Yahoo Groups archive

Digital BW, The Print

Index last updated: 2026-04-28 22:56 UTC

Thread

Re: [Digital BW] Re: More quadtone experiences

Re: [Digital BW] Re: More quadtone experiences

2001-08-23 by Jerry Olson

Hi Tyler, Nope, there is nothing in the folder at all. I didn't even know the folder was there, so I know I didn't trash it!  Weird.

Jerry

Tyler Boley wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > It doesn't come up there. It's not one of the choices.
>
> Open your system folder
> open Application Support folder
> open Adobe folder
> open Color folder
> open Settings folder
>
> if there isn't a file called-
>
> Photoshop 5 Default Spaces.csf
>
> Then you've somehow trashed it, or done some sort of custom PS6.x installation that doesn't include it, and it won't be an
> option for you.
> Tyler

Re: [Digital BW] Re: More quadtone experiences

2001-08-23 by Todd Flashner

Jerry

I'm sure you can set up the same parameters as a custom setup.
Go

Edit>Color Settings>Custom

Can you get that far? This is where you would have selected your RGB and
Grayscale color spaces originally.

The main parameters for your workflow (meaning taking from the PS 5
defaults) will be to select sRGB as your RGB space, and Gamma 2.2 for your
Grayscale space. Spot = 20% Dot gain, and CMYK is PS 5 default CMYK.

Hit save and name it something that will have meaning for you, and just make
sure that name is loaded before you close the window.

If you are not able to do a custom setup, reinstall the PS software.

Todd
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Hi Tyler, Nope, there is nothing in the folder at all. I didn't even know the
> folder was there, so I know I didn't trash it!  Weird.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> Tyler Boley wrote:
> 
>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson <jerryolson@r...>
>> wrote:
>>> It doesn't come up there. It's not one of the choices.
>> 
>> Open your system folder
>> open Application Support folder
>> open Adobe folder
>> open Color folder
>> open Settings folder
>> 
>> if there isn't a file called-
>> 
>> Photoshop 5 Default Spaces.csf
>> 
>> Then you've somehow trashed it, or done some sort of custom PS6.x
>> installation that doesn't include it, and it won't be an
>> option for you.
>> Tyler

[Digital BW] Re: More quadtone experiences

2001-08-23 by Tyler Boley

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> Hi Tyler, Nope, there is nothing in the folder at all.

See? Am I not always right? Is it not hard to think of me as some
sort of god? How is it possible the world is not breaking my 
door down begging me to take thousands of dollars for my prints? It's
just unbelievable isn't it?
Isn't it?
... uh...

> I didn't even know the folder was there, so I know I didn't trash
it!  Weird.

Perhaps you've done a clean system install at some point and the
folder didn't get moved over, who knows? I'll send you 
what should be in there. Remind me if you don't get it by morning.
Tyler

Re: [Digital BW] Re: More quadtone experiences

2001-08-23 by Jerry Olson

Todd, I have never used the srgb colorspace or 2.2 gamma. I'm on a mac. I've always used gamma 1.8 and Adobe RGB Color space.  Other than
that my settings are as paul's are.

The only time I EVER used the srgb space was when I was using his curves with the cold PIEZO inkset, but I'm not doing that anymore.

I just got my printer/montior profile for torchon paper tonight, and I have to use the Adobe RGB space and the Torchon profile for that
paper now.

Looks like a winner. The first print of the photo disk image was great!

Jerry




Todd Flashner wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Jerry
>
> I'm sure you can set up the same parameters as a custom setup.
> Go
>
> Edit>Color Settings>Custom
>
> Can you get that far? This is where you would have selected your RGB and
> Grayscale color spaces originally.
>
> The main parameters for your workflow (meaning taking from the PS 5
> defaults) will be to select sRGB as your RGB space, and Gamma 2.2 for your
> Grayscale space. Spot = 20% Dot gain, and CMYK is PS 5 default CMYK.
>
> Hit save and name it something that will have meaning for you, and just make
> sure that name is loaded before you close the window.
>
> If you are not able to do a custom setup, reinstall the PS software.
>
> Todd
>
> > Hi Tyler, Nope, there is nothing in the folder at all. I didn't even know the
> > folder was there, so I know I didn't trash it!  Weird.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> > Tyler Boley wrote:
> >
> >> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson <jerryolson@r...>
> >> wrote:
> >>> It doesn't come up there. It's not one of the choices.
> >>
> >> Open your system folder
> >> open Application Support folder
> >> open Adobe folder
> >> open Color folder
> >> open Settings folder
> >>
> >> if there isn't a file called-
> >>
> >> Photoshop 5 Default Spaces.csf
> >>
> >> Then you've somehow trashed it, or done some sort of custom PS6.x
> >> installation that doesn't include it, and it won't be an
> >> option for you.
> >> Tyler
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Digital BW] Re: More quadtone experiences

2001-08-23 by Jerry Olson

Dear God,

Thanks!

Jerry

Got my first profile just an hour ago. First print on torchon was excellent! (at least under tungsten lights!)

Jerry


Tyler Boley wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
> <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > Hi Tyler, Nope, there is nothing in the folder at all.
>
> See? Am I not always right? Is it not hard to think of me as some
> sort of god? How is it possible the world is not breaking my
> door down begging me to take thousands of dollars for my prints? It's
> just unbelievable isn't it?
> Isn't it?
> ... uh...
>
> > I didn't even know the folder was there, so I know I didn't trash
> it!  Weird.
>
> Perhaps you've done a clean system install at some point and the
> folder didn't get moved over, who knows? I'll send you
> what should be in there. Remind me if you don't get it by morning.
> Tyler
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Digital BW] Re: More quadtone experiences

2001-08-23 by Todd Flashner

on 8/22/01 10:33 PM, Jerry Olson wrote:

> Todd, I have never used the srgb colorspace or 2.2 gamma. I'm on a mac. I've
> always used gamma 1.8 and Adobe RGB Color space.  Other than
> that my settings are as paul's are.
> 
> The only time I EVER used the srgb space was when I was using his curves with
> the cold PIEZO inkset, but I'm not doing that anymore.

All good by me Jerry, I was just relaying what the PS 5 default settings
are, as Paul recommended. But use what works for you! I happen to use Adobe
RGB and Gamma 2.2. Dan Culbertson was of the mind you'll get a better
grayscale to RGB conversion if both color spaces (RGB and Grayscale) are of
the same gamma, and Adobe RGB is gamma 2.2, so by his reasoning your
grayscale space should also be gamma 2.2, as Paul suggests (sRGB also has a
gamma of 2.2 BTW). So if anything you might try changing your grayscale
space to gamma 2.2, but then again, I subscribe to the philosophy "if it
ain't broke, don't fix it".

Todd

> 
> I just got my printer/montior profile for torchon paper tonight, and I have to
> use the Adobe RGB space and the Torchon profile for that
> paper now.
> 
> Looks like a winner. The first print of the photo disk image was great!
> 
> Jerry

When you speak of profile do you mean a custom curve set, or are you talking
about a piezo driver profile?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Todd Flashner wrote:
> 
>> Jerry
>> 
>> I'm sure you can set up the same parameters as a custom setup.
>> Go
>> 
>> Edit>Color Settings>Custom
>> 
>> Can you get that far? This is where you would have selected your RGB and
>> Grayscale color spaces originally.
>> 
>> The main parameters for your workflow (meaning taking from the PS 5
>> defaults) will be to select sRGB as your RGB space, and Gamma 2.2 for your
>> Grayscale space. Spot = 20% Dot gain, and CMYK is PS 5 default CMYK.
>> 
>> Hit save and name it something that will have meaning for you, and just make
>> sure that name is loaded before you close the window.
>> 
>> If you are not able to do a custom setup, reinstall the PS software.
>> 
>> Todd
>> 
>>> Hi Tyler, Nope, there is nothing in the folder at all. I didn't even know
>>> the
>>> folder was there, so I know I didn't trash it!  Weird.
>>> 
>>> Jerry
>>> 
>>> Tyler Boley wrote:
>>> 
>>>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson <jerryolson@r...>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> It doesn't come up there. It's not one of the choices.
>>>> 
>>>> Open your system folder
>>>> open Application Support folder
>>>> open Adobe folder
>>>> open Color folder
>>>> open Settings folder
>>>> 
>>>> if there isn't a file called-
>>>> 
>>>> Photoshop 5 Default Spaces.csf
>>>> 
>>>> Then you've somehow trashed it, or done some sort of custom PS6.x
>>>> installation that doesn't include it, and it won't be an
>>>> option for you.
>>>> Tyler
>> 
>> 
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
>> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>> 
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>

Jerry Olson's Quadtone Experiences

2001-08-23 by hslavitt@cpdb.com

Jerry,

Did you get a black and white profile made?  How does one do that?  
Or are you talking about a color profile?  Where did you get your 
profile made in any event?

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson 
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> Dear God,
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Jerry
> 
> Got my first profile just an hour ago. First print on torchon was 
excellent! (at least under tungsten lights!)
> 
> Jerry

Re: [Digital BW] Re: More quadtone experiences

2001-08-23 by Brian Mikiten

Can someone give a good explanation of why a 2.2 gamma is standard on a PC but a 1.8 on a mac? I'm doing B/W work on a G4/PS/GF/1160/Piezo machine and trying to get things calibrated. This comes up as an issue regularly.

Brian

<snip>
  Todd, I have never used the srgb colorspace or 2.2 gamma. I'm on a mac. I've always used gamma 1.8 and Adobe RGB Color space.  



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: More quadtone experiences

2001-08-23 by Jerry Olson

If you use 1.8 gamma on a mac, it looks darker on a PC monitor. You can check out what it would look like on a PC clone under photshops View, Proof Setup window. When you choose windows rgb, the monitor goes darker. I've
always read to keep the monitor at 1.8 for a Mac.

Jerry


Brian Mikiten wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>  Can someone give a good explanation of why a 2.2 gamma is standard on a PC but a 1.8 on a mac? I'm doing B/W work on a G4/PS/GF/1160/Piezo machine and trying to get things calibrated. This comes up as an issue regularly.
>
> Brian
>
> <snip>
>   Todd, I have never used the srgb colorspace or 2.2 gamma. I'm on a mac. I've always used gamma 1.8 and Adobe RGB Color space.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Digital BW] Gamma

2001-08-23 by Todd Flashner

>> Can someone give a good explanation of why a 2.2 gamma is standard on a PC
>> but a 1.8 on a mac? I'm doing B/W work on a G4/PS/GF/1160/Piezo machine and
>> trying to get things calibrated. This comes up as an issue regularly.
>> 
>> Brian 

There is monitor gamma, and there is working space gamma. The two are
independent and don't need to relate. The Mac 1.8 convention is for monitor
gamma. There is no recommendations against using a working space with a 2.2
gamma, like Adobe RGB. Even on the monitor side, when the monitor is
calibrated and profiled, and an image is viewed through a color management
aware program, like Photoshop, and including most recent web browsers, the
programs will compensate the display to view the image virtually
identically, regardless of the gamma selected. Many prepress Mac people are
now calibrating their monitors to 6500K gamma 2.2, whereas in the past the
standard was 5000K g1.8. They find they get a better screen to
lightbox/viewing booth match (in other words a batter match in a properly
controlled and calibrated viewing environment).

I'm no expert, I've just asked questions about this stuff on headier lists.
If you have a real interest in the subject I suggest you ask it on the Adobe
PS forum, or the Apple ColorSync list, where you'll get real answers from
real experts.

There will only be a problem if/when you view your images through less color
savvy programs. I don't know all of which are and are not color savvy, but
programs like Office, Pagemaker, Quark, etc, are on a case by case basis,
and very version dependent.

My bottom line: do a good monitor calibration at 6500K and either g1.8 or
2.2, use Adobe RGB for your RGB working space, and view your images through
current versions of programs, and you'll be alright. That goes for Mac or
PC. There are other options, but what I've stated above is the de facto norm
right now.

Todd
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> If you use 1.8 gamma on a mac, it looks darker on a PC monitor. You can check
> out what it would look like on a PC clone under photshops View, Proof Setup
> window. When you choose windows rgb, the monitor goes darker. I've
> always read to keep the monitor at 1.8 for a Mac.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
> Brian Mikiten wrote:
> 

>> 
>> <snip>
>> Todd, I have never used the srgb colorspace or 2.2 gamma. I'm on a mac. I've
>> always used gamma 1.8 and Adobe RGB Color space.
>> 
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> 
>> 
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
>> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>> 
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] Gamma

2001-08-23 by Todd Flashner

BTW, when I wrote this below, I was just thinking of general usage, but if a
workflow recommends another space, like Paul uses sRGB, by all means go with
that.

Todd
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> My bottom line: do a good monitor calibration at 6500K and either g1.8 or
> 2.2, use Adobe RGB for your RGB working space, and view your images through
> current versions of programs, and you'll be alright. That goes for Mac or
> PC. There are other options, but what I've stated above is the de facto norm
> right now.
> 
> Todd

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.