horizontal to vertial 21-step placement.

At any rate, if you have those full 21-step test strip Lab readings that would show same-dilution comparisons, that would be very useful.

BTW, I've reverse engineered the Edwal LFN and Photo Flo 200 formulas. They are now in:
at footnotes 10 and 16. While I'm at it, I've ordered samples of some new surfactants to test. I';ll publish whatever formulas I come up with if I find a new and better mix. So, far, I'd stay with the existing ones as long as the surfactants are available. Photo Flo 200 appears to be restricted to in-store sales now at B&H and Adorama. If need be I or MIS might come up with a surfactant blend that only needs to be mixed with water and glycerol (readily available) and is easy to ship.

Paul

Paul
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 6:01 AM, kellyhealy@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I purchased a 220 ml matt k cartridge from STS Sucked it dry.. I made uo a standard C6 inkset. no K in the yellow. I am by far no expert but I love to fiddle.

I made up a 21 step profile for arches BRT White. There was a slight increase in Dmax When compared to the MIS C6 in run in another 1400. The STS profile was dead straight before linerizing. Using the North light 51 step tst print The STS is definitely the stronger print.I have not yet created QTR profile.

I also made up a C6 STS K+MIS 2 K ink set. I got a 1.63 dmax using Paul's QTR profiles.

Using the straight STS ink set and addiding K in the Yellow I got a 1.69 dmax.

I also tested with Han German etch. and got a 1.75 Dmax and a very nice 51 test print. I did not test Paul's Icc's yet.

These t tests may not be a valid way to test, and are definitely subjective. they may also be in the realm of opinions. And we know what they are worth.

But as Paul says "Enjoy the Journey"

Kelly

A footnote I am using a Spyder for the profiles




RE: [Digital BW] STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-26 by Elliot Puritz

Thanks Kelly.

 

For curiosity, have you tried the Jon Cone Carbon ink set in the 1400/1430?  Jon's inks have the reputation as being very reliably formulated and consistent from batch to batch ( as I believe were the version of Eboni 6 inks sold by MIS ).  Please note that I am NOT acting as an agent for Jon's inks which I have NOT compared with the MIS Ebony v.1!  Nevertheless, I plan to try the Cone set and compare my subjective impressions of prints made with the MIS Eboni inks vs. those made with Jon's inks. 

 

However, I am curious as to whether or not objective comparisons have been done using the two inks sets.  A talented colleague of mine has suggested that he might be willing to compare the two sets using objective standards and targets and of course a spectrophotometer.  I imagine that he might also use various QTR profiles with each ink set in order to compare " out of the box " solutions for those desiring to use QTR with either of the Carbon sets. Such information would surely be welcomed by many.

 

Elliot
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 9:53 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] STS- C6 ink set

 

  

Kelly-Sorry to be naïve, but does "STS" stand for?

 

Elliot

 

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 9:01 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] STS- C6 ink set

 

  

I purchased a 220 ml matt k cartridge from STS Sucked it dry.. I made uo a standard C6 inkset. no K in the yellow. I am by far no expert but I love to fiddle.

 I made up a 21 step profile for arches BRT White.  There was a slight increase in Dmax When compared to the MIS  C6 in run in another 1400.  The STS profile was dead straight before linerizing. Using the North light 51 step tst print The STS is definitely the stronger print.I have not yet created QTR profile. 

I also made up a C6 STS K+MIS 2 K ink set. I got a 1.63 dmax using Paul's QTR profiles.

Using the straight STS ink set and addiding K in the Yellow I got a  1.69 dmax.

I also tested with Han German etch. and got a 1.75 Dmax and a very nice 51 test print. I did not test Paul's Icc's yet.

These t tests may not be a valid way to test, and are definitely subjective.  they may also be in the realm of opinions.  And we know what they are worth.

But as Paul says "Enjoy the Journey"

Kelly

A footnote I am using a Spyder for the profiles

RE: [Digital BW] STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-26 by kellyhealy@...

I used Cone's ink in the 1400 about a year ago when I was given several a partial sets about a year or so ago. I was impressed, but way beyond what I wanted to pay. However I have been using MIS inks in various fems for a long time.(2007, epson 1280-C220 C86) I really got started with Clayton Jones approach using different papers to achieve different tones and no profiles.
Paul Roark"s C6 -EB6 approach has or is in my opinion the potential to surpass cone"s approach. Cone is very propietry and he has every right to be. I have no problem with that. I use his Cone color pro in my 3880. Hmm Cone's color inks - STS icolor inks.They seem to make many of the same claims, For the most part true}
I take great pleasure in the "journey"
Please be sure to contribute on Paul's website. We would not be where we are today without him.
I have not a clue what STS stands for, just company name
Below is a link to Clayton Jones.
Kelly

Re: [Digital BW] STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-26 by Paul Roark

You can see from http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/ tests what the color values are. What made "Eboni" unique was the relatively low Lab B rise from the paper white, particularly on some papers.

Paul

On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 8:16 AM, 'Elliot Puritz' drpuritz@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m> wrote:

Thanks Kelly.

For curiosity, have you tried the Jon Cone Carbon ink set in the 1400/1430? Jon's inks have the reputation as being very reliably formulated and consistent from batch to batch ( as I believe were the version of Eboni 6 inks sold by MIS ). Please note that I am NOT acting as an agent for Jon's inks which I have NOT compared with the MIS Ebony v.1! Nevertheless, I plan to try the Cone set and compare my subjective impressions of prints made with the MIS Eboni inks vs. those made with Jon's inks.

However, I am curious as to whether or not objective comparisons have been done using the two inks sets. A talented colleague of mine has suggested that he might be willing to compare the two sets using objective standards and targets and of course a spectrophotometer. I imagine that he might also use various QTR profiles with each ink set in order to compare " out of the box " solutions for those desiring to use QTR with either of the Carbon sets. Such information would surely be welcomed by many.

Elliot

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 9:53 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] STS- C6 ink set

Kelly-Sorry to be naïve, but does "STS" stand for?

Elliot

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 9:01 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] STS- C6 ink set

I purchased a 220 ml matt k cartridge from STS Sucked it dry.. I made uo a standard C6 inkset. no K in the yellow. I am by far no expert but I love to fiddle.

I made up a 21 step profile for arches BRT White. There was a slight increase in Dmax When compared to the MIS C6 in run in another 1400. The STS profile was dead straight before linerizing. Using the North light 51 step tst print The STS is definitely the stronger print.I have not yet created QTR profile.

I also made up a C6 STS K+MIS 2 K ink set. I got a 1.63 dmax using Paul's QTR profiles.

Using the straight STS ink set and addiding K in the Yellow I got a 1.69 dmax.

I also tested with Han German etch. and got a 1.75 Dmax and a very nice 51 test print. I did not test Paul's Icc's yet.

These t tests may not be a valid way to test, and are definitely subjective. they may also be in the realm of opinions. And we know what they are worth.

But as Paul says "Enjoy the Journey"

Kelly

A footnote I am using a Spyder for the profiles


Re: [Digital BW] STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-26 by kellyhealy@...

Paul

I didn't mention I did my printing on Arches bright white as I was out of reg Arches. I will have reg Arches Monday or Tuesday and will print the step wedges then. The ink I used was for the 7880 STS #E78P-220MBK. I was just looking for enough ink to play with. If you can give me a STS part # iI will order some Wihen when my retirement check arrives the 1st.
Kelly

RE: [Digital BW] STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-26 by Gary

I have used Mis Eboni and Jon Cone Carbon and Selenium ink sets in Epson printers. I found them both to make excellent quality black and white prints with beautiful tones. I have standardized on the Cone inks due to the consistent quality of the product, the excellent service I have received from Jon and his team and wide variety of black and white products offered. Cone does have sample prints available if you are interested in the tones available.

Best Wishes,

Gary Wagner

www.garywagner.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 8:17 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] STS- C6 ink set

 

  

Thanks Kelly.

 

For curiosity, have you tried the Jon Cone Carbon ink set in the 1400/1430?  Jon's inks have the reputation as being very reliably formulated and consistent from batch to batch ( as I believe were the version of Eboni 6 inks sold by MIS ).  Please note that I am NOT acting as an agent for Jon's inks which I have NOT compared with the MIS Ebony v.1!  Nevertheless, I plan to try the Cone set and compare my subjective impressions of prints made with the MIS Eboni inks vs. those made with Jon's inks. 

 

However, I am curious as to whether or not objective comparisons have been done using the two inks sets.  A talented colleague of mine has suggested that he might be willing to compare the two sets using objective standards and targets and of course a spectrophotometer.  I imagine that he might also use various QTR profiles with each ink set in order to compare " out of the box " solutions for those desiring to use QTR with either of the Carbon sets. Such information would surely be welcomed by many.

 

Elliot

Re: [Digital BW] STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-26 by Paul Roark

Kelly,

Arches Bright White is what I use also. With any of the dilute inks or a full set of Carb-6, if you can provide the 21-step test strip LAB readings it'll help me determine if they are selling the same ink under different names.

Thanks,

Paul
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 9:23 AM, kellyhealy@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Paul


I didn't mention I did my printing on Arches bright white as I was out of reg Arches. I will have reg Arches Monday or Tuesday and will print the step wedges then. The ink I used was for the 7880 STS #E78P-220MBK. I was just looking for enough ink to play with. If you can give me a STS part # iI will order some Wihen when my retirement check arrives the 1st.
Kelly


Re: [Digital BW] STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-26 by kellyhealy@...

I can do the strips weekend. Do you want me to post on forum or I can send to you by email?
Your comment about vertical vs horizontal differences has me flummoxed. I am a papermaker. I used to make most of my Rag watercolor paper and custom papers for other watercolorists I lost my calendar in a fire 20 years ago ( Hand operated (think etching press with a heated roller, still used by a papermaker in France). I have one half built but no building to put it in yet. My goal is to print hand laid with four deckle edges. I have worked out how to get it through printer with out head strikes.
Any thoughts on why vertical vs horizontal.
This is totally off subject. If you have any thoughts you can reply to my
email
Kelly




---In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, <roark.paul@...> wrote :

Kelly,

Arches Bright White is what I use also. With any of the dilute inks or a full set of Carb-6, if you can provide the 21-step test strip LAB readings it'll help me determine if they are selling the same ink under different names.

Thanks,

Paul
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 9:23 AM, kellyhealy@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Paul


I didn't mention I did my printing on Arches bright white as I was out of reg Arches. I will have reg Arches Monday or Tuesday and will print the step wedges then. The ink I used was for the 7880 STS #E78P-220MBK. I was just looking for enough ink to play with. If you can give me a STS part # iI will order some Wihen when my retirement check arrives the 1st.
Kelly


RE: [Digital BW] STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-26 by Elliot Puritz

Thanks Gary.  I too have used several Cone ink sets in the 2880.  I completely agree.

 

Elliot
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 12:31 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] STS- C6 ink set

 

  

I have used Mis Eboni and Jon Cone Carbon and Selenium ink sets in Epson printers. I found them both to make excellent quality black and white prints with beautiful tones. I have standardized on the Cone inks due to the consistent quality of the product, the excellent service I have received from Jon and his team and wide variety of black and white products offered. Cone does have sample prints available if you are interested in the tones available.

Best Wishes,

Gary Wagner

www.garywagner.com

 

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 8:17 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] STS- C6 ink set

 

  

Thanks Kelly.

 

For curiosity, have you tried the Jon Cone Carbon ink set in the 1400/1430?  Jon's inks have the reputation as being very reliably formulated and consistent from batch to batch ( as I believe were the version of Eboni 6 inks sold by MIS ).  Please note that I am NOT acting as an agent for Jon's inks which I have NOT compared with the MIS Ebony v.1!  Nevertheless, I plan to try the Cone set and compare my subjective impressions of prints made with the MIS Eboni inks vs. those made with Jon's inks. 

 

However, I am curious as to whether or not objective comparisons have been done using the two inks sets.  A talented colleague of mine has suggested that he might be willing to compare the two sets using objective standards and targets and of course a spectrophotometer.  I imagine that he might also use various QTR profiles with each ink set in order to compare " out of the box " solutions for those desiring to use QTR with either of the Carbon sets. Such information would surely be welcomed by many.

 

Elliot

Re: [Digital BW] STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-26 by Paul Roark

Kelly,

You can post or send to me direct at roark.paul@....

I would not worry about the horizontal v. vertical printing. It appears to be just an artifact of the testing with the 100% patch at the end of the test strip as far as I can tell. I'm not sure what is really going on, but the QTR calibration mode test strips and vertical 21-step test strips with 0-100 profiles look alike, while the horizontal ones have more evidence of overloading at and near the 100% load end.

Getting deckle edges to load right and print without head strikes can be a problem. If you paper is internally gelatin sized, try ironing the edges.

Paul
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 9:57 AM, kellyhealy@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I can do the strips weekend. Do you want me to post on forum or I can send to you by email?

Your comment about vertical vs horizontal differences has me flummoxed. I am a papermaker. I used to make most of my Rag watercolor paper and custom papers for other watercolorists I lost my calendar in a fire 20 years ago ( Hand operated (think etching press with a heated roller, still used by a papermaker in France). I have one half built but no building to put it in yet. My goal is to print hand laid with four deckle edges. I have worked out how to get it through printer with out head strikes.
Any thoughts on why vertical vs horizontal.
This is totally off subject. If you have any thoughts you can reply to my
email
Kelly




---In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Kelly,

Arches Bright White is what I use also. With any of the dilute inks or a full set of Carb-6, if you can provide the 21-step test strip LAB readings it'll help me determine if they are selling the same ink under different names.

Thanks,

Paul

On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 9:23 AM, kellyhealy@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Paul


I didn't mention I did my printing on Arches bright white as I was out of reg Arches. I will have reg Arches Monday or Tuesday and will print the step wedges then. The ink I used was for the 7880 STS #E78P-220MBK. I was just looking for enough ink to play with. If you can give me a STS part # iI will order some Wihen when my retirement check arrives the 1st.
Kelly



RE: [Digital BW] STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-26 by Elliot Puritz

Thanks Kelly.  I will take a look at the links.

 

I too use different papers when different tones are needed.

 

The statement concerning C6 and EB6 interests me….might you tell us why you favor the EB6 approach?  Have you done some objective testing or do you simply prefer the print tones and details from one set to another?  

 

I will indeed contribute to Paul's informative site.  There is no escaping the conclusion that without Paul's hard work and continuing efforts ( not to mention his willingness to share information freely and without cost ) the state of black and white digital printing would not be at the high level that it is today.

 

Elliot
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 11:59 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] STS- C6 ink set

 

  

I used Cone's ink in the 1400 about a year ago when I was given several a partial sets about a year or so ago. I was impressed, but way beyond what I wanted to pay. However I have been using MIS  inks in various fems for a long time.(2007, epson 1280-C220 C86) I really got started with Clayton Jones approach using different papers to achieve different tones and no profiles.

Paul Roark"s C6 -EB6 approach has or is in my opinion the potential to surpass cone"s approach.  Cone is very propietry and he has every right to be. I have no problem with that.  I use his Cone color pro in my 3880. Hmm  Cone's color inks - STS icolor inks.They seem to make many of the same claims, For the most part true} 

I take great pleasure in the "journey"

 Please be sure to contribute on Paul's website. We would not be where we are today without him.

I have not a clue what STS  stands for, just company name

Below is a link to Clayton Jones. 

Kelly

Black And White Digital Printing <http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm>

Re: STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-26 by richard@...

I wasn't exactly clear about what you meant by " I made up a 21 step profile for arches BRT White. ... The STS profile was dead straight before linerizing. ... I have not yet created QTR profile. "

Do you just mean that you read a 21-step wedge that was made with an existing profile or just making a single channel print of a 21-step target (black only) and measuring that.

It is great that the STS matte black is giving such good dmax. It is much better than what I am measuring with both Cone and MIS matte black, which top out at 1.65-1.7 with most papers. What will be interesting is seeing the rate it reaches the dmax before leveling off or reversing density.

After looking into it a little, it seems that the matte black referenced is the same as (or interchangeable with) what is used in the epson K3 inkset? I went to STS website, and all that is available there are prefilled carts. Investigating further makes it nearly impossible to understand where all these off brand inks are coming from.

The blotchiness I've noticed with the current MIS inks is that it tends to clear up as it dries—especially around the 50% mark with a full 6-dilution profile. The exception is for the single black channel around 0-10% density, but I would think this is probably from dithering more than anything else.

Re: STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-26 by michael3442@...

Here's a link to Cone's ink manufacturer in Taiwan. Note that InkjetMall (lower left corner) is referred to as the U.S. Agent; I take this to mean he has the exclusive right to distribute these inks in the U.S..
http://www.neomark.com.tw/index.html

Re: [Digital BW] Re: STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-26 by David Kachel

Here's a link to Cone's ink manufacturer in Taiwan. Note that InkjetMall (lower left corner) is referred to as the U.S. Agent; I take this to mean he has the exclusive right to distribute these inks in the U.S.


I thought Cone has always claimed to make his own inks.
Didn\u2019t he also travel to China to have cartridges designed for the Epson 3880, specifically to his specifications?

Just quoting.


David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

WEBSITE: www.davidkachel.com
BLOG: thetransparentphotographer.com
EMAIL: david@davidkachel.com

PO Box 93
Fort Davis, TX 79734
(432) 386-5787


Re: STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-27 by Kelly Healy

To richard
I wasn’t clear.. Profile made from a 21 step target using color vision spectro and dropped into
QTR linierize script ( not  before but after) then into icc RGB to make a profile.  I have not made an ink separation QTR profile yet.
I don’t know anything about the origin of STS inks.  I was only experimenting with the CVT article by Paul. Maybe he knows.

To  Elliot
EB6 is the MIS branded already made up inkset.  The same formula as C6 which is the ink set made from the formula published by Paul by the user. you can make up the base and add inks or buy base from MIS and add inks
Happy Thanksgiving everyone
Kelly

RE: [Digital BW] Re: STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-27 by Elliot Puritz

Hi David:

 

Simply because the inks are manufactured elsewhere does not necessarily mean
that Jon is not "manufacturing" his own inks.  The inks might be
manufactured to his specifications in China, and then diluted in the USA; or
the dilutions might also be done in China to Jon's specifications using
quality controls that are developed by Jon. Just as long Jon's inks are
consistent from batch to batch does it matter where the inks are indeed
made?  

 

To my mind the only important thing is that Jon takes the ultimate
responsibility for his products which have apparently stood the test of
time.  

 

I might add that with reference to manufacturing,  to my mind the same
situation obtains for the new STS inks.

 

Also, can we agree that many things are made in China to specifications that
are delineated in the USA-including ( perhaps ) ink carts and thousands of
other products including the Apple Computers that many of us use in our
digital photographic efforts!  Nothing wrong with ink carts from China made
to Jon's specs.

 

Have a great holiday David.

 

Elliot
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 6:35 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: STS- C6 ink set

 

  

Here's a link to Cone's ink manufacturer in Taiwan. Note that InkjetMall
(lower left corner) is referred to as the U.S. Agent; I take this to mean he
has the exclusive right to distribute these inks in the U.S.

 

 

I thought Cone has always claimed to make his own inks.

Didn't he also travel to China to have cartridges designed for the Epson
3880, specifically to his specifications?

 

Just quoting.

 

 

David Kachel

 

___________________

 

Artist-Photographer

Fine B&W Photographs

 

WEBSITE: www.davidkachel.com

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RE: [Digital BW] Re: STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-27 by Elliot Puritz

Thanks Kelly.  Best to you as well.

Elliot
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-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 9:40 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: STS- C6 ink set

To richard
I wasn't clear.. Profile made from a 21 step target using color vision
spectro and dropped into QTR linierize script ( not  before but after) then
into icc RGB to make a profile.  I have not made an ink separation QTR
profile yet.
I don't know anything about the origin of STS inks.  I was only
experimenting with the CVT article by Paul. Maybe he knows.

To  Elliot
EB6 is the MIS branded already made up inkset.  The same formula as C6 which
is the ink set made from the formula published by Paul by the user. you can
make up the base and add inks or buy base from MIS and add inks Happy
Thanksgiving everyone Kelly






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Re: STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-28 by richard@...

Kelly, to restate my question: You can't print a 21-step target without defining a QTR curve/ink and paper profile (not an ICC profile) with which to print it . So unless you are using the Epson driver, you are using one of Paul's premade qtr curve/profiles, which would already be linearized. I'm just curious which profile, of if you used the Epson driver.

I tool a look at Pauls variable tone curves, and it is an interesting approach to change the color of the print by not using the warmer diluted carbon inks, or using the EB-6 curves in conjunction with the "k2" variable tone curves. I did a similar thing with 5 dilutions from the MIS inkset and a single channel of a Jon Cone shade 5 selenium that I used as a toning ink. It didn't have as drastic an effect as blending a full k3 selenium set with a k3 Eboni set, but it still make a slightly more neutral print.
Richard Boutwell

Re: STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-28 by kellyhealy@...

OK somebody tell me if I have been doing this wrong since forever.

I use the 21 step 2.2 gamma scale from Paul Roark. I print that with Roy's print tool no color management on the paper i wish to profile. I let that dry overnight. I the read the scale with a spyder and get a text that has all the lab values.. I drop that into the linierize QTR script get another text and drop that into the icc script which gives me aan icc profile. I then can make a print using the Epson driver
Kelly


Re: STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-28 by kellyhealy@...

To further clarify. I may or may not make a profile to print through the QTR driver depending on my requirements for the paper or ifI want to use QTR's blending modes.
Paul please tell me if this is what you want me to send you?
Kelly

RE: [Digital BW] Re: STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-28 by Elliot Puritz

How do the prints look Kelly?

 

Elliot
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From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2014 1:49 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: STS- C6 ink set

 

  

OK somebody tell me if I have been doing this wrong since forever.

 

I use the 21 step 2.2 gamma scale from Paul Roark.  I print that with Roy's print tool no color management on the paper i wish to profile. I let that dry overnight. I the read the scale with a spyder and get a text that has all the lab values.. I drop that into the linierize QTR script get another text and drop that into the icc script which gives me aan icc profile. I then can make a print using the Epson driver

Kelly

Re: STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-28 by richard@...

No, that is not correct—at least not how I have ever used QTR or my understanding of how ICC profiles work, with QTR or normal OEM printing. There is no way the Epson driver will define how much of each of the different dilutions to lay down when using a 6 gray ink inkset no matter what ICC profile you use. Especially if the ICC profile created was made using QTR.

When you define the "paper" you want to print on using QTR, you are defining qtr profile (the set of overlapping ink curves) that has already had the ink limits, overlaps, gray curve, toning inks, and final linearization already set.

When you drop the measurement data file from the 21-step file onto the linearize data script all you are doing is stripping all the XYZ and header information out of the measurement data and getting you a string of L*ab values (as measured—not corrected for linearity) and a graph. If you are creating a profile from scratch you can then take that LINEARIZE="..." string and paste it at the end of the .qdif/.txt file, then resave and re-run the install script (on a mac). There is a behind the scenes function that takes the measument data and creates a new .quad file that is adjusted for linearity.

You then reprint a 51-step target with the new profile to confirm the linearization was succesful and to create the ICC profile for that paper and QTR profile so it makes corrections for what is printed and what is defined in the file. You don't actually need to run the linearized measurement data file through the linearize data script again. You just need to run the create icc, (which gives you the same graph as the linearize data script) and icc profile (as long as the lab values are constantly increasing).

If you print with the ICC profile you just created you still need to define the QTR Profile for that paper and printer, in addition to the ICC profile that you created for that paper and printer. It is like using the same media settings used to create an RGB ICC profile with a normal color managed workflow using the OEM driver or higher end RIP. If the printing parameters are different than what was used to create the profile then the correction will be off.

If you print through photoshop with "photoshop defines colors" using the correct ICC Profile you still need to set the associated QTR profile in the "print settings" window.

I have never worked that way. For the majority of my work, I always preferred the linear "curve" and more open shadows that the no color management settings give and never bothered to use the QTR icc profiles, except to occasionally soft proof. That being said, my own workflow is based on years of doing it the same way and being able to predict the results of the prints based on the profiles I make, and not using an ICC profile or other default correction curves/transfer functions for different papers.

Hope this clears some of this up and doesn't stir up the much too much.

Richard Boutwell

Re: [Digital BW] Re: STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-28 by Paul Roark

At the risk of confusing the thread, I just want to chime in that an inkset like Eboni-6 can be controlled with the Epson driver and an ICC. When an ICC is used, it can (but does not need to) have an Adobe RGB image adjustment curve embedded in it that controls the C, M and Y ink channels separately. That, for example, can control the print tone to a certain extent in the beta "Carbon Variable Tone" inkset I've described. That ICC will also "linearize" the print in the sense of matching it to the working space, making the workflow "color managed."

Paul
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On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 1:30 PM, richard@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

No, that is not correct—at least not how I have ever used QTR or my understanding of how ICC profiles work, with QTR or normal OEM printing. There is no way the Epson driver will define how much of each of the different dilutions to lay down when using a 6 gray ink inkset no matter what ICC profile you use. Especially if the ICC profile created was made using QTR.


When you define the "paper" you want to print on using QTR, you are defining qtr profile (the set of overlapping ink curves) that has already had the ink limits, overlaps, gray curve, toning inks, and final linearization already set.

When you drop the measurement data file from the 21-step file onto the linearize data script all you are doing is stripping all the XYZ and header information out of the measurement data and getting you a string of L*ab values (as measured—not corrected for linearity) and a graph. If you are creating a profile from scratch you can then take that LINEARIZE="..." string and paste it at the end of the .qdif/.txt file, then resave and re-run the install script (on a mac). There is a behind the scenes function that takes the measument data and creates a new .quad file that is adjusted for linearity.

You then reprint a 51-step target with the new profile to confirm the linearization was succesful and to create the ICC profile for that paper and QTR profile so it makes corrections for what is printed and what is defined in the file. You don't actually need to run the linearized measurement data file through the linearize data script again. You just need to run the create icc, (which gives you the same graph as the linearize data script) and icc profile (as long as the lab values are constantly increasing).

If you print with the ICC profile you just created you still need to define the QTR Profile for that paper and printer, in addition to the ICC profile that you created for that paper and printer. It is like using the same media settings used to create an RGB ICC profile with a normal color managed workflow using the OEM driver or higher end RIP. If the printing parameters are different than what was used to create the profile then the correction will be off.

If you print through photoshop with "photoshop defines colors" using the correct ICC Profile you still need to set the associated QTR profile in the "print settings" window.

I have never worked that way. For the majority of my work, I always preferred the linear "curve" and more open shadows that the no color management settings give and never bothered to use the QTR icc profiles, except to occasionally soft proof. That being said, my own workflow is based on years of doing it the same way and being able to predict the results of the prints based on the profiles I make, and not using an ICC profile or other default correction curves/transfer functions for different papers.

Hope this clears some of this up and doesn't stir up the much too much.

Richard Boutwell


Re: [Digital BW] Re: STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-28 by kellyhealy@...

I think somewhere in the beginning i said I had not made a QTR profile yet. I think my point of all this the dmax of the ink and that it made good not perfect smooth print using the icc rgb profile. I do make QTR profiles.. My point was I bought a matt black 220 ml cartridge from STS to fiddle with. Period. I thought some of the results were interesting that's all.
This has thread has progressed beyond fiddling with a different ink in a very preliminary way
Paul I will send you the spider readings to do with as you may on Tuesday or Wednesday I"m going sailing on the Salish Sea for a few days. (Last trip of the season)
Kelly
























Re: STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-29 by richard@...

I'm sorry if I inadvertently ruffled some feathers. I was just trying to be clear about what you were doing and how you were getting there, and responding to your question about the profile creation process. The confusion was probably due to the different meanings of "profiles" and how it is used in describing different parts of the process. As you said, the only point you were demonstrating is that the STS matte black inks look to be a great replacement fir the MIS matte black.

Controlling a six dilution gray inkset with a color driver still blows my mind. I haven't had a chance to try it but when I get back from the holiday it is first on my list.

Richard Boutwell

RE: [Digital BW] Re: STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-29 by Elliot Puritz

Great news….so, regardless of any possible issues with the profile, the print as the final arbiter looks as you desire.  Well done.

 

Elliot
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From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2014 9:07 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: STS- C6 ink set

 

  

 

to answer your question.  My prints look just fine

Kelly

Re: STS- C6 ink set

2014-11-29 by kellyhealy@...

One last thing before i leave. All of the images I printed from the various ink sets I used to start this were done on Keith Cooper of North Light Images B/W test print. This is something I feel should be in the tool kit of anybody who wants to learn B/W printing. I include a Link.
I'm off !!! 32 degrees light wind, and finally my first chance this year to single hand sail for a few days. Solitude !!!!
Kelly

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