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RE: [Digital BW] Epson Premium Glossy with Quadtones? -apotential glossy option for MIS pigmented inks

RE: [Digital BW] Epson Premium Glossy with Quadtones? -apotential glossy option for MIS pigmented inks

2002-04-19 by Richard Wolfson

I'm using their "Generations ProPhoto Lustre" microporous coated paper
with my own custom hex-black inkest, and so far, I'm excited about the
results. My inks: black is Gen4, grays are dilutions of Gen3 tinted warm
& cold with Gen4 CMY. I'm putting down a lot of ink, and still having no
problem with bronzing.

Compared to the best matte papers (e.g., photo rag, museo):

Drawbacks: slow drying, fragile surface. feels like plastic 

Strengths: beautiful image with long, rich gray scale and awesome Dmax
(>2.5). These prints look, (but don't feel) like classic air-dried
fiber-based glossy silver-gelatin prints.

My tentative bottom line: looks like a win. 

Richard Wolfson
www.rwolfson.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Todd Flashner [mailto:tflash@...] 
> Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 2:27 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson Premium Glossy with 
> Quadtones? -apotential glossy option for MIS pigmented inks
> 
> 
> on 4/17/02 11:13 AM, Editor P.O.V. Image Service wrote:
> 
> > I have been told, by knowledgeable parties (not mediastreet 
> employees
> > either) that the new mediastreet glossy and semigloss media 
>  work fine 
> > with pigmented inks (they are meant fro the Generations inks)..  My 
> > source indicated they will even work with the MIS VM set...
> 
> You mean it's not the inks it's the paper? Where have I heard 
> that before?... ;-)
>

Re: [Digital BW] Epson Premium Glossy with Quadtones? -apotential glossy option for MIS pigmented inks

2002-04-19 by Robert G. Morrison

According to Media Street's web site this paper is only compatible with
their Gen5 ink system.  My experience is that all of the microporous
papers...for which there are now many...all require an overspray to keep the
pigment on the surface of the paper...unless you are using Gen5...that
apparently has binder in the ink.  I recently screened about a dozen
different glossy papers with PiezoBW inks (started doing this same screen
last night with MIS FSN inks) and found relatively little problem with
bronzing...but smear was a problem with every paper.  Dmax's were in the
1.75 to 2.0 range for the most part with the piezo inks.  Its possible that
you are getting the extra dmax bump from the 25% dye in the Gen4.  While I
would have in the past said the presence of the dye was bad...the new
results posted the other day with gloss papers and the dye ink may call this
into question.   I wonder if the dye sinks into the paper and the pigment
sits on top...protecting the dye from burning out...hmmm.  I'd really like
to see this result replicated, however, because it is counter to all the
testing done in the past by Wilhelm.

Robert



On 4/19/02 1:30 PM, "Richard Wolfson" <richard@...> wrote:

> I'm using their "Generations ProPhoto Lustre" microporous coated paper
> with my own custom hex-black inkest, and so far, I'm excited about the
> results. My inks: black is Gen4, grays are dilutions of Gen3 tinted warm
> & cold with Gen4 CMY. I'm putting down a lot of ink, and still having no
> problem with bronzing.
> 
> Compared to the best matte papers (e.g., photo rag, museo):
> 
> Drawbacks: slow drying, fragile surface. feels like plastic
> 
> Strengths: beautiful image with long, rich gray scale and awesome Dmax
> (>2.5). These prints look, (but don't feel) like classic air-dried
> fiber-based glossy silver-gelatin prints.
> 
> My tentative bottom line: looks like a win.
> 
> Richard Wolfson
> www.rwolfson.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Todd Flashner [mailto:tflash@...]
>> Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 2:27 PM
>> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson Premium Glossy with
>> Quadtones? -apotential glossy option for MIS pigmented inks
>> 
>> 
>> on 4/17/02 11:13 AM, Editor P.O.V. Image Service wrote:
>> 
>>> I have been told, by knowledgeable parties (not mediastreet
>> employees
>>> either) that the new mediastreet glossy and semigloss media
>>  work fine 
>>> with pigmented inks (they are meant fro the Generations inks)..  My
>>> source indicated they will even work with the MIS VM set...
>> 
>> You mean it's not the inks it's the paper? Where have I heard
>> that before?... ;-)
>> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 

----------------------
Robert Morrison
rmorrison@...

310-397-2704

4131 Bledsoe Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 90066

RE: [Digital BW] Epson Premium Glossy with Quadtones? -apotential glossy option for MIS pigmented inks

2002-04-20 by Nij aoth44

Would now be a good time to remind you all of this link:

www.mwords.co.uk/pages/PiezoBW/inkCompatabilityPiezoBW.htm

which tested many glossy papers with Piezo BW inks.

Hope it is of some use... to someone!

Best regards,
nij

Nigel Rheam
MWORDS Limited   www.mwords.co.uk   Digital Fine Art
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Wolfson [mailto:richard@...]
> Sent: 19 April 2002 21:30
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Epson Premium Glossy with Quadtones?
> -apotential glossy option for MIS pigmented inks
> 
> 
> I'm using their "Generations ProPhoto Lustre" microporous coated paper
> with my own custom hex-black inkest, and so far, I'm excited about the
> results. My inks: black is Gen4, grays are dilutions of Gen3 tinted warm
> & cold with Gen4 CMY. I'm putting down a lot of ink, and still having no
> problem with bronzing.
> 
> Compared to the best matte papers (e.g., photo rag, museo):
> 
> Drawbacks: slow drying, fragile surface. feels like plastic 
> 
> Strengths: beautiful image with long, rich gray scale and awesome Dmax
> (>2.5). These prints look, (but don't feel) like classic air-dried
> fiber-based glossy silver-gelatin prints.
> 
> My tentative bottom line: looks like a win. 
> 
> Richard Wolfson
> www.rwolfson.com

RE: [Digital BW] Epson Premium Glossy with Quadtones? -apotentialglossy option for MIS pigmented inks

2002-04-20 by Nij aoth44

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert G. Morrison [mailto:rmorrison@...]
<snip - about pigmented ink longevity on gloss papers>
   I wonder if the dye sinks into the paper and the pigment
> sits on top...protecting the dye from burning out...hmmm.  I'd really like
> to see this result replicated, however, because it is counter to all the
> testing done in the past by Wilhelm.
>
> Robert

That would be my explanation too Robert, but it's a guess. It is certainly
my explanation for why (I think) that Piezo BW inks print very warm on
Somerset Velvet Enhanced paper; We know this paper is pretty bad for dye
longevity (dye presumably sinks right into paper base, or perhaps
'chemically fades' through some odd reaction with the paper - and what you
have left in that case is the brown-ish carbon pigment sitting in the paper
coating, with the dyes well behind it out of site.

Or something ;)

Nij

Re: [Digital BW] Epson Premium Glossy with Quadtones? -apotentialglossy option for MIS pigmented inks

2002-04-20 by Julian Thomas

Nij what spray do you use???

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nij aoth44" <nigel@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 11:36 AM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Epson Premium Glossy with
Quadtones? -apotentialglossy option for MIS pigmented inks


> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Robert G. Morrison [mailto:rmorrison@...]
> <snip - about pigmented ink longevity on gloss papers>
>    I wonder if the dye sinks into the paper and the pigment
> > sits on top...protecting the dye from burning out...hmmm.  I'd really
like
> > to see this result replicated, however, because it is counter to all the
> > testing done in the past by Wilhelm.
> >
> > Robert
>
> That would be my explanation too Robert, but it's a guess. It is certainly
> my explanation for why (I think) that Piezo BW inks print very warm on
> Somerset Velvet Enhanced paper; We know this paper is pretty bad for dye
> longevity (dye presumably sinks right into paper base, or perhaps
> 'chemically fades' through some odd reaction with the paper - and what you
> have left in that case is the brown-ish carbon pigment sitting in the
paper
> coating, with the dyes well behind it out of site.
>
> Or something ;)
>
> Nij
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

RE: [Digital BW] Epson Premium Glossy with Quadtones? -apotentialglossy option for MIS pigmented inks

2002-04-20 by Nij aoth44

I didn't - yet.

I have some Gepe stuff to try (made by Ghiant in Belgium) - but in all my
tests so far ever I have just said vague stuff like 'may benefit from a
spray coating' rather than having actually done it myself.

I thought the stuff you'd done on Kodak Ultima Satin was really nice - yes
there were a couple of spray marks - but they were only noticeable on close
inspection or by tilting the image so you got the reflection off the coating
rather than saw the image.

Nij
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Julian Thomas [mailto:julianthomas@...]
> Sent: 20 April 2002 10:51
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson Premium Glossy with Quadtones?
> -apotentialglossy option for MIS pigmented inks
>
>
> Nij what spray do you use???
>
> Julian

Re: [Digital BW] Epson Premium Glossy with Quadtones? -apotentialglossy option for MIS pigmented inks

2002-04-20 by Julian Thomas

Ghiant is what I use. It is very rough and uneven. I've tried small coats
and thick coats. The ultima was ok but I couldn't sell it...  folk buying
prints tend to get their noses close! I was hoping ot pick up some Lyson
when I come to London. Do you want to arrange a print meet for 2-5?? Usual
place? I'll bring a cd of images and some A4 of the Holga stuff.

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nij aoth44" <nigel@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 12:14 PM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Epson Premium Glossy with
Quadtones? -apotentialglossy option for MIS pigmented inks


> I didn't - yet.
>
> I have some Gepe stuff to try (made by Ghiant in Belgium) - but in all my
> tests so far ever I have just said vague stuff like 'may benefit from a
> spray coating' rather than having actually done it myself.
>
> I thought the stuff you'd done on Kodak Ultima Satin was really nice - yes
> there were a couple of spray marks - but they were only noticeable on
close
> inspection or by tilting the image so you got the reflection off the
coating
> rather than saw the image.
>
> Nij
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Julian Thomas [mailto:julianthomas@...]
> > Sent: 20 April 2002 10:51
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson Premium Glossy with Quadtones?
> > -apotentialglossy option for MIS pigmented inks
> >
> >
> > Nij what spray do you use???
> >
> > Julian
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

RE: [Digital BW] Epson Premium Glossy with Quadtones? -apotentialglossy option for MIS pigmented inks

2002-04-20 by Nij aoth44

hi Julian,

I'll take this off-list with you! But I'd not forgotten the meeting!

nij
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Julian Thomas [mailto:julianthomas@...]
> Sent: 20 April 2002 11:41
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Epson Premium Glossy with Quadtones?
> -apotentialglossy option for MIS pigmented inks
>
>
> Ghiant is what I use. It is very rough and uneven. I've tried small coats
> and thick coats. The ultima was ok but I couldn't sell it...  folk buying
> prints tend to get their noses close! I was hoping ot pick up some Lyson
> when I come to London. Do you want to arrange a print meet for 2-5?? Usual
> place? I'll bring a cd of images and some A4 of the Holga stuff.
>
> Julian

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