Digital BW, The Print

Robin,

You wrote:

>I have an Epson Stylus Photo 780, and ...
>I just got the MIS Full Spectrum inks ...
>However, I cannot find any workflow or curves to
>use with the 780 and these inks. ...

>An older post to this group mentioned that the MIS full spectrum inks
>were designed for the piezography drivers, but the MIS site says
>nothing about this. ...

See the following post, below, which includes my earlier post relating to
using the MIS FS inks with the 1290 and Epson driver.

Basically, the FS inks were designed for the Piezo driver.  I guess MIS just
doesn't want to mention the "P" word on its website.  In my recent posting
regarding the 1290 I suggested an alternate ink order for the FS inks that
seems to work.  However, for a pre-loaded hextone FS cartridge, I doubt
you'll be able to get acceptable results from any workflow except Piezo.
The Epson driver can't handle the Piezo approach of having the same density
inks in the "light" ink spots as in the full strength ink chambers.

I will suggest to MIS that they clarify the webpage to eliminate this
confusion.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

_________________

From: janishilesh [mailto:shilesh.jani@...]
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 4:08 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson 1290 with MIS Fullspectrum ink --
Hextone FS formula

>Paul and Others,

>I have tried, and have now been using the FS-N inks loaded as you
>outlined below, using the epson driver for a few weeks. They produce
>the best b/w prints I have ever made. I used a non partitioned RGB
>curve, which I have e-mailed to Martin Wesley. If appropriate, he may
>want to post the curve. I use the 1280.

>Shilesh Jani
...
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > Here is the alternative FS-Hextone-Epson-driver ink positions I
> recommend.
> > It is based on the following observations.  First, the light inks
> tend to be
> > about 60% of the density of the full strength inks.  Happily, the
> FS/Piezo
> > magenta is almost exactly 60% the density of the cyan ink.
Second,
> the
> > current Piezo/FS ink mix is actually too light, being designed
for
> the old
> > quad machines.  As such, radical curves are needed to control
it.
> These
> > curves leave artifacts and destroy grayscale.  Thus, a darker ink
> mix should
> > be better.
> >
> > So, the alternative FS ink mix for the Epson driver is as follows:
> >
> > Black -- Use the MIS FS (or VM) black;
> >
> > Cyan position -- Use FS cyan-position ink;
> >
> > Light cyan position -- Use FS magenta-position ink;
> >
> > Magenta position -- Use FS cyan-position ink;
> >
> > Light magenta -- Use FS magenta-position ink;
> >
> > Yellow -- Use FS yellow-position ink.  (The FS magenta-position
ink
> may work
> > here also.  I'd test both of them.)
> >
> > This proposed FS-Epson-Driver inkset can probably be controlled
> either by
> > mild partitioning inks or just a simple grayscale workflow.  It
> might print
> > rather well with no workflow at all.
> >
> > I think there is a very good chance that the FS inks in the above
> positions
> > in a 1280 or 1290 will produce the best B&W print possible,
beating
> all
> > current workflows -- Piezo software included.  I hope someone
will

> give it a
> > try and let us know how it works.
> >
> > Paul
> > http://www.PaulRoark.com

Robin,

I would suggest that you see if you can return the cartridge to MIS since
there is no workflow for those inks in that printer. Piezo doesn't support
it either as far as I can tell. If you do want to use quad inks in a 780 I
think that you will be on your own a bit as far as developing a workflow.
You could try the MIS VM ink set and then try modifying some of the RGB
curves used by other printers. Or the original Quads and try the Brandin or
Nevins methods.

In all honesty, I would suggest that you pick one of the printers that is
more widely supported for grayscale inks. Your life will be much simpler.

Martin Wesley

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...>
To: "DigitalB&WPrint" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 2:33 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Epson Photo 780 & MIS sixtone inks - HELP!


> Robin,
>
> You wrote:
>
> >I have an Epson Stylus Photo 780, and ...
> >I just got the MIS Full Spectrum inks ...
> >However, I cannot find any workflow or curves to
> >use with the 780 and these inks. ...
>
> >An older post to this group mentioned that the MIS full spectrum inks
> >were designed for the piezography drivers, but the MIS site says
> >nothing about this. ...
>
> See the following post, below, which includes my earlier post relating to
> using the MIS FS inks with the 1290 and Epson driver.
>
> Basically, the FS inks were designed for the Piezo driver.  I guess MIS
just
> doesn't want to mention the "P" word on its website.  In my recent posting
> regarding the 1290 I suggested an alternate ink order for the FS inks that
> seems to work.  However, for a pre-loaded hextone FS cartridge, I doubt
> you'll be able to get acceptable results from any workflow except Piezo.
> The Epson driver can't handle the Piezo approach of having the same
density
> inks in the "light" ink spots as in the full strength ink chambers.
>
> I will suggest to MIS that they clarify the webpage to eliminate this
> confusion.
>
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
>
> _________________
>
> From: janishilesh [mailto:shilesh.jani@...]
> Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 4:08 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson 1290 with MIS Fullspectrum ink --
> Hextone FS formula
>
> >Paul and Others,
>
> >I have tried, and have now been using the FS-N inks loaded as you
> >outlined below, using the epson driver for a few weeks. They produce
> >the best b/w prints I have ever made. I used a non partitioned RGB
> >curve, which I have e-mailed to Martin Wesley. If appropriate, he may
> >want to post the curve. I use the 1280.
>
> >Shilesh Jani
> ...
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark
> > <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > > Here is the alternative FS-Hextone-Epson-driver ink positions I
> > recommend.
> > > It is based on the following observations.  First, the light inks
> > tend to be
> > > about 60% of the density of the full strength inks.  Happily, the
> > FS/Piezo
> > > magenta is almost exactly 60% the density of the cyan ink.
> Second,
> > the
> > > current Piezo/FS ink mix is actually too light, being designed
> for
> > the old
> > > quad machines.  As such, radical curves are needed to control
> it.
> > These
> > > curves leave artifacts and destroy grayscale.  Thus, a darker ink
> > mix should
> > > be better.
> > >
> > > So, the alternative FS ink mix for the Epson driver is as follows:
> > >
> > > Black -- Use the MIS FS (or VM) black;
> > >
> > > Cyan position -- Use FS cyan-position ink;
> > >
> > > Light cyan position -- Use FS magenta-position ink;
> > >
> > > Magenta position -- Use FS cyan-position ink;
> > >
> > > Light magenta -- Use FS magenta-position ink;
> > >
> > > Yellow -- Use FS yellow-position ink.  (The FS magenta-position
> ink
> > may work
> > > here also.  I'd test both of them.)
> > >
> > > This proposed FS-Epson-Driver inkset can probably be controlled
> > either by
> > > mild partitioning inks or just a simple grayscale workflow.  It
> > might print
> > > rather well with no workflow at all.
> > >
> > > I think there is a very good chance that the FS inks in the above
> > positions
> > > in a 1280 or 1290 will produce the best B&W print possible,
> beating
> > all
> > > current workflows -- Piezo software included.  I hope someone
> will
> > give it a
> > > try and let us know how it works.
> > >
> > > Paul
> > > http://www.PaulRoark.com
>
>
>
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Robin;
If you have the patience to fill your own carts, I suggest you try 
something similar to the arrangement I posted in 'Do-it-yourself 
inksets', Only skip the VM business & use the individual FS-N inks. 
I'm getting great results that way; a little work could get you 
exactly what you need.

Steve
www.stevekphoto.com