Digital BW, The Print

> On Jul 8, 2015, at 9:16 AM, arlenelove3@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> The reason I am abandoning my 7800 is because Epson makes it impossible to repair old printers.  Parts are not available. The certified  person who used to come to my studio no longer makes "house calls" because he can't get parts. Epson will send a person for a charge of $100 transportation plus  $175 an hour, and a possible cost of $400 for a part. - if it's available.
>  
> The nearest certified repair place ( 60 miles away) is not eager for me to shlep the printer to them.
>  
>  If Paul Roark OK's the 3880 as good for B&W matte prints., I believe it!  However, it seems that 3880 has been discontinued for the new P800, and I wonder if I will have the same problem getting parts that I have with the 7800.
>  
> If anyone can use my 7800  for parts, come and get it. I also have some K3 220 ml carts and HPR and EEM roll paper.
>  
>                                          Arlene
> ARLENE LOVE
> arlenelove3@...
> Philadelphia, PA 19130
> 215 923 2363
>

> On Jul 8, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Paul Roark roark.paul@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Where you live and whether you can transport your printer to a good repair shop are obviously important variables when it comes to large printer repairs.  I have a van and easily transported my 7800 to the Los Angeles area for repair.  It worked out very well.  I highly recommend "Printer Repair Pros" in Chatsworth, CA -- http://printerrepairchatsworthca.com/ .
> 
> I just talked to the proprietor and asked how long the 7800 and 3880 printers will likely be supported by Epson.  His response was that for the pro line (which these printers are a part of), Epson usually has parts available for 10 years.  The 7800 parts are still "pretty much" available, and the 3880 is in very good shape.
> 
> As to the 3880, the only weak point from a repair person's perspective appears to be the mechanism that switches between matte and photo black inks.  I might add that on the 3880 I'm using the PK is non-functional.  I don't know if it's that valve or other cause, but since I just leave it on MK with the Eboni-6 inks, I have not found any problem with the situation.  (I have the generic clear base in the PK cart, and if it is the valve, it worked fine in the power cleanings used to clear the old color inks out of the lines.)  
> 
> Bottom line, I continue to believe that the 3880 is going to be an excellent platform for a large segment of avid B&W photographers, including those who like the quality and cost savings of dedicated B&W inksets.  Most people will be able to transport the 3880 about as easily as a 13" paper printer, and it is likely to have parts available for a long time.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 9:16 AM, arlenelove3@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> Â 
>> 
>> The reason I am abandoning my 7800 is because Epson makes it impossible to repair old printers.  Parts are not available. The certified  person who used to come to my studio no longer makes "house calls" because he can't get parts. Epson will send a person for a charge of $100 transportation plus  $175 an hour, and a possible cost of $400 for a part. - if it's available.
>> Â 
>> The nearest certified repair place ( 60 miles away)Â is not eager for me to shlep the printer to them.
>> Â 
>>  If Paul Roark OK's the 3880 as good for B&W matte prints., I believe it!  However, it seems that 3880 has been discontinued for the new P800, and I wonder if I will have the same problem getting parts that I have with the 7800.
>> Â 
>> If anyone can use my 7800Â  for parts, come and get it. I also have some K3 220 ml carts and HPR and EEMÂ roll paper.
>> Â 
>> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  Arlene
>> ARLENE LOVE
>> arlenelove3@...
>> Philadelphia, PA 19130
>> 215 923 2363
> 
>

> On Jul 8, 2015, at 10:29 AM, hrblaine@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Didn't I read that the 800 has a very high D Max?
>  
> In a message dated 7/8/2015 12:16:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com writes:
> However, it seems that 3880 has been discontinued for the new P800
>

On 8 Jul 2015, at 23:47, Matt Haber matt@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> 
> Does the 3880 have a vacuum feed?
> 
> 
>  The paper feed on the 3880 is certainly better than the 1430.However many here will likely have little reason to print supersize-even if our digital files supported such printing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

> On Jul 8, 2015, at 6:37 PM, 'Dr. Elliot Puritz' drpuritz@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Enough to really matter?  I wonder. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 8, 2015, at 10:29 AM, hrblaine@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Didn't I read that the 800 has a very high D Max?
>>  
>> In a message dated 7/8/2015 12:16:59 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com writes:
>> However, it seems that 3880 has been discontinued for the new P800
> 
>

> On Jul 8, 2015, at 6:56 PM, David Whistance david.whistance@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> No it doesn’t have vacuum feed. I’ve always thought of the 3800/3880 as essentially a larger desktop printer as opposed to the professional models which start properly with the 4xxx series. As a result I’ve always found the paper feed on my two 3800’s very fussy compared with the 9800’s, 7880’s or 4800’s I also have. Still produces nice prints though, just very frustrating at times when the larger models aren’t.
> 
> 
> I see the benefit of the 38xx series as being the bigger cartridges compared with the other desktop machines although if you are refilling with B&W inks that isn’t really worthwhile. They also give you a larger print size in a smaller unit - the 4xxx series are really much bigger.
> 
> David Whistance 
>> On 8 Jul 2015, at 23:47, Matt Haber matt@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Does the 3880 have a vacuum feed?
>> 
>> 
>>  The paper feed on the 3880 is certainly better than the 1430.However many here will likely have little reason to print supersize-even if our digital files supported such printing.
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
>

> On Jul 8, 2015, at 3:56 PM, David Whistance david.whistance@btopenworld.com [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> No it doesn’t have vacuum feed. I’ve always thought of the 3800/3880 as essentially a larger desktop printer as opposed to the professional models which start properly with the 4xxx series. As a result I’ve always found the paper feed on my two 3800’s very fussy compared with the 9800’s, 7880’s or 4800’s I also have. Still produces nice prints though, just very frustrating at times when the larger models aren’t.
> 
> 
> I see the benefit of the 38xx series as being the bigger cartridges compared with the other desktop machines although if you are refilling with B&W inks that isn’t really worthwhile. They also give you a larger print size in a smaller unit - the 4xxx series are really much bigger.
> 
> David Whistance 
>> On 8 Jul 2015, at 23:47, Matt Haber matt@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Does the 3880 have a vacuum feed?
>> 
>> 
>>  The paper feed on the 3880 is certainly better than the 1430.However many here will likely have little reason to print supersize-even if our digital files supported such printing.
> 
>

> On Jul 8, 2015, at 5:02 PM, Paul Roark roark.paul@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> The reason to get a 3880 is to be able to print on 17" wide paper as opposed to 13" paper.  In my view the 16x20 inch print was the standard for wall display for B&W for years.  A 3880 can do that, the 13" models look a bit small on the wall.
> 
> So, if you meant by "small volume" small size, then there is no advantage to the 3880.  If 13" paper is enough, I'd go for the 1430.  Having small carts on the moving carriage agitates the inks automatically.  With the 3880, you'll have to agitate the carts every couple of weeks for good consistency.
> 
> I do "trust" Epson to have parts available for a reasonable time.  It's not an egalitarian move by them.  People would be reluctant to buy their products if Epson got a reputation for cutting off parts supplies too soon.  This particularly applies to expensive pro models. 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 3:36 PM, 'Dr. Elliot Puritz' drpuritz@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> Â 
>> Thanks Paul.
>> 
>> From a practical viewpoint for small volume printing what are the advantages of the 3880 vs. the 2880 and the current 1430? Certainly not the ease of switching carts.  I know that there is the perceived advantage of using rolls and therefore printing to a larger size.  The paper feed on the 3880 is certainly better than the 1430.However many here will likely have little reason to print supersize-even if our digital files supported such printing.
>> 
>> I simply wonder what one gets for the additional money.  I assume of course that one can buy either a new or refurbished 3880 guaranteed from Epson.  
>> 
>> Note again "small volume printing"
>> 
>> Do you really trust Epson to maintain TEN YEARS of parts?? Â 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 8, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Paul Roark roark.paul@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Â 
>>> Where you live and whether you can transport your printer to a good repair shop are obviously important variables when it comes to large printer repairs.  I have a van and easily transported my 7800 to the Los Angeles area for repair.  It worked out very well.  I highly recommend "Printer Repair Pros" in Chatsworth, CA -- http://printerrepairchatsworthca.com/ .
>>> 
>>> I just talked to the proprietor and asked how long the 7800 and 3880 printers will likely be supported by Epson.  His response was that for the pro line (which these printers are a part of), Epson usually has parts available for 10 years.  The 7800 parts are still "pretty much" available, and the 3880 is in very good shape.
>>> 
>>> As to the 3880, the only weak point from a repair person's perspective appears to be the mechanism that switches between matte and photo black inks.  I might add that on the 3880 I'm using the PK is non-functional.  I don't know if it's that valve or other cause, but since I just leave it on MK with the Eboni-6 inks, I have not found any problem with the situation.  (I have the generic clear base in the PK cart, and if it is the valve, it worked fine in the power cleanings used to clear the old color inks out of the lines.)  
>>> 
>>> Bottom line, I continue to believe that the 3880 is going to be an excellent platform for a large segment of avid B&W photographers, including those who like the quality and cost savings of dedicated B&W inksets.  Most people will be able to transport the 3880 about as easily as a 13" paper printer, and it is likely to have parts available for a long time.
>>> 
>>> Paul
>>> www.PaulRoark.com 
>>> 
>>> ...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 9:16 AM, arlenelove3@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> The reason I am abandoning my 7800 is because Epson makes it impossible to repair old printers.  Parts are not available. The certified  person who used to come to my studio no longer makes "house calls" because he can't get parts. Epson will send a person for a charge of $100 transportation plus  $175 an hour, and a possible cost of $400 for a part. - if it's available.
>>>>  
>>>> The nearest certified repair place ( 60 miles away) is not eager for me to shlep the printer to them.
>>>>  
>>>>  If Paul Roark OK's the 3880 as good for B&W matte prints., I believe it!  However, it seems that 3880 has been discontinued for the new P800, and I wonder if I will have the same problem getting parts that I have with the 7800.
>>>>  
>>>> If anyone can use my 7800  for parts, come and get it. I also have some K3 220 ml carts and HPR and EEM roll paper.
>>>>  
>>>>                                          Arlene
>>>> ARLENE LOVE
>>>> arlenelove3@...
>>>> Philadelphia, PA 19130
>>>> 215 923 2363
> 
>

> On Jul 8, 2015, at 5:02 PM, Paul Roark roark.paul@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> The reason to get a 3880 is to be able to print on 17" wide paper as opposed to 13" paper.  In my view the 16x20 inch print was the standard for wall display for B&W for years.  A 3880 can do that, the 13" models look a bit small on the wall.
> 
> So, if you meant by "small volume" small size, then there is no advantage to the 3880.  If 13" paper is enough, I'd go for the 1430.  Having small carts on the moving carriage agitates the inks automatically.  With the 3880, you'll have to agitate the carts every couple of weeks for good consistency.
> 
> I do "trust" Epson to have parts available for a reasonable time.  It's not an egalitarian move by them.  People would be reluctant to buy their products if Epson got a reputation for cutting off parts supplies too soon.  This particularly applies to expensive pro models. 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 3:36 PM, 'Dr. Elliot Puritz' drpuritz@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> Â 
>> Thanks Paul.
>> 
>> From a practical viewpoint for small volume printing what are the advantages of the 3880 vs. the 2880 and the current 1430? Certainly not the ease of switching carts.  I know that there is the perceived advantage of using rolls and therefore printing to a larger size.  The paper feed on the 3880 is certainly better than the 1430.However many here will likely have little reason to print supersize-even if our digital files supported such printing.
>> 
>> I simply wonder what one gets for the additional money.  I assume of course that one can buy either a new or refurbished 3880 guaranteed from Epson.  
>> 
>> Note again "small volume printing"
>> 
>> Do you really trust Epson to maintain TEN YEARS of parts?? Â 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jul 8, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Paul Roark roark.paul@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Â 
>>> Where you live and whether you can transport your printer to a good repair shop are obviously important variables when it comes to large printer repairs.  I have a van and easily transported my 7800 to the Los Angeles area for repair.  It worked out very well.  I highly recommend "Printer Repair Pros" in Chatsworth, CA -- http://printerrepairchatsworthca.com/ .
>>> 
>>> I just talked to the proprietor and asked how long the 7800 and 3880 printers will likely be supported by Epson.  His response was that for the pro line (which these printers are a part of), Epson usually has parts available for 10 years.  The 7800 parts are still "pretty much" available, and the 3880 is in very good shape.
>>> 
>>> As to the 3880, the only weak point from a repair person's perspective appears to be the mechanism that switches between matte and photo black inks.  I might add that on the 3880 I'm using the PK is non-functional.  I don't know if it's that valve or other cause, but since I just leave it on MK with the Eboni-6 inks, I have not found any problem with the situation.  (I have the generic clear base in the PK cart, and if it is the valve, it worked fine in the power cleanings used to clear the old color inks out of the lines.)  
>>> 
>>> Bottom line, I continue to believe that the 3880 is going to be an excellent platform for a large segment of avid B&W photographers, including those who like the quality and cost savings of dedicated B&W inksets.  Most people will be able to transport the 3880 about as easily as a 13" paper printer, and it is likely to have parts available for a long time.
>>> 
>>> Paul
>>> www.PaulRoark.com 
>>> 
>>> ...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 9:16 AM, arlenelove3@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> The reason I am abandoning my 7800 is because Epson makes it impossible to repair old printers.  Parts are not available. The certified  person who used to come to my studio no longer makes "house calls" because he can't get parts. Epson will send a person for a charge of $100 transportation plus  $175 an hour, and a possible cost of $400 for a part. - if it's available.
>>>>  
>>>> The nearest certified repair place ( 60 miles away) is not eager for me to shlep the printer to them.
>>>>  
>>>>  If Paul Roark OK's the 3880 as good for B&W matte prints., I believe it!  However, it seems that 3880 has been discontinued for the new P800, and I wonder if I will have the same problem getting parts that I have with the 7800.
>>>>  
>>>> If anyone can use my 7800  for parts, come and get it. I also have some K3 220 ml carts and HPR and EEM roll paper.
>>>>  
>>>>                                          Arlene
>>>> ARLENE LOVE
>>>> arlenelove3@...
>>>> Philadelphia, PA 19130
>>>> 215 923 2363
> 
>

> On 9 Jul 2015, at 12:29, hrblaine@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Not speaking for Paul but as an interested 3rd party who owned both a 1400 and a 3800, I will say that you are talking about two different things.  And yes, back in the day when I was shooting a 35mm Nikon, my developer always gave me an 8 x 10 contact print of all the negatives.  But I never displayed them on a wall, did you?  Harry
>  
> In a message dated 7/9/2015 12:42:49 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, AL writes:
> Although it's not terribly important I suggest we might have a small disagreement about normal print sizes. For a considerable period of time contact prints from 8 x 10 negatives were standard.
> 
>

> On Jul 9, 2015, at 04:29, hrblaine@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Not speaking for Paul but as an interested 3rd party who owned both a 1400 and a 3800, I will say that you are talking about two different things.  And yes, back in the day when I was shooting a 35mm Nikon, my developer always gave me an 8 x 10 contact print of all the negatives.  But I never displayed them on a wall, did you?  Harry
>  
> In a message dated 7/9/2015 12:42:49 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, AL writes:
> Although it's not terribly important I suggest we might have a small disagreement about normal print sizes. For a considerable period of time contact prints from 8 x 10 negatives were standard.
> 
>

> On Jul 9, 2015, at 05:07, David Whistance david.whistance@btopenworld.com [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> I suspect Dr Purlitz was actually referring to the days of Steiglitz, Weston, etc when larger size film was the norm and the only prints were contact prints, ie the same size as the film and made by putting the film and paper in contact together under a light source. At that time 10"x8" prints were regularly displayed on the wall as indeed they still are. The contact prints you are talking about are a rather different animal, albeit made in the same way. For my own work I really like 10"x12" prints even though I can print much larger.
> 
> David Whistance
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On 9 Jul 2015, at 12:29, hrblaine@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Not speaking for Paul but as an interested 3rd party who owned both a 1400 and a 3800, I will say that you are talking about two different things.  And yes, back in the day when I was shooting a 35mm Nikon, my developer always gave me an 8 x 10 contact print of all the negatives.  But I never displayed them on a wall, did you?  Harry
>>  
>> In a message dated 7/9/2015 12:42:49 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, AL writes:
>> Although it's not terribly important I suggest we might have a small disagreement about normal print sizes. For a considerable period of time contact prints from 8 x 10 negatives were standard.
> 
>

> On Jul 9, 2015, at 10:57, hrblaine@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> Well good for you but I was talking about proof sheets. 
>  
> In a message dated 7/9/2015 10:49:12 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com writes:
> I regularly matted and framed my contact prints on Azo.  Many still hang on my walls
>