----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Lindman" <plindman@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Help. Question on VM inksets and Sepia.
Martin,
Paul Roark wrote that someone had used his re-arranged MIS-FS inkset with
the Epson driver using a grayscale curve successfully. I must have missed
this message or it was sent to Paul directly. In my couple of tries with
this I didn't have much success. I've had pretty good luck though using
Pressready, a cystomized separation setup (with a very skeleton black to
minimize dots in the highlights and midtones) and that ink diagram(?). Of
course it's pretty warm (I should have tried it with the FS-Neutral inks)
but otherwise seems much more malleable than the VM-partioned curve
workflow.
I'd like to try that grayscale curve if it's out thereS
Thanks
Peter Lindman
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "iwasnvrhere" <iwasnvrhere@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 2:25 PM
> Subject: [Digital BW] Help. Question on VM inksets and Sepia.
>
>
>> I have a few questions about the vm sets I hope someone out
>> there can answer for me.
>> First question, It seems that one would lose a portion in the density
>> range by removing one the channels used for the blue-like 25% for a
>> quad set. Is that true and if not how does it compare with a four or
>> six channel set?
>
> Jeff,
>
> You could probably do just fine in B&W with just black and 2 shades of
gray.
> There is an ink set on the market in Europe that does just that. Epson
> apparently plans to do it with black, a gray and color inks. As an very
> interesting exercise print out a B&W file with the Epson driver set to
> "Black Only". A nice grainy 35mm neg works best. I think you will be
amazed
> at how close you get with just one ink.
>
> The one issue with the VM sets is that as you get to the extreme of having
> the toner full off the curves become more radical and there is greater
risk
> of posterizing the image when the RGB curve is applied. This can be
avoided
> or the impact diminished by staying in 16-bit mode.
>
>>
>> Second: From the earliest experience with quad tone inks I've noticed
>> that the paper dominates the overall warmness/coolness of the print.
>> Warm paper = warm print, neutral paper = neutral or much less warm
>> print. Question is: Would a dyed paper (say blue, warm,or whatever)
>> used with a full quad/hex tone inkset give optimum densities and
>> control over the warmth?
>
> Well I would say that the color of the ink tends to dominate the shadows
and
> the color of the paper dominates the highlights. You can see this in
silver
> prints where the shadows may be towards green or purple but the highlights
> tend towards a blue or yellow.
>
> This brings up the idea of "complex chromaticity" which I cannot pronounce
> and will instead refer to as chromatic complexity. Inkjet prints vary in
hue
> based on the ink color and the paper color. I find that the VM inks have
> more of a "photographic" feel because they add an additional color and
> increase the amount of hue variation as the tones change.
>
>>
>> Third question is about the max warmth attainable. I've done zero
>> work with sepia but what I have seen of "sepia" prints look much more
>> orange/brown than the warmest B&W tone. How close do any of the B&W
>> inks out there come to a "true" or traditional sepia and can anyone
>> point out a standard which I can use as THE SEPIA cause I've "sepia"
>> range from orange to bronze. Is anyone working on a solution that can
>> sweep from sepia to selenium?
>
> If you look in the files section you can see an example of how sepia the
> Sepia-VM can get. The answer is very sepia but it is a fixed sepia tone.
>
> The real answer to all of this is a system of inks that uses Black, 2 (six
> ink printer) or 3 (seven ink printer) shades of gray with C, Y, and M in
the
> remaining three channels. With a RIP or driver that gave you full control
> over all 6 to 7 channels independently you could have so many choices you
> wouldn't know what to do! If you want to stay close to neutral then a
small
> gamut CYM set would be ideal. (That's what I am looking for!) There is so
> much that could be done if there was a profit motive. <G>
>
> Martin
>
>
>
>
>
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Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
Please follow these basic guidelines:
- Include your full name with your message.
- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
- Complete your Yahoo profile.
- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
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