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nozzle check

nozzle check

2015-08-14 by jacques.caron@...

Hi


Each time I refill my 1430 (Eb6 config) I usually wait 12 hours before using it; from time to time I learned that doing a nozzle check immediately after refilling, the results weren't so good. This was more air in the "pipes" than a blocked or dirty nozzle. On my last refilling, I had the same missing parts (cleared after 12 hours) but this time I saw a dark line in the "yellow" channel. It's now gone but can cause that?


You can see the scan here :

nozzle_check.jpg

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Re: [Digital BW] nozzle check

2015-08-14 by Ernst Dinkla

Ink overflow from another ink channel. Happens in the capping station. Sometimes the waste ink pump does not cope with the ink flow or the capping station seals are dirty and reduce the pump's sucking power. When cleaning ink from one channel flows into another channel if there is a difference in ink flow. Another less ideal concept is one wiper for the total of all channel nozzles, wiping debris and excessive ink from one side to the other.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

Dinkla Grafische Techniek
Quad, piëzografie, giclée
www.pigment-print.com
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On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 3:42 PM, jacques.caron@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi


Each time I refill my 1430 (Eb6 config) I usually wait 12 hours before using it; from time to time I learned that doing a nozzle check immediately after refilling, the results weren't so good. This was more air in the "pipes" than a blocked or dirty nozzle. On my last refilling, I had the same missing parts (cleared after 12 hours) but this time I saw a dark line in the "yellow" channel. It's now gone but can cause that?


You can see the scan here :

nozzle_check.jpg

nozzle_check.jpg
Shared with Dropbox
Preview by Yahoo



Re: [Digital BW] nozzle check

2015-08-14 by Jacques Caron

Thanks

Since my capping station seems "relatively" clean I'll look closely at the wiper blade (there is only one for all six channels on the 1430 - I don't know the model number in Europe).

Without using a cleaning cycle, the second nozzle check test shows no "dark" line; I figure that this is a bit of an overflow when retorting the printer.

Jacques

Jacques Caron
Photographe
jacques.caron@...



Le 2015-08-14 à 10:26, "Ernst Dinkla ernst.dinkla@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint]" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> a écrit :
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> 
> Ink overflow from another ink channel. Happens in the capping station. Sometimes the waste ink pump does not cope with the ink flow or the capping station seals are dirty and reduce the pump's sucking power. When cleaning ink from one channel flows into another channel if there is a difference in ink flow.  Another less ideal concept is one wiper for the total of all channel nozzles, wiping debris and excessive ink from one side to the other.
> 
> 
> Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst 
>  
> Dinkla Grafische Techniek 
> Quad, piëzografie, giclée 
> www.pigment-print.com
> 
> On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 3:42 PM, jacques.caron@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>  
> 
> Hi
> 
> 
> 
> Each time I refill my 1430 (Eb6 config) I usually wait 12 hours before using it; from time to time I learned that doing a nozzle check immediately after refilling, the results weren't so good. This was more air in the "pipes" than a blocked or dirty nozzle. On my last refilling, I had the same missing parts (cleared after 12 hours) but this time I saw a dark line in the "yellow" channel. It's now gone but can cause that?
> 
> 
> 
> You can see the scan here :
> 
> nozzle_check.jpg
> 
>    
> nozzle_check.jpg
> Shared with Dropbox
> View on www.dropbox.com
> Preview by Yahoo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: nozzle check

2015-08-15 by ascherjim@...

I've reported earlier that usually after my 1400 printer goes into an automatic nozzle cleaning (or after I've replenished ink), the test shows ink gaps.  Rather than proceed manually with further head cleanings, I've now learned to wait a number of hours for apparently the air pockets in the lines to clear.  This practice (patience) I've now observed works every time.  Frustrating.

Re: [Digital BW] Re: nozzle check

2015-08-15 by Paul Roark

Usually refilling a cartridge does not and should not involve air getting into the ink path. I'm wondering if ink is leaking out the outlet when the carts are removed. I've had leaky carts where I have to insert a plug in the outlet to avoid the problem. See https://www.inksupply.com/product-details/pn/MIS-RIVET-50.html?printerID=0

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
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On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 5:52 AM, ascherjim@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I've reported earlier that usually after my 1400 printer goes into an automatic nozzle cleaning (or after I've replenished ink), the test shows ink gaps. Rather than proceed manually with further head cleanings, I've now learned to wait a number of hours for apparently the air pockets in the lines to clear. This practice (patience) I've now observed works every time. Frustrating.


Re: [Digital BW] Re: nozzle check

2015-08-15 by Jacques Caron

Hi

Maybe the process of refilling should not involve air but… it's something that happens even if I'm very careful at removing one cartridge and refill at a time; I'm very cautious not getting air in the syringe and in the cartridge. Nonetheless, each time I refill, I get the same behaviour as noted by Jim Ascher and now, I refill and wait the next day. Print a nozzle check twice an I'm in business. I never had a good nozzle check just after refilling. BTW I bought a new set of cartridges (just in case) and the new ones are showing the same behaviour.

Surely I do something not "by the book" but, the waiting time is not so bad when you know it. Since I'm never in a rush to print, it's manageable.


Jacques Caron
Photographe
jacques.caron@...



Le 2015-08-15 à 10:34, "Paul Roark roark.paul@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint]" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> a écrit :
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> 
> Usually refilling a cartridge does not and should not involve air getting into the ink path.  I'm wondering if ink is leaking out the outlet when the carts are removed.  I've had leaky carts where I have to insert a plug in the outlet to avoid the problem.  See https://www.inksupply.com/product-details/pn/MIS-RIVET-50.html?printerID=0 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> On Sat, Aug 15, 2015 at 5:52 AM, ascherjim@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>  
> I've reported earlier that usually after my 1400 printer goes into an automatic nozzle cleaning (or after I've replenished ink), the test shows ink gaps. Rather than proceed manually with further head cleanings, I've now learned to wait a number of hours for apparently the air pockets in the lines to clear. This practice (patience) I've now observed works every time. Frustrating. 
> 
> 
>

Re: nozzle check

2015-08-15 by brian_downunda@...

The standard IJM instructions for refilling carts are after filling to gently tap the exit port of each cart on the desk / bench to dislodge any air, then let them sit for 15-30 minutes to allow any air to rise, then when you insert them in the printer to let them sit there in the ink exchange position for 15-30 minutes, again for any air that may have crept in via the ink nozzle to dislodge, and only them press the button to have the head move away from the ink exchange position and for the printer to start a mandatory head clean. In my experience, some printers need this full ritual more than others.

Also, some cart designs have different instructions about refilling to avoid getting any ink in the vent path, as this can affect the internal vacuum of the carts. You need to follow the instructions for your carts. I have found the IJM ones (other than the 1800/2400 model) pretty easy and simple to refill.

If you still get cross-channel bleeding after doing all this, then it could be caused by a dirty or aged capping station, or leaky carts as Paul suggested. You can try the usual printer cleaning routine, but if the problem persists, then you have to decide whether the capping station is beyond hope, or the carts are leaking.

In my experience carts can leak slowly or quickly. If a cart is leaking slowly then you'll only see a small amount of cross-channel bleeding, whereas if the cart is leaking more quickly then you'll see more and it will be faster to emerge. If you're really unlucky a cart will drain. Of course this could also be the capping station. If it is the cart, then the nozzle check will give some indication of which cart is leaking - it's the shade of the ink which is appearing in the wrong place, and will generally be from a neighbouring cart. On the 1400, you can use any cart in any position, once you've put the correct chip on it, so it's not hard to put a spare cart in the suspect slot.

So the steps in dealing with cross-channel bleeding are (i) follow the filling instructions; (ii) clean the printer (capping station, wiper, under the head, ink nozzles); and (iii) replace any suspect carts.

Re: nozzle check

2015-08-16 by ascherjim@...

When I "refill" my carts, I actually leave them in place in the printer.  I do not remove them.  I just "top them off" using a syringe (after removing the top plug, and replacing it after my insertion of additional ink).  But, as I also reported, the bad test patterns also occur after the printer has gone into its automatic cleaning cycle.

RE: [Digital BW] Re: nozzle check

2015-08-16 by Jim Bechtel

This is more of a question.. By not removing the carts periodically would not one worry about pigment settling? I find that if I don’t periodically agitate the carts that other issues start showing up.

 

jimbo
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From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2015 7:58 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: nozzle check

 

  

When I "refill" my carts, I actually leave them in place in the printer. I do not remove them. I just "top them off" using a syringe (after removing the top plug, and replacing it after my insertion of additional ink). But, as I also reported, the bad test patterns also occur after the printer has gone into its automatic cleaning cycle. 



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Re: [Digital BW] Re: nozzle check

2015-08-16 by Jacques Caron

Hi

When you write "automatic cleaning cycle" do you mean the cycle done after refilling and repositioning the carrier?

My printer is always "On"; sometimes, after  a print session, the printer makes what I think a "cleaning cycle" even if the cartridges were not refilled. Must be something embedded in Epson pincers.


Jacques Caron
Photographe
jacques.caron@....ca



Le 2015-08-16 à 09:57, "ascherjim@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint]" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> a écrit :

> When I "refill" my carts, I actually leave them in place in the printer. I do not remove them. I just "top them off" using a syringe (after removing the top plug, and replacing it after my insertion of additional ink). But, as I also reported, the bad test patterns also occur after the printer has gone into its automatic cleaning cycle. 
>

Re: nozzle check

2015-08-16 by brian_downunda@...

The general view is that with these carts-on-head printers, the action of the head moving back and forth is enough to keep the ink agitated and the pigment in suspension. This is one of the big advantages of the carts-on-head printers compared to the printers with ink lines and dampers (R3000 and the Pro printers, i.e. 3800/3880 and larger), where the carts don't get agitated when printing and so the carts need to be manually agitated.

These carts-on-head printers will do a head cleaning cycle at various times - when a cart is removed and reinserted, when an ARC chip resets (which is why removing them all refilling and resetting them all at the same time, if you have a resetter, is a less wasteful approach), and when the printer determines through some algorithm that it's time and the printer needs a head clean.

If the gaps in the nozzle check occur after one of these printer-scheduled cleans, then .... I've had a printer like this (R2400) and never solved the problem. I came to the view that there was an incompatibility between that printer and refillables. I think that air was getting in during a head clean, as not every gap in a nozzle is a clog, especially if the position of the gap moves after each head clean. I tried a range of solutions and refillables with this printer, but nothing worked.

It's not a common experience from what I can tell, but around that time I did see one other similar report from someone else, using a different printer and as far as I can tell (since they all come from China) another brand of refillables. I am also aware of another 1430 user who quite recently has struggled to get refillables to work with an R1430. He finally seems to have had success with "capsules" from IJM after trying two printers and quite a few brands of refillables.

I had to sound negative and defeatist, but that was my experience.

Re: nozzle check

2015-08-17 by ascherjim@...

As I reported earlier, the solution I've worked out (over time, finally) is "patience."  I wait a number of hours and the problem seems to solve itself.  Also, the movement of the cartridges on the head provides I believe sufficient agitation of the inks.

Re: nozzle check

2015-08-17 by brian_downunda@...

In my experience, patience and purge patterns are far more effective and less wasteful than head cleans in these situations. Head cleans are usually only useful when you have a genuine clog, and if you have air in the ink lines then a head clean will often only make matters worse.

But if you need to exercise patience after each and every head clean, then that's a real pain. That was what happened to me

[In the last line of my previous post, I meant to say "I hate to sound negative and defeatist ..." not "had".]

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