Digital BW, The Print

I wanted to thank everyone for their input on a possible 
heavier/whiter sheet of Concorde.  We're going to work with the mill 
to try to get trials made.

In the meantime, Concorde is now available in 24" rolls in 256gsm 
(for those of you who like the color, but wanted a heavier sheet).  
If you would like more information, please e-mail me offline.

Joshua Levine

How about the LPM coating on the Somerset Enhanced stock? This seems to be
your best coating, and your most popular stock, no?

Todd

> I wanted to thank everyone for their input on a possible
> heavier/whiter sheet of Concorde.  We're going to work with the mill
> to try to get trials made.
> 
> In the meantime, Concorde is now available in 24" rolls in 256gsm
> (for those of you who like the color, but wanted a heavier sheet).
> If you would like more information, please e-mail me offline.
> 
> Joshua Levine
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>

Working on it. . .

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Todd Flashner <tflash@e...> 
wrote:

> How about the LPM coating on the Somerset 
> Enhanced stock? This seems to be your best 
> coating, and your most popular stock, no?
> 
> Todd

I\ufffdve been trying some sample packs of papers,and was pretty amazed with some
negative findings. This Legion Concorde Rag,for example,prints in a way that
turns a sharp image VERY fuzzy... Did others found that too? BTW,the
Somersets do that too,just not that much...

[ ],Andr\ufffd

I haven't tried Concorde Rag yet, but I print a lot on Somerset - I've
found that it's really hard sometimes to know which is the correct
side to print on (the Legion packaging adds to the confusion for me) -
when I've printed on the wrong side, I get very very fuzzy prints. Are
you certain that you printed on the correct side of the paper?

Just a thought :)

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., André Vallejo <avs@p...> wrote:
> I´ve been trying some sample packs of papers,and was pretty amazed
with some
> negative findings. This Legion Concorde Rag,for example,prints in a
way that

> turns a sharp image VERY fuzzy... Did others found that too? BTW,the
> Somersets do that too,just not that much...
> 
> [ ],André

In a message dated 04/20/2002 10:30:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
avs@pobox.com writes:


> I´ve been trying some sample packs of papers,and was pretty amazed with some
> negative findings. This Legion Concorde Rag,for example,prints in a way that
> turns a sharp image VERY fuzzy... Did others found that too? BTW,the
> Somersets do that too,just not that much...
> 
> [ ],André
> 
You'll need a custom curve or profile for these papers. Are you using the 
piezo driver?
You don't mention your printer or inks, or workflow. If they are fuzzy then 
its workflow related.
Steve M.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I did.The package came with a "print this side label",and each sheet had
it\ufffds own label...


Message: 16
   Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 17:38:29 -0000

   From: "charles_bandes" <byronbulb@...>
Subject: Re: Concorde Rag

I haven't tried Concorde Rag yet, but I print a lot on Somerset - I've
found that it's really hard sometimes to know which is the correct
side to print on (the Legion packaging adds to the confusion for me) -
when I've printed on the wrong side, I get very very fuzzy prints. Are
you certain that you printed on the correct side of the paper?

Just a thought :)

Does anybody have any experience with Legion Concorde Rag paper? When 
I first started out with piezo printing I tested all of the available 
papers and really liked the tonality of this paper. Then I read that  
Concorde Rag did not have a good track record when it came to 
longevity so I abandoned it for Han. photo rag. Perhaps I was 
misinformed! In the recent InkJetMall newsletter they are 
recommending Concorde Rag for use with carbon sepia inks.  The tones 
are beautiful. I would like to try Concorde Rag again and wonder what 
others have found. Is it considered an archival paper on the same 
level as photo rag?

When I was still using the original Piezobw inkset I remember Jon Cone
reporting that Concorde Rag did not do well on the "South Window" test
he was doing at the time.

If it's still the same unchanged paper, then there may be some
longevity issue with it. But we have to remember that the
lightfastness of inksets have improved considerably over the past few
years.

The winner of that "South Window" test, if I remember correctly, was
Epson Photo Paper.

Andre Moreau



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "yohnnyboy"
<chhopk@l...> wrote:

> 
> Does anybody have any experience with Legion Concorde Rag paper? When 
> I first started out with piezo printing I tested all of the available 
> papers and really liked the tonality of this paper. Then I read that  
> Concorde Rag did not have a good track record when it came to 
> longevity so I abandoned it for Han. photo rag. Perhaps I was 
> misinformed! In the recent InkJetMall newsletter they are 
> recommending Concorde Rag for use with carbon sepia inks.  The tones 
> are beautiful. I would like to try Concorde Rag again and wonder what 
> others have found. Is it considered an archival paper on the same 
> level as photo rag?

Yep, early on in the first days of the MIS quadtones it was also one of the
papers I tested along with the few others that were around at the time
(Somerset Velvet etc).

While it was a nice paper, it was very warm.

No, if it's still the same paper as then, it really doesn't stand up very
well. I was recently cleaning out my collection of old half used papers. In
there were several sheets from that original Concorde Rag packet - very
significant yellowing going in maybe an inch from the edges, as well as
mottling all over each sheet of about 10 left (all unused).

Now, these weren't kept in "archival" conditions - but it's basically around
20c and low humidity most of the time. In addition, they were in with
several other lots of paper from the same vintage. Some old Somerset Velvet
uncoated - which looked just fine. Some old Epson Photo Glossy which had a
bit of the expected yellowing around the edges, various matt papers, which
again, pretty much looked fine. The Concorde Rag was unusable.

tim a

That's very interesting. WIlhelm did some impressive tests rating  Concorde Rag and the 
Roland fully pigmented archival inkset several years ago but he never said WHICH Concord 
Rag it was he tested. Those ratings were W 150+ years or so. Later I heard that some of 
the carbon pigment inksets were giving less than stellar results with that paper. I know 
one thig, the roll variety of the warm Concorde Rag ( Rolland also distributes an off white, 
not really warm version also which makes it even more confusing and sometimes they call 
that Providence Rag ) is thicker but simply not even the same paper as the thinner warm  
sheet sold by Legion. The thick roll version of the yellow CR looked horrible when I tested 
it two different times.

So, who knows. I know it is the only truely warm paper that I have found which looks 
Platinum like, when used with warm carbon or Lyson inksets. I have done some really 
beautiful work with that paper over the years but always sprayed it with UV spray.  I 
noticed recently that Cone Editions suggests using it with their Carbon Sepia inkset for 
Platinum appearance.

Does anyone know of a similar rag paper which can produce those golden yellowish 
highlights that look so unique with warm toned images. I have't seen any. I always 
wondered why someone else didn't make one, couldn't they just add warm pigment in the 
production of the paper? 

john

john dean wrote:
> 
> That's very interesting. WIlhelm did some impressive tests rating  Concorde Rag and the 
> Roland fully pigmented archival inkset several years ago but he never said WHICH Concord 
> Rag it was he tested. Those ratings were W 150+ years or so. Later I heard that some of 
> the carbon pigment inksets were giving less than stellar results with that paper. I know 
> one thig, the roll variety of the warm Concorde Rag ( Rolland also distributes an off white, 
> not really warm version also which makes it even more confusing and sometimes they call 
> that Providence Rag ) is thicker but simply not even the same paper as the thinner warm  
> sheet sold by Legion. The thick roll version of the yellow CR looked horrible when I tested 
> it two different times.
> 
> So, who knows. I know it is the only truely warm paper that I have found which looks 
> Platinum like, when used with warm carbon or Lyson inksets. I have done some really 
> beautiful work with that paper over the years but always sprayed it with UV spray.  I 
> noticed recently that Cone Editions suggests using it with their Carbon Sepia inkset for 
> Platinum appearance.
> 
> Does anyone know of a similar rag paper which can produce those golden yellowish 
> highlights that look so unique with warm toned images. I have't seen any. I always 
> wondered why someone else didn't make one, couldn't they just add warm pigment in the 
> production of the paper? 
> 
> john

Some days ago I saw a page on the net that said Concorde Rag is 
manufactured by Lana, Vosges/Alsace, France.  I think the paper 
itself may have its origin there but I doubt it is coated in 
France for the US market.  Legion could have used rag paper from 
other sources as well and sold it under the same name.  I have 
used Lana paper in the past in silkscreen printing and the 
quality was quite consistent for rag papers. Color of the paper 
is a mix of the paper itself and the coating, changes in color 
can happen with the paper and the coating. Sometimes that yellow 
discoloration disappears with enough light exposure.

It seems Lana is introducing new inkjet papers now but I didn't 
find a booth on the Photokina so couldn't test samples:

http://www.inspirationalarts.ie/content/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=105&Itemid=138&limit=1&limitstart=3

Arches have changed their program as well and I tested some 
sheets but didn't like the print quality so far. There's a 
difference between the papers sold in Europe and the US though, 
so that may be the reason. Coating is done per continent. We 
don't have the Infinity. There is a new thick paper sheet range 
for mattes that can be printed.
The Canson Mi-Teintes Ivory inkjet paper is really warm (creme) 
but has a rough surface. Don't know whether that is distributed 
in the US.

Bergger has two nice papers. Arches paper but much better 
coating. At least for the European quality.

The best news is Innova.  In my opinion it could be better than 
Hahnemuhle's quality. Two former HM people are in charge there. 
Excellent prints with MIS7600 and Ultrachrome inks. Can hold more 
ink than Photo Rag.  With the same PR profile. a 10000CF loaded 
with MIS7600 I got 1.55 Dmax on PR and between 1.51 and 1.54 on 
the range of Innova papers. Bleeding on Photo Rag was higher than 
on the Innovas so another profile and paper setting will bridge 
that small gap in density. In the printed sample book that I also 
got is a B&W print on the first page (Ultrachrome, 2200) that has 
a black area with a 1.67 Dmax, Fibaprint paper. That's the same I 
can make on PhotoRag with Ultratone inks on PhotoRag. In my 
opinion a good example that the Innova papers are the ones to get 
now. Price is much lower than HM in the US as I understand it.

www.innovaart.com

Innova will be at the NYC show next week.

No stockholder :-)

Ernst

Hi Ernst-

Price in the US is ~$200 for  50 13²x19²-  Or do you know something that I
don¹t?   ;^)

Regards,

Bill Morse
Digital Eye Editions
343 Medford St., Studio 2A
Somerville, MA 02145
(617) 429-3298


on 10/15/04 4:42 AM, Ernst Dinkla wrote:

> 
> The best news is Innova.  ... Price is much lower than HM in the US as I
> understand it.
> 
> www.innovaart.com
> 
> Innova will be at the NYC show next week.
> 
> No stockholder :-)
> 
> Ernst
> 
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