Digital BW, The Print

Beginners question:
What is the advantages of using Cone's piezo driver with Epson 
1160 instead of just using the Epson driver?
Bjorn

On Sunday, April 21, 2002, at 10:38 , bjornaagedk wrote:

> Beginners question:
> What is the advantages of using Cone's piezo driver with Epson
> 1160 instead of just using the Epson driver?
> Bjorn
>
>

I suggest you contact Rudolph Tegners Museum at Dronningmolle ( tel. 49 
71 91 77). Ask if they still have the Zone 94 foto exhibition, I suspect 
it is still there.

If you visit the museum you will see some Piezography ( Cone) prints 
made by me on an 1160. And, by other photographers, toned piezo prints 
made on a 3000 with OEM ( Epson) ink and the Epson driver, traditional 
B&W silver/ toned and some alternative traditional printing. I think all 
this will give you a good idea of what you can expect from digital 
printing.

One of the interesting things about this exhibitation is that most of 
the prints were mounted on aluminum plates and have spent the winter in 
an unheated concrete museum with a winter temperature of, this year, 
about minus 9C, on a sunny day the temperature can rise to plus 30C. 
Lots of high and low humidity.


Jerry.

Hi Bjorn,

There are a number of advantages:
* Nearly 50 paper profiles (though some of them may be repeats of the same
profile applied to papers with the same coating but different names);
* Controlling the printing process precisely for 'quadtone' so that you get
dot-free images, even in the highlights;
* Print from greyscale files instead of colour (that other systems
require) - these files are smaller;
* Print from 16-bit greyscale files for keeping data in 16-bit, extended
tonal control, less munging of data in 8-bit transforms etc;
* Print nearly any-length of panoramic image (certainly exceeding 88" if I
recall correctly, not sure if there is a practical or absolute limit);
* Print speed dramatically exceeds Epson driver on some models (e.g. 1160
and 980 are faster than their counterpart Epson driver, but the 3000 was
slowed down quite a bit to help control paper-feed issues with that
printer).

Many people have said that the profiles alone make it worth the money :) and
whilst the gap is slimming down, the driver does seem to be more 'reliable'
than the other options (e.g. it has been said that Piezo BW can cope with
grainy and smooth images, but MIS VM-type solutions benefit from an image
being grainy, as smooth tonal changes can show up as banding). This may have
been improved (in the alternatives) though.

The down-sides are that you need an 'good' as opposed to average printer.
Some people on this list like to use the Piezo driver with special variants
of the MIS 'FS' Quad inks instead of the Cone ones, so you do have a choice
of ink too. One slight disadvantge is that you do need to leave slightly
larger borders (mostly just top-and-bottom as I recall) on the page compared
to Epson drivers.

Disclosure here is that I sell Piezo products in the UK, but I am not the
only person to like it!

Hope this helps,
Nij

Nigel Rheam
MWORDS Limited   www.mwords.co.uk   Digital Fine Art

> -----Original Message-----
> From: bjornaagedk [mailto:bs@...]
> Sent: 21 April 2002 09:38
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Piezo driver or not?
>
>
> Beginners question:
> What is the advantages of using Cone's piezo driver with Epson
> 1160 instead of just using the Epson driver?
> Bjorn

The piezo driver on the 1160 fills in the dots by making more passes than
the epson driver and in effect increases the resolution. You also get
profiles for papers. On the1160, IMO, the driver is very much needed. Use
MIS FS inks though instead of the coneinks - you save a fifth the price for
no loss in quality

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "bjornaagedk" <bs@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 10:38 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Piezo driver or not?


> Beginners question:
> What is the advantages of using Cone's piezo driver with Epson
> 1160 instead of just using the Epson driver?
> Bjorn
>
>
>
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Bjorn,

You wrote:

>What is the advantages of using Cone's piezo driver with Epson
>1160 instead of just using the Epson driver?

Since the advantages have been outlined by the others, I'll just note that I
have the Piezo driver, 1160 and 3000.  I occasionally use the Piezo driver,
but mostly just for testing.  I almost always use the Epson driver for
actual prints.

I prefer the variable-tone approach because of the flexibility of being able
to vary the tones.  My 3000 now has the VM-Sepia-Neutral in it.  While the
3000 has a reputation of having large dots with the Epson driver, at display
print size it is extremely difficult to tell the Piezo and Epson drivers
apart.  The medium format Tmax 100 film grain is the limiting factor in
quality.

As for the 1160, some do see the toner dots.  I don't in actual prints at
normal viewing distance.

The Photoshop image adjustment curves that control the inks in the
variable-tone system are not all as refined as they could be.  Also, the
partitioning curves are so radical/steep, that there can be individual
printer differences.  So, one's willingness to do some tweaking of the
control curves can be a help in some cases.

Neither Piezo nor the Epson driver give perfect gray scale ramps.  I can see
defects in all of them.  However, I think the Piezo software as well as the
better variable-tone curves give excellent results.

I prefer the Epson driver in part because it allows me to do other work
while it is printing (the Piezo driver does not -- a serious flaw to me),
and it gives slightly darker blacks.  The advantages of the Epson driver are
such that I even use it when using the Piezo-compatible MIS FS inks, which I
strongly recommend -- especially the FS-Neutral version.

So, while the Piezo driver has it's good points, I find the net advantages
of the Epson driver make it the one I use.

That said, I'm glad I have the Piezo driver.  The price for the cheapest
outfit (1160 carts -- don't buy the bulk ink) isn't too bad if you're really
into photography and printing.  It's a tool that has it's uses and is, in my
view, worth having.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

At 11:45 AM +0200 4/21/02, meander@... wrote:
>
>I suggest you contact Rudolph Tegners Museum at Dronningmolle ( tel. 49
>71 91 77). Ask if they still have the Zone 94 foto exhibition, I suspect
>it is still there.
>
>If you visit the museum you will see some Piezography ( Cone) prints
>made by me on an 1160. And, by other photographers, toned piezo prints
>made on a 3000 with OEM ( Epson) ink and the Epson driver, traditional
>B&W silver/ toned and some alternative traditional printing. I think all
>this will give you a good idea of what you can expect from digital
>printing.
>
>One of the interesting things about this exhibitation is that most of
>the prints were mounted on aluminum plates and have spent the winter in
>an unheated concrete museum with a winter temperature of, this year,
>about minus 9C, on a sunny day the temperature can rise to plus 30C.
>Lots of high and low humidity.
>
>Jerry.
>


I am curious what you used to mount the images to the Aluminum?  Here 
we are using a product called Vac-U-Mount.  Do you spray the surface 
after?   If so, with what product?  Do you use glazing or are the 
prints left in the open air?

thanks

Bill Agee
-- 

b i l l  a g e e  s t u d i o
c a p i s t r a n o  b e a c h  c a l i f o r n i a

billagee@...
http://www.redsilver.com

>
> I am curious what you used to mount the images to the Aluminum?  Here
> we are using a product called Vac-U-Mount.  Do you spray the surface
> after?   If so, with what product?  Do you use glazing or are the
> prints left in the open air?
>
> thanks
>
> Bill Agee
>

Bill,

In my reply to Alan I described the mounting material as double sided 
adhesive film covering the entire back of the print, I know it is 
available world wide perhaps under different brand names. We decided not 
to use a spray or roll on adhesive because the prints were made on a 
wide variety of papers and with the changing atmosphere a liquid 
adhesive may have absorbed good old H2O from the periods of high 
humidity. As a museum they do record temperature and humidity and the 
humidity can be 90 per cent.

Likewise, we did not spray the surface afterwards because of the number 
of different printing techniques used and no glazing was used. The 
prints were left in open air to enable people to see the difference 
between traditional and digital printing and compare the images with the 
unprotected  sculptures.

The aluminum sheets were as big as a door with several prints on each 
sheet. No consideration was given to archivalnes  or print sales because 
this was a unique opportunity to be totally creative. If sales had been 
the most important point then we would have used laquired aluminum cut 
to size, possibly framed and glazed.

I would be grateful if you could describe the Vac-U-Mount product and if 
you are using   aluminum, do you coat it with something before mounting 
the print.

Jerry.

>
> I am curious what you used to mount the images to the Aluminum?  Here
> we are using a product called Vac-U-Mount.  Do you spray the surface
> after?   If so, with what product?  Do you use glazing or are the
> prints left in the open air?
>
> thanks
>
> Bill Agee
>

Bill,

In my reply to Alan I described the mounting material as double sided 
adhesive film covering the entire back of the print, I know it is 
available world wide perhaps under different brand names. We decided not 
to use a spray or roll on adhesive because the prints were made on a 
wide variety of papers and with the changing atmosphere a liquid 
adhesive may have absorbed good old H2O from the periods of high 
humidity. As a museum they do record temperature and humidity and the 
humidity can be 90 per cent.

Likewise, we did not spray the surface afterwards because of the number 
of different printing techniques used and no glazing was used. The 
prints were left in open air to enable people to see the difference 
between traditional and digital printing and compare the images with the 
unprotected  sculptures.

The aluminum sheets were as big as a door with several prints on each 
sheet. No consideration was given to archivalnes  or print sales because 
this was a unique opportunity to be totally creative. If sales had been 
the most important point then we would have used laquired aluminum cut 
to size, possibly framed and glazed.

I would be grateful if you could describe the Vac-U-Mount product and if 
you are using   aluminum, do you coat it with something before mounting 
the print.

Jerry.

On 4/21/02 3:01 AM, "Nij aoth44" <nigel@...> wrote:

> * Nearly 50 paper profiles (though some of them may be repeats of the same
> profile applied to papers with the same coating but different names);

This is worth every penny...particularly as you are starting out...trying to
find your paper.  Once you have found that paper the Epson Driver is fine.
You can download a workflow/curves and tweak until you get it right for that
paper.  If you are using a 1160...the Epson driver is so slow...you may want
to stay with the piezo driver. I would have never gotten a chance to
seriously consider all the papers that I did if I would have had to tweak
curves for every paper to see if they are any good.

I think every quad printer should get a copy of the piezo software...that
said...use MIS inks!

Robert