Digital BW, The Print

> Paul wrote
> The warming is the issue that I am concerned with the most, and that
> differential is significant.


I have just re-reviewed some natural light fade tests of piezo inks
on a variety of papers. The prints are not protected by glass
(except the window in the house) and are located on an east wall
in an alcove. The prints get much bright reflected light
from off white walls and ceiling but no direct sunlight. Tests started
August 2001.

The location represents a very foolish but possible
location for displaying prints.

Without a densitometer I can only report what I see.

Compared with all dark stored prints the warming has created
a significant RELATIVE change in density between the 100% patch
and the 95% patch on all papers.

(for Mike K - this helps greatly to separate out
those compressed dark tones)  ;-))

The only paper that fared well is Waterford DI CP 185
which warmed less than uncoated Somerset Velvet.
Somerset Velvet lost overall density but did somewhat better
on the RELATIVE loss between 100% and 95%.

All the other papers lost enough RELATIVE density
in the 95% - 85% range to affect the image including:
Photo Rag 188 gsm
Museo
Legion Photo Matt
BC Eclipse Satine (not toooo bad)
Somerset Enhanced
Somerset Enhanced Textured
Concord Rag
Somerset Enhanced Velvet

YMMV.

Thanks
Bob Obenland

on 3/25/02 12:38 PM, Bob Obenland wrote:

>> Paul wrote
>> The warming is the issue that I am concerned with the most, and that
>> differential is significant.
> 
> 
> I have just re-reviewed some natural light fade tests of piezo inks
> on a variety of papers. ...

Mostly we read reports of the fade/warming of the black inks. What I fear
most is the fading of delicate highlights. I would think the weaker tones
would be the most at risk when fading occurs. For instance, I fear that 5%
highlights will drift to 1%, and 3% will drift to 0%, and subtle details
will be gone, gone, gone. So my question to you fade testers is, do
highlights fade more or less relative to blacks?

Todd

Bob, 

Just to be fair...did you also have a silver gelatin and RC print up there too?

Steadman

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Obenland 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 11:38 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Indelible Black Fade Test > now PIEZO FADE TESTS


  > Paul wrote
  > The warming is the issue that I am concerned with the most, and that
  > differential is significant.


  I have just re-reviewed some natural light fade tests of piezo inks
  on a variety of papers. The prints are not protected by glass
  (except the window in the house) and are located on an east wall
  in an alcove. The prints get much bright reflected light
  from off white walls and ceiling but no direct sunlight. Tests started
  August 2001.

  The location represents a very foolish but possible
  location for displaying prints.

  Without a densitometer I can only report what I see.

  Compared with all dark stored prints the warming has created
  a significant RELATIVE change in density between the 100% patch
  and the 95% patch on all papers.

  (for Mike K - this helps greatly to separate out
  those compressed dark tones)  ;-))

  The only paper that fared well is Waterford DI CP 185
  which warmed less than uncoated Somerset Velvet.
  Somerset Velvet lost overall density but did somewhat better
  on the RELATIVE loss between 100% and 95%.

  All the other papers lost enough RELATIVE density
  in the 95% - 85% range to affect the image including:
  Photo Rag 188 gsm
  Museo
  Legion Photo Matt
  BC Eclipse Satine (not toooo bad)
  Somerset Enhanced
  Somerset Enhanced Textured
  Concord Rag
  Somerset Enhanced Velvet

  YMMV.

  Thanks
  Bob Obenland









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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Just received the April European issue of Macworld and think the 
cover discs will be of interest to all of us:

Disc I:  Free MacAcademy tutorial called " Mac OSX Revealed" well 
worth watching.

On Disc 2 a demo of PhotoRetouch Pro. Having played with it for half 
an hour I think it might be one of those rare Wow! applications. It 
seems to have an amazing WYSIWYG  control over converting colour to 
B&W, sharpening, ICC profiling and in fact all the things that seems 
to take hours to do in Photoshop! If all this is really true then it 
might be the first serious threat to Photoshop .

If you can´t get the magazine for the demo then you can check the details on:

http://www.binuscan.com/prp/

That should keep you all busy on something new over Easter!

Jerry.

> Bob,
>
> Just to be fair...did you also have a silver gelatin and RC print up there
too?
>
> Steadman

Well...hmmm.... no   ;-)).

But I'm also not thinking aboout selling Silver or RC prints...

...nor being as scientific as some other folks,
but I have learned enough to at least put
a major disclaimer on any piezo print....

and maybe not use piezo inks anymore.

I have been a Jon Cone fan since long before
inkjetmall but I'm really re-thinking inks now.

Don't have answers just questions.  :-)

Thanks
Bob

Bob Obenland wrote:

>I have just re-reviewed some natural light fade tests of piezo inks
>...
>Compared with all dark stored prints the warming has created
>a significant RELATIVE change in density between the 100% patch
>and the 95% patch on all papers.

>(for Mike K - this helps greatly to separate out
>those compressed dark tones)  ;-))

I agree that the relative fade at 90-95% is where it shows up worst.  It may
actually justify printing those tones slightly compressed in anticipation of
the greater relative fading.  What comes to mind for Epson driver users is
that we could finalize the grayscale file such that it looks OK with either
sRGB or AdobeRGB and then print (convert the g/s to RGB for printing) with
the sRGB setting.  The sRGB compresses these very dark tones relative to
AdobeRGB.  So, there might be a rather easy way to compensate for what is
going to happen down the road.

>The only paper that fared well is Waterford DI CP 185
>which warmed less than uncoated Somerset Velvet.

That is impressive.  I'm not familiar with the paper.  Where is it sold, and
what type of surface/look does it have?

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

> Waterford papers can be had from http://www.cheapjoes.com  This is a terrific New York Art store with a very impressive catalogue. Great
> service and prices.

Jerry

>
>
> >The only paper that fared well is Waterford DI CP 185
> >which warmed less than uncoated Somerset Velvet.
>
> That is impressive.  I'm not familiar with the paper.  Where is it sold, and
> what type of surface/look does it have?
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
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