Digital BW, The Print

It REALLY sounds as if you have the inks in the wrong positions.
Possibly mislabeled inks? Do the FS inks have to be in a different
position when using the piezo driver, or ar they same as epson. I think different.

Jerry

Jim HARRIS wrote:

> 
> I seem to have no luck with digital black & white.
> 
> I started with the Piezography system on an 1160 printer.  Got beautiful, stunning results.  But after a few months the dreaded "Density Shift Syndrome" (DSS) set in with severely washed out midtones and a greenish cast.  Inkjet mall was very good about sending me replacement cartridges for my CIS system.  I reinstalled Piezo inks in a new 1160 and got beautiful results again....for about 4-6 weeks.  Then signs of DSS appeared in the new printer.  I reluctantly decided to throw in the towel with Piezo inks and give MIS FS inks a try after reading so many good things about them in this group.
> 
> Today I hooked up new cartridges on my CIS system,filled them with new MIS FS ink, and got perfect nozzle checks the first time.  Then I tried printing only to discover that I still have absolutely no density in the mid-tones.  The prints are actually worse than my worst Piezo DSS prints - almost solarized.
> 
> I just printed a gray-scale step-wedge and found that things appear normal from about 0% to around 30% and from about 85-90% to 100%.  But from about 35% to 80% things are a real mess.  There's a catastrophic drop in density from 85% to 80%, no discernable difference in density from about 60% to 80%, and the density at 50-55% is actually greater than from 60% to 80%.
> 
> What is going on?  If any of you can give me some guidance, I'd appreciate it very much.  To help eliminate some variables:
> 
> 1. I am printing on the right side of the paper (I'm using EAM with the logo on the back).
> 2.  I double and triple-checked the inks before loading my CIS system.  I am certain that I loaded the inks, as labeled by MIS, in the right positions.
> 
> Here's what I'm afraid of.  Could a severe case of DSS with the Piezo inks have done permanent damage o my print head?  I did put the MIS inks into the 1160 that had a very bad case of DSS, but I have run a full set of Epson cartridges through it since then and it seemed to be printing just fine with the color inks (although I didn't ever print anything too critical with it and carefully analyze the results).
> 
> Any thoughts, suggestions, advice, etc. would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jim
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Jerry:

I agree that it sounds like the inks are reversed, but I don't think
that's the case.  The darker density at 50-55% (vs 60-80%) I think is
just a by-product of the completely flat tones I'm getting from
60-80%.  To put it another way, all of the steps on the printed
step-wedge from the 60% band to the 80% band are indentical in
density.  They also happen to be slightly less dense than the 50 & 55%
bands.

It appears to me that the problem lies in the nozzle responsible for
printing the 60-80% portion of a step wedge (roughly).  Which nozzle
is that?  I think I may try the Fantastik injection method someone
else (flyfishing) mentioned.

Jim

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> It REALLY sounds as if you have the inks in the wrong positions.
> Possibly mislabeled inks? Do the FS inks have to be in a different
> position when using the piezo driver, or ar they same as epson. I
think different.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> Jim HARRIS wrote:
> > 
> > I seem to have no luck with digital black & white.
> > 
> > I started with the Piezography system on an 1160 printer.  Got
beautiful, stunning results.  But after a few months the dreaded
"Density Shift Syndrome" (DSS) set in with severely washed out
midtones and a greenish cast.  Inkjet mall was very good about sending
me replacement cartridges for my CIS system.  I reinstalled Piezo inks
in a new 1160 and got beautiful results again....for about 4-6 weeks.
 Then signs of DSS appeared in the new printer.  I reluctantly decided
to throw in the towel with Piezo inks and give MIS FS inks a try after
reading so many good things about them in this group.
> > 
> > Today I hooked up new cartridges on my CIS system,filled them with
new MIS FS ink, and got perfect nozzle checks the first time.  Then I
tried printing only to discover that I still have absolutely no
density in the mid-tones.  The prints are actually worse than my worst
Piezo DSS prints - almost solarized.
> > 
> > I just printed a gray-scale step-wedge and found that things
appear normal from about 0% to around 30% and from about 85-90% to
100%.  But from about 35% to 80% things are a real mess.  There's a
catastrophic drop in density from 85% to 80%, no discernable
difference in density from about 60% to 80%, and the density at 50-55%
is actually greater than from 60% to 80%.
> > 
> > What is going on?  If any of you can give me some guidance, I'd
appreciate it very much.  To help eliminate some variables:
> > 
> > 1. I am printing on the right side of the paper (I'm using EAM
with the logo on the back).
> > 2.  I double and triple-checked the inks before loading my CIS
system.  I am certain that I loaded the inks, as labeled by MIS, in
the right positions.
> > 
> > Here's what I'm afraid of.  Could a severe case of DSS with the
Piezo inks have done permanent damage o my print head?  I did put the
MIS inks into the 1160 that had a very bad case of DSS, but I have run
a full set of Epson cartridges through it since then and it seemed to
be printing just fine with the color inks (although I didn't ever
print anything too critical with it and carefully analyze the results).
> > 
> > Any thoughts, suggestions, advice, etc. would be appreciated.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Jim
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks,
Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
to keep them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
"flames."
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
various resources on the homepage.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Jim, how are your nozzle checks? Is EVERY single line visible?

I suppose this could be a printer problem. I have never had that
problem.  For a long time now, everything has been working perfectly.

Send me every single setting you are using. EVERY single one.  (Also,
what color space are you using in Photoshop?)  If you have even one
wrong, this could be the result, if it's one of the really important ones.

If it IS a printhead, the injection of windex directly into the
printhead should clear it!
But if EVERY one of your nozzles check out, I wouldn't think you would
have a clog, or air in your tubes.

Jerry 

> I agree that it sounds like the inks are reversed, but I don't think
> that's the case.  The darker density at 50-55% (vs 60-80%) I think is
> just a by-product of the completely flat tones I'm getting from
> 60-80%.  To put it another way, all of the steps on the printed
> step-wedge from the 60% band to the 80% band are indentical in
> density.  They also happen to be slightly less dense than the 50 & 55%
> bands.
> 
> It appears to me that the problem lies in the nozzle responsible for
> printing the 60-80% portion of a step wedge (roughly).  Which nozzle
> is that?  I think I may try the Fantastik injection method someone
> else (flyfishing) mentioned.
> 
> Jim
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
> <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > It REALLY sounds as if you have the inks in the wrong positions.
> > Possibly mislabeled inks? Do the FS inks have to be in a different
> > position when using the piezo driver, or ar they same as epson. I
> think different.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> > Jim HARRIS wrote:
> > >
> > > I seem to have no luck with digital black & white.
> > >
> > > I started with the Piezography system on an 1160 printer.  Got
> beautiful, stunning results.  But after a few months the dreaded
> "Density Shift Syndrome" (DSS) set in with severely washed out
> midtones and a greenish cast.  Inkjet mall was very good about sending
> me replacement cartridges for my CIS system.  I reinstalled Piezo inks
> in a new 1160 and got beautiful results again....for about 4-6 weeks.
>  Then signs of DSS appeared in the new printer.  I reluctantly decided
> to throw in the towel with Piezo inks and give MIS FS inks a try after
> reading so many good things about them in this group.
> > >
> > > Today I hooked up new cartridges on my CIS system,filled them with
> new MIS FS ink, and got perfect nozzle checks the first time.  Then I
> tried printing only to discover that I still have absolutely no
> density in the mid-tones.  The prints are actually worse than my worst
> Piezo DSS prints - almost solarized.
> > >
> > > I just printed a gray-scale step-wedge and found that things
> appear normal from about 0% to around 30% and from about 85-90% to
> 100%.  But from about 35% to 80% things are a real mess.  There's a
> catastrophic drop in density from 85% to 80%, no discernable
> difference in density from about 60% to 80%, and the density at 50-55%
> is actually greater than from 60% to 80%.
> > >
> > > What is going on?  If any of you can give me some guidance, I'd
> appreciate it very much.  To help eliminate some variables:
> > >
> > > 1. I am printing on the right side of the paper (I'm using EAM
> with the logo on the back).
> > > 2.  I double and triple-checked the inks before loading my CIS
> system.  I am certain that I loaded the inks, as labeled by MIS, in
> the right positions.
> > >
> > > Here's what I'm afraid of.  Could a severe case of DSS with the
> Piezo inks have done permanent damage o my print head?  I did put the
> MIS inks into the 1160 that had a very bad case of DSS, but I have run
> a full set of Epson cartridges through it since then and it seemed to
> be printing just fine with the color inks (although I didn't ever
> print anything too critical with it and carefully analyze the results).
> > >
> > > Any thoughts, suggestions, advice, etc. would be appreciated.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Jim
> > >
> > >
> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks,
> Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > >
> > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > - Include your full name with your message.
> > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
> to keep them short.
> > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> header.
> > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> "flames."
> > > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
> various resources on the homepage.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Jerry:

Yes, every single line on a nozzle check is there.  However, the
densities on the nozzle check are messed up too.  There is no
discernable difference between the densities from the yellow and
magenta nozzles.

All printing has been through the Piezo plug-in with MIS FS inks. 
This really seems to be a printer problem to me rather than an ink or
software problem.

Jim

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> Jim, how are your nozzle checks? Is EVERY single line visible?
> 
> I suppose this could be a printer problem. I have never had that
> problem.  For a long time now, everything has been working perfectly.
> 
> Send me every single setting you are using. EVERY single one.  (Also,
> what color space are you using in Photoshop?)  If you have even one
> wrong, this could be the result, if it's one of the really important
ones.
> 
> If it IS a printhead, the injection of windex directly into the
> printhead should clear it!
> But if EVERY one of your nozzles check out, I wouldn't think you would
> have a clog, or air in your tubes.
> 
> Jerry 
> 
> > I agree that it sounds like the inks are reversed, but I don't think
> > that's the case.  The darker density at 50-55% (vs 60-80%) I think is
> > just a by-product of the completely flat tones I'm getting from
> > 60-80%.  To put it another way, all of the steps on the printed
> > step-wedge from the 60% band to the 80% band are indentical in
> > density.  They also happen to be slightly less dense than the 50 & 55%
> > bands.
> > 
> > It appears to me that the problem lies in the nozzle responsible for
> > printing the 60-80% portion of a step wedge (roughly).  Which nozzle
> > is that?  I think I may try the Fantastik injection method someone
> > else (flyfishing) mentioned.
> > 
> > Jim
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
> > <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > > It REALLY sounds as if you have the inks in the wrong positions.
> > > Possibly mislabeled inks? Do the FS inks have to be in a different
> > > position when using the piezo driver, or ar they same as epson. I
> > think different.
> > >
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > > Jim HARRIS wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I seem to have no luck with digital black & white.
> > > >
> > > > I started with the Piezography system on an 1160 printer.  Got
> > beautiful, stunning results.  But after a few months the dreaded
> > "Density Shift Syndrome" (DSS) set in with severely washed out
> > midtones and a greenish cast.  Inkjet mall was very good about sending
> > me replacement cartridges for my CIS system.  I reinstalled Piezo inks
> > in a new 1160 and got beautiful results again....for about 4-6 weeks.
> >  Then signs of DSS appeared in the new printer.  I reluctantly decided
> > to throw in the towel with Piezo inks and give MIS FS inks a try after
> > reading so many good things about them in this group.
> > > >
> > > > Today I hooked up new cartridges on my CIS system,filled them with
> > new MIS FS ink, and got perfect nozzle checks the first time.  Then I
> > tried printing only to discover that I still have absolutely no
> > density in the mid-tones.  The prints are actually worse than my worst
> > Piezo DSS prints - almost solarized.
> > > >
> > > > I just printed a gray-scale step-wedge and found that things
> > appear normal from about 0% to around 30% and from about 85-90% to
> > 100%.  But from about 35% to 80% things are a real mess.  There's a
> > catastrophic drop in density from 85% to 80%, no discernable
> > difference in density from about 60% to 80%, and the density at 50-55%
> > is actually greater than from 60% to 80%.
> > > >
> > > > What is going on?  If any of you can give me some guidance, I'd
> > appreciate it very much.  To help eliminate some variables:
> > > >
> > > > 1. I am printing on the right side of the paper (I'm using EAM
> > with the logo on the back).
> > > > 2.  I double and triple-checked the inks before loading my CIS
> > system.  I am certain that I loaded the inks, as labeled by MIS, in
> > the right positions.
> > > >
> > > > Here's what I'm afraid of.  Could a severe case of DSS with the
> > Piezo inks have done permanent damage o my print head?  I did put the
> > MIS inks into the 1160 that had a very bad case of DSS, but I have run
> > a full set of Epson cartridges through it since then and it seemed to
> > be printing just fine with the color inks (although I didn't ever
> > print anything too critical with it and carefully analyze the
results).
> > > >
> > > > Any thoughts, suggestions, advice, etc. would be appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Jim
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks,
> > Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The
page is at:
> > > >
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > > >
> > > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > > - Include your full name with your message.
> > > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
> > to keep them short.
> > > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
> > header.
> > > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > "flames."
> > > > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
> > various resources on the homepage.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks,
Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
to keep them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
"flames."
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the
various resources on the homepage.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/