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Glossy VT on 7600

Glossy VT on 7600

2017-03-28 by fneil.simms@...

Hi all,


I've been enjoying printing with the Ebvt inkset on my 1400. Thanks Paul R. for all your wonderful work with these inks over the years - you allowed me to retire my wet darkroom rig!


I've been inspired to revive my old 7600 to try with carbon inks, and now that I've got all but one nozzle clear (I'll get there!), I'm considering what inkset to try in it. I'm leaning toward trying the new Glossy variable tone setup.


Would this be the way to lay out the inks?


Y - Canon based blue toner

K - MK (Ebony 1.1)

LK - PK (MIS PK)

LM - 9% PK

LC - 15% PK

M - 30% PK

C - 50% PK


I need to take a look at Paul R's Glossy profiles to use at a starting point for doing my own characterizations and profiling.


I intend to use QTR for my printing, but it would be nice if the Epson driver would also print something reasonable.


Any gotchas with this setup, that will potentially trip me up? One concern I have is whether having both MK and PK carts will be an issue. If I do a lot of matte printing and the PK sits idle, for example, will I set myself up for clogging problems?


Also, is the quality of a matte print with this inkset (using the MK as K) as good as the pure matte setup of Ebvt, considering we are using PK for the dilute inks? I will probably be doing mostly matte printing, but would like the ability to produce the occasional glossy print for unglazed display.


Thanks in advance,


Neil



Re: [Digital BW] Glossy VT on 7600

2017-03-28 by Paul Roark

That should work fine. See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/7800-Glossy-Carbon-Variable-Tone-2016.pdf . You have one less spot, so you're -- very logically -- omitting the second MK I have in my setup only for printing on Arches watercolor paper (uncoated).

The quality of the prints will be fine.

I must say, however, that while I put this setup in my 9800 because I am going to have a show at Gallery Los Olivos in September 2017 that will feature large canvases, I pulled the glossy inkset from my 7800. Keeping two wide format printers from clogging with the glossy inks is more than I want to bother with. So, the 7800 is back to the much more reliable Eboni VT -- no glossy inks with binders (glue) in them to clog the machine. With these glossy inks, you really want to run the printer regularly. A friend with OEM Epson inks in his wide format printer runs his twice a week. I generally get away with once a week, but it's not good old Eb6 in there, and there is a big difference in the hassle factor. After the Sept. show and the followup sales (if any), I suspect I'll pull the glossy inks from the 9800 also.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 6:26 AM, fneil.simms@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi all,


I've been enjoying printing with the Ebvt inkset on my 1400. Thanks Paul R. for all your wonderful work with these inks over the years - you allowed me to retire my wet darkroom rig!


I9;ve been inspired to revive my old 7600 to try with carbon inks, and now that I've got all but one nozzle clear (I'll get there!), I'm considering what inkset to try in it. I'm leaning toward trying the new Glossy variable tone setup.


Would this be the way to lay out the inks?


Y - Canon based blue toner

K - MK (Ebony 1.1)

LK - PK (MIS PK)

LM - 9% PK

LC - 15% PK

M - 30% PK

C - 50% PK


I need to take a look at Paul R's Glossy profiles to use at a starting point for doing my own characterizations and profiling.


I intend to use QTR for my printing, but it would be nice if the Epson driver would also print something reasonable.


Any gotchas with this setup, that will potentially trip me up? One concern I have is whether having both MK and PK carts will be an issue. If I do a lot of matte printing and the PK sits idle, for example, will I set myself up for clogging problems?


Also, is the quality of a matte print with this inkset (using the MK as K) as good as the pure matte setup of Ebvt, considering we are using PK for the dilute inks? I will probably be doing mostly matte printing, but would like the ability to produce the occasional glossy print for unglazed display.


Thanks in advance,


Neil




Re: Glossy VT on 7600

2017-05-01 by fneil.simms@...

Thanks, Paul. I ended up going Eboni VT in the 7600, and the big prints are coming out beautifully. I decided I wouldn't be printing that many glossy prints, so the clogging potential with a not-heavily-used 7600 using the glossy config wouldn't be worth the ongoing hassles. And I can print a pretty decent B&W glossy on my new p600 if I really need one.

A general comment on repurposing old 24" or larger Epson printers to use B&W inksets -

By replacing dampers and running Eb base through the head of my badly clogged 7600 (hadn't been used in many years), plus some gentle Windex syringe flushing, I was able to get it back up and running beautifully. If folks see old long-out-of-use printers cheap or free on local classifieds, give it a shot - you could get a top notch archival large format printer running for little $$$'s...

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Glossy VT on 7600

2017-05-01 by Paul Roark

As to the old printers, I had a 7500 for years. The problem with that model is that the carts have an old-style connection to the printer that puts a syringe needle type printer male end through a rubber cart female valve. They are not meant to be reused; they'll leak.

So, unless someone is using a CIS type system, I don't recommend going back as far as the 7500. The 7600 was the first modern coupling that allows reliable re-use.

That said, with the old 7500 and its large dots (not a problem with Eb6-Y 2%) was the only printer I had that could print (on slightly brightened papers and with Eb. v.1) a 100% carbon image where the Lab B never got above 0 -- very cool in at least two respects.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 8:10 AM, fneil.simms@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m> wrote:

Thanks, Paul. I ended up going Eboni VT in the 7600, and the big prints are coming out beautifully. I decided I wouldn't be printing that many glossy prints, so the clogging potential with a not-heavily-used 7600 using the glossy config wouldn't be worth the ongoing hassles. And I can print a pretty decent B&W glossy on my new p600 if I really need one.


A general comment on repurposing old 24" or larger Epson printers to use B&W inksets -

By replacing dampers and running Eb base through the head of my badly clogged 7600 (hadn't been used in many years), plus some gentle Windex syringe flushing, I was able to get it back up and running beautifully. If folks see old long-out-of-use printers cheap or free on local classifieds, give it a shot - you could get a top notch archival large format printer running for little $$$'s...


Re: [Digital BW] Re: Glossy VT on 7600

2017-05-01 by John Castronovo

I’ve got an Epson 10600 here that might be a candidate to convert for BW, but the carts are different from the others in that vintage. Can it be done and what’s involved? All the heads are working beautifully after years of sitting. 

p.s. I also have a 2200 and wondering what it might be best suited for if only for parts. I understand that the head is the same as the 9600.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2017 12:00 PM
To: DigitalB&WPrint 
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Glossy VT on 7600




As to the old printers, I had a 7500 for years.  The problem with that model is that the carts have an old-style connection to the printer that puts a syringe needle type printer male end through a rubber cart female valve.  They are not meant to be reused; they'll leak.

So, unless someone is using a CIS type system, I don't recommend going back as far as the 7500.  The 7600 was the first modern coupling that allows reliable re-use.

That said, with the old 7500 and its large dots (not a problem with Eb6-Y 2%) was the only printer I had that could print (on slightly brightened papers and with Eb. v.1) a 100% carbon image where the Lab B never got above 0 -- very cool in at least two respects.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 8:10 AM, fneil.simms@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

    
  Thanks, Paul. I ended up going Eboni VT in the 7600, and the big prints are coming out beautifully. I decided I wouldn't be printing that many glossy prints, so the clogging potential with a not-heavily-used 7600 using the glossy config wouldn't be worth the ongoing hassles. And I can print a pretty decent B&W glossy on my new p600 if I really need one.



  A general comment on repurposing old 24" or larger Epson printers to use B&W inksets -


  By replacing dampers and running Eb base through the head of my badly clogged 7600 (hadn't been used in many years), plus some gentle Windex syringe flushing, I was able to get it back up and running beautifully. If folks see old long-out-of-use printers cheap or free on local classifieds, give it a shot - you could get a top notch archival large format printer running for little $$$'s...

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Glossy VT on 7600

2017-05-02 by Paul Roark

If you can refill empty carts on an Epson, you can convert it to either the matte/"Eboni-6" or glossy carbon inksets.

I'm debating now whether to even bother with glossy for my Sept. show. It saves on the acrylic, but I prefer the non-clogging "Eb6" (generic base and volume purchase of STS WJ1082) (i.e., incredibly cheap) inkset, that I'm increasingly leaning to abandoning glossy altogether. I'll probably do a few glossy canvasses just to see if I like them, but what I'm finding annoying at the moment is the highlights glinting off the canvas. The s/n ration goes down the drain. The lighting has to be right for gloss canvas to work.

On the other hand a just shipped a big order that required glossy -- would hate to have had to turn that down. A conundrum.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 1:01 PM, 'John Castronovo' jc@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I’ve got an Epson 10600 here that might be a candidate to convert for BW, but the carts are different from the others in that vintage. Can it be done and what’s involved? All the heads are working beautifully after years of sitting.
p.s. I also have a 2200 and wondering what it might be best suited for if only for parts. I understand that the head is the same as the 9600.
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2017 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Glossy VT on 7600


As to the old printers, I had a 7500 for years. The problem with that model is that the carts have an old-style connection to the printer that puts a syringe needle type printer male end through a rubber cart female valve. They are not meant to be reused; they'll leak.
So, unless someone is using a CIS type system, I don't recommend going back as far as the 7500. The 7600 was the first modern coupling that allows reliable re-use.
That said, with the old 7500 and its large dots (not a problem with Eb6-Y 2%) was the only printer I had that could print (on slightly brightened papers and with Eb. v.1) a 100% carbon image where the Lab B never got above 0 -- very cool in at least two respects.
Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 8:10 AM, fneil.simms@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thanks, Paul. I ended up going Eboni VT in the 7600, and the big prints are coming out beautifully. I decided I wouldn't be printing that many glossy prints, so the clogging potential with a not-heavily-used 7600 using the glossy config wouldn't be worth the ongoing hassles. And I can print a pretty decent B&W glossy on my new p600 if I really need one.


A general comment on repurposing old 24" or larger Epson printers to use B&W inksets -

By replacing dampers and running Eb base through the head of my badly clogged 7600 (hadn't been used in many years), plus some gentle Windex syringe flushing, I was able to get it back up and running beautifully. If folks see old long-out-of-use printers cheap or free on local classifieds, give it a shot - you could get a top notch archival large format printer running for little $$$'s...


Re: [Digital BW] Re: Glossy VT on 7600

2017-05-02 by John Castronovo

Some glossy canvas is much worse than others I’ve found. I don’t really like any of them and much prefer to coat matte canvas the way I like it, but I’ve recently sampled a bunch of glossy canvases for a client who has asked for it, and I found some to be tolerable, while most are ridiculously bad with highlight reflections. I also discovered that glossy canvas isn’t very water resistant compared to matte canvas and again, some are much worse than others. All in all, it’s a cheap way to go and it looks it even at its best.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2017 10:34 PM
To: DigitalB&WPrint 
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Glossy VT on 7600




If you can refill empty carts on an Epson, you can convert it to either the matte/"Eboni-6" or glossy carbon inksets.

I'm debating now whether to even bother with glossy for my Sept. show.  It saves on the acrylic, but I prefer the non-clogging "Eb6" (generic base and volume purchase of STS WJ1082) (i.e., incredibly cheap) inkset, that I'm increasingly leaning to abandoning glossy altogether.  I'll probably do a few glossy canvasses just to see if I like them, but what I'm finding annoying at the moment is the highlights glinting off the canvas.  The s/n ration goes down the drain.  The lighting has to be right for gloss canvas to work.  

On the other hand a just shipped a big order that required glossy -- would hate to have had to turn that down.  A conundrum. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 1:01 PM, 'John Castronovo' jc@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

    
  I’ve got an Epson 10600 here that might be a candidate to convert for BW, but the carts are different from the others in that vintage. Can it be done and what’s involved? All the heads are working beautifully after years of sitting. 

  p.s. I also have a 2200 and wondering what it might be best suited for if only for parts. I understand that the head is the same as the 9600. 


  From: mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, May 01, 2017 12:00 PM
  To: DigitalB&WPrint 
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Glossy VT on 7600




  As to the old printers, I had a 7500 for years.  The problem with that model is that the carts have an old-style connection to the printer that puts a syringe needle type printer male end through a rubber cart female valve.  They are not meant to be reused; they'll leak.

  So, unless someone is using a CIS type system, I don't recommend going back as far as the 7500.  The 7600 was the first modern coupling that allows reliable re-use.

  That said, with the old 7500 and its large dots (not a problem with Eb6-Y 2%) was the only printer I had that could print (on slightly brightened papers and with Eb. v.1) a 100% carbon image where the Lab B never got above 0 -- very cool in at least two respects.

  Paul
  www.PaulRoark.com 

  On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 8:10 AM, fneil.simms@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m> wrote:

      
    Thanks, Paul. I ended up going Eboni VT in the 7600, and the big prints are coming out beautifully. I decided I wouldn't be printing that many glossy prints, so the clogging potential with a not-heavily-used 7600 using the glossy config wouldn't be worth the ongoing hassles. And I can print a pretty decent B&W glossy on my new p600 if I really need one.



    A general comment on repurposing old 24" or larger Epson printers to use B&W inksets -


    By replacing dampers and running Eb base through the head of my badly clogged 7600 (hadn't been used in many years), plus some gentle Windex syringe flushing, I was able to get it back up and running beautifully. If folks see old long-out-of-use printers cheap or free on local classifieds, give it a shot - you could get a top notch archival large format printer running for little $$$'s...

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Glossy VT on 7600

2017-05-02 by Paul Roark

I think the only canvas I like that I'm printing on is coming from a 36" roll of Epson Exhibition Canvas Natural Matte. I'm bonding it to acid free foam core with Scotch 77 and then putting it under acrylic (with spacers and simple black wood frame). My work table is only 36", so that puts a limit on the size at the large end. The extent to which canvas texture interferes with the image eliminates all the 24" canvas products for me. So, Epson Natural Matte in 36" rolls is what is going to be the the substrate for my "carbon on canvas" show in September.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 9:44 PM, 'John Castronovo' jc@technicalphoto.com [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Some glossy canvas is much worse than others I’ve found. I don’t really like any of them and much prefer to coat matte canvas the way I like it, but I’ve recently sampled a bunch of glossy canvases for a client who has asked for it, and I found some to be tolerable, while most are ridiculously bad with highlight reflections. I also discovered that glossy canvas isn’t very water resistant compared to matte canvas and again, some are much worse than others. All in all, it’s a cheap way to go and it looks it even at its best.
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2017 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Glossy VT on 7600


If you can refill empty carts on an Epson, you can convert it to either the matte/"Eboni-6" or glossy carbon inksets.
I'm debating now whether to even bother with glossy for my Sept. show. It saves on the acrylic, but I prefer the non-clogging "Eb6" (generic base and volume purchase of STS WJ1082) (i.e., incredibly cheap) inkset, that I'm increasingly leaning to abandoning glossy altogether. I'll probably do a few glossy canvasses just to see if I like them, but what I'm finding annoying at the moment is the highlights glinting off the canvas. The s/n ration goes down the drain. The lighting has to be right for gloss canvas to work.
On the other hand a just shipped a big order that required glossy -- would hate to have had to turn that down. A conundrum.
Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 1:01 PM, 9;John Castronovo' jc@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
I’ve got an Epson 10600 here that might be a candidate to convert for BW, but the carts are different from the others in that vintage. Can it be done and what’s involved? All the heads are working beautifully after years of sitting.
p.s. I also have a 2200 and wondering what it might be best suited for if only for parts. I understand that the head is the same as the 9600.
Sent: Monday, May 01, 2017 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Glossy VT on 7600


As to the old printers, I had a 7500 for years. The problem with that model is that the carts have an old-style connection to the printer that puts a syringe needle type printer male end through a rubber cart female valve. They are not meant to be reused; they'll leak.
So, unless someone is using a CIS type system, I don't recommend going back as far as the 7500. The 7600 was the first modern coupling that allows reliable re-use.
That said, with the old 7500 and its large dots (not a problem with Eb6-Y 2%) was the only printer I had that could print (on slightly brightened papers and with Eb. v.1) a 100% carbon image where the Lab B never got above 0 -- very cool in at least two respects.
Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
On Mon, May 1, 2017 at 8:10 AM, fneil.simms@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Thanks, Paul. I ended up going Eboni VT in the 7600, and the big prints are coming out beautifully. I decided I wouldn't be printing that many glossy prints, so the clogging potential with a not-heavily-used 7600 using the glossy config wouldn't be worth the ongoing hassles. And I can print a pretty decent B&W glossy on my new p600 if I really need one.


A general comment on repurposing old 24" or larger Epson printers to use B&W inksets -

By replacing dampers and running Eb base through the head of my badly clogged 7600 (hadn't been used in many years), plus some gentle Windex syringe flushing, I was able to get it back up and running beautifully. If folks see old long-out-of-use printers cheap or free on local classifieds, give it a shot - you could get a top notch archival large format printer running for little $$$'s...


Re: Glossy VT on 7600

2017-05-03 by paulmwhiting@...

What about a semi-gloss surface, like we used to get drying F (glossy) paper on a fibreglass screen, and flattening the dried and wavy result in a drymount press? I found that rather pleasing. These prints had the blacks we enjoyed in a glossy print but with fewer annoying highlights.

More and more I dislike displaying mat surface prints under glass.

Paul W.

(maybe this was discussed earlier in the thread and I missed it.)

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Glossy VT on 7600

2017-05-03 by Paul Roark

Paul W.,

I'm not really an expert on canvasses. I've used about a dozen and simply did not find one that had a semi-gloss surface and texture that appealed to me. Much of this is subjective, of course.

While this has drifted a bit OT, for the OP, let me just add that one must remember to set the platen gap to "wider" for canvas to avoid damaging the head. I really don't recommend canvas, however, to anyone who does not have the capability to print from large 36 or 44 inch rolls. For the most simple glossy printing on, for example, the 7600, try a 24" roll of something like one of the Red River Paper luster products, which the printer cutter can easily manage.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 5:51 AM, paulmwhiting@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

What about a semi-gloss surface, like we used to get drying F (glossy) paper on a fibreglass screen, and flattening the dried and wavy result in a drymount press? I found that rather pleasing. These prints had the blacks we enjoyed in a glossy print but with fewer annoying highlights.

More and more I dislike displaying mat surface prints under glass.

Paul W.

(maybe this was discussed earlier in the thread and I missed it.)


Re: [Digital BW] Re: Glossy VT on 7600

2017-05-03 by paulmwhiting@...

Paul R.,

Perhaps I wasn't clear... I was printing on paper (Ilford Multigrade or Agfa MCC), not a fabric ... the screen was just my way of drying the print. I placed the wet (but squeegeed) print upside down on the screen - somehow the texture of the screen left no marks on the print.

Yes, we are OT! and I'm not helping a bit to keep us on topic!

Regards,

Paul


---In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, <roark.paul@...> wrote :

Paul W.,

I'm not really an expert on canvasses. I've used about a dozen and simply did not find one that had a semi-gloss surface and texture that appealed to me. Much of this is subjective, of course.

While this has drifted a bit OT, for the OP, let me just add that one must remember to set the platen gap to "wider" for canvas to avoid damaging the head. I really don't recommend canvas, however, to anyone who does not have the capability to print from large 36 or 44 inch rolls. For the most simple glossy printing on, for example, the 7600, try a 24" roll of something like one of the Red River Paper luster products, which the printer cutter can easily manage.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 5:51 AM, paulmwhiting@... [DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint] <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

What about a semi-gloss surface, like we used to get drying F (glossy) paper on a fibreglass screen, and flattening the dried and wavy result in a drymount press? I found that rather pleasing. These prints had the blacks we enjoyed in a glossy print but with fewer annoying highlights.

More and more I dislike displaying mat surface prints under glass.

Paul W.

(maybe this was discussed earlier in the thread and I missed it.)


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