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OEM Ink Pricing & Tactics Invetigated by EU Anti-Trust Commissioner

OEM Ink Pricing & Tactics Invetigated by EU Anti-Trust Commissioner

2002-05-22 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service

" Simon Aughton
EU to investigate ink pricing
The EU is to investigate allegations of anti-competitive practices by
leading printer makers, following complaints that users are being
overcharged for ink cartridges.

The worldwide market for printers and ink and toner cartridges is
dominated by four companies: Canon, Epson, Lexmark and Hewlett-Packard.
The vendors make most of their profits in this market from disposable
cartridges, whilst making next to nothing on the printers. You can
currently buy an Epson Stylus C60 printer for around \ufffd69 - and that
includes one black and one colour ink cartridge. Replacements for these
cost \ufffd22 and \ufffd20 respectively.

The manufacturers have encouraged consumers to buy replacement
cartridges supplied by themselves, rather than 'unbranded' cartridges
from third-parties. Some have suggested that the use of third-party
supplies may result in inferior quality prints and in some cases damage
to the printers.

For example, Epson's Setup and daily Use guide for the Stylus Color 740
says, 'EPSON recommends the use of genuine EPSON ink cartridges. Other
products not manufactured by EPSON may cause damage to your printer not
covered by EPSON's
warranties.'

Nonetheless, third parties have gradually eroded the printer
manufacturers' market share, largely by refilling the original
cartridges for a fraction of the price. According to the Financial Times
some estimates put their market share at around 11 per cent, worth some
$3 billion.

Under EU law, companies cannot exploit a strong market position to
restrict competition. European competition commissioner Mario Monti
raised the issue this week with US anti-trust regulator Charles James
and has concluded that there is, 'probably a case here for us. We intend
to examine this in detail.' The EU can fine companies up to 10 per cent
of their turnover if it finds them guilty of anti-competitive practices.

Hewlett-Packard has already denied any wrongdoing. A spokesman said, 'HP
does not prevent customers from using cartridges from other suppliers.'

The US authorities are also believed to be considering an investigation."


My personal favorite quote is in the second piece listed below:

"'We're really giving customers a benefit they didn't have before,' said
Epson marketing manager Rajeev Mishra, whose company has installed smart
chips on many replacement cartridges. Mishra says it's done so customers
can track ink use and other printing statistics."

Apparently, in Japanese, the word "benefit" must translate to something
akin to the word hemorrhoid...  ;-)

You can read more on it in the following articles:

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/business/1413484

http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/business/technology/personal_technology/3225599.htm






[Keith]



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violation of these conditions shall be subject to a $1500/image
liquidated damages charge, in addition to any applicable Copyright
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[POV IMage Service Banner]
****************************************************************
{ The P.O.V. Image Service Website is still at http://www.p-o-v-image.com/ }



</div>

RE: [Digital BW] OEM Ink Pricing & Tactics Invetigated by EU Anti-Trust Commissioner

2002-05-22 by Lloyd O'Daniel

This is good news. Perhaps it will discourage Epson from extending this
sculduggery to the large-format printers, and curtail it with the small
ones. Their first attempt with the big printers is the outrageous ink
waste when switching from Photo to Matte Black in the 7600/9600
printers. I almost laughed out loud whan I read Royce Bair's statement
to the effect that Epson, when asked about having a blacks-only purge,
stated that it was impossible due to the design of the heads. Do they
think we are so stupid that we don't remember who the hell designed the
heads in the first place? Give me a break. Either they didn't think far
enough ahead to design the heads for the ink change, and therefore are
incompetent. Or, more likely IMO, saw a way to bilk the customers with
wasted ink, and are therefore dishonest.
 
Anyone who thinks the Intellidge chips are there for any reason besides
the anti-competitive one is pretty naive, IMO. It's a dongle, pure and
simple. Can you imagine the furor if Microsoft required a dongle for
Windows to operate which was provided only with their software, forcing
other vendors to come up with reverse-engineered kludges?
 
Lloyd
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Editor P.O.V. Image Service [mailto:editor@...] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 9:48 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] OEM Ink Pricing & Tactics Invetigated by EU
Anti-Trust Commissioner


" Simon Aughton
EU to investigate ink pricing
The EU is to investigate allegations of anti-competitive practices by
leading printer makers, following complaints that users are being
overcharged for ink cartridges.

The worldwide market for printers and ink and toner cartridges is
dominated by four companies: Canon, Epson, Lexmark and Hewlett-Packard.
The vendors make most of their profits in this market from disposable
cartridges, whilst making next to nothing on the printers. You can
currently buy an Epson Stylus C60 printer for around £69 - and that
includes one black and one colour ink cartridge. Replacements for these
cost £22 and £20 respectively.

The manufacturers have encouraged consumers to buy replacement
cartridges supplied by themselves, rather than 'unbranded' cartridges
from third-parties. Some have suggested that the use of third-party
supplies may result in inferior quality prints and in some cases damage
to the printers.

For example, Epson's Setup and daily Use guide for the Stylus Color 740
says, 'EPSON recommends the use of genuine EPSON ink cartridges. Other
products not manufactured by EPSON may cause damage to your printer not
covered by EPSON's
warranties.'

Nonetheless, third parties have gradually eroded the printer
manufacturers' market share, largely by refilling the original
cartridges for a fraction of the price. According to the Financial Times
some estimates put their market share at around 11 per cent, worth some
$3 billion.

Under EU law, companies cannot exploit a strong market position to
restrict competition. European competition commissioner Mario Monti
raised the issue this week with US anti-trust regulator Charles James
and has concluded that there is, 'probably a case here for us. We intend
to examine this in detail.' The EU can fine companies up to 10 per cent
of their turnover if it finds them guilty of anti-competitive practices.

Hewlett-Packard has already denied any wrongdoing. A spokesman said, 'HP
does not prevent customers from using cartridges from other suppliers.'

The US authorities are also believed to be considering an
investigation."


My personal favorite quote is in the second piece listed below:

"'We're really giving customers a benefit they didn't have before,' said
Epson marketing manager Rajeev Mishra, whose company has installed smart
chips on many replacement cartridges. Mishra says it's done so customers
can track ink use and other printing statistics."

Apparently, in Japanese, the word "benefit" must translate to something
akin to the word hemorrhoid...  ;-)

You can read more on it in the following articles:

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/business/1413484

http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/business/technology/perso
nal_technology/3225599.htm






[Keith]



****************************************************************
CONFIDENTIALITY & COPYRIGHT NOTICE:
This e-mail message, including attachments and contents, is © Copyright,
Keith Krebs, 2001-2002, All Rights Reserved. It is expressly for the
sole use of the intended recipient and may contain confidential and
privileged information. Absent the express written authorization of the
author, any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, transfer, or
distribution is explicitly prohibited and taken at your own risk. If you
are not, or are unsure whether you are, the intended recipient, please
contact the sender immediately and destroy all copies of the original
message. Violations will be prosecuted to the FULL extent allowed under
applicable civil and criminal law. Imagery published or distributed in
violation of these conditions shall be subject to a $1500/image
liquidated damages charge, in addition to any applicable Copyright
violation penalties.

[POV IMage Service Banner]
****************************************************************
{ The P.O.V. Image Service Website is still at
http://www.p-o-v-image.com/ }



</div>





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] OEM Ink Pricing & Tactics Invetigated by EU Anti-Trust Commissioner

2002-05-23 by Bob Frost

Loyd,

Hang on a minute. If the EU does stop printer manufacturers trying to make
their customers use their ink, all that will happen is that the prices of
printers will double or triple. They are not going to continue selling
printers for little or no profit, if they don't get the ink sales. You can't
have it both ways!

Bob Frost.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lloyd O'Daniel" <lodaniel@...>
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] OEM Ink Pricing & Tactics Invetigated by EU
Anti-Trust Commissioner


This is good news. Perhaps it will discourage Epson from extending this
sculduggery to the large-format printers, and curtail it with the small
ones.

Re: [Digital BW] OEM Ink Pricing & Tactics Invetigated by EU Anti-Trust Commissioner

2002-05-23 by Editor P.O.V. Image Service

Bob Frost wrote:

> Loyd,
>
> Hang on a minute. If the EU does stop printer manufacturers trying to make
> their customers use their ink, all that will happen is that the prices of
> printers will double or triple. 


No.. What will happen is that printers will be price realistically 
instead of having the cost shifted to the inks..

That will allow more diversification and innovation in the industry.  

One obvious reason is that to make a profit with the EPSON model, you 
need both printers AND an extensive supply chain/network to be able to 
supply the necessary consumables.  That means only the largest companies 
can make a go at it..

If printers and consumables are priced separately and rationally, then 
each area will have significant competition.. (Look at Xerox copiers, 
toner, and papers).... You can buy lots of different paper, use networks 
of toner suppliers, etc..  Not as easy with inkjets.. WHY?  Because the 
entire life cycle of the product and consumables is under the attempted 
control of the OEM...


> They are not going to continue selling
> printers for little or no profit, if they don't get the ink sales. You 
> can't
> have it both ways!
>
>
No-one is asking for it both ways...

Competition increases innovation and efficiency... Compare the history 
of Mac pricing and PC pricing.. The APPLE model was to control the 
product from cradle to grave.. The PC Model was to standardize specs and 
allow competition..  Generally, the PC has driven innovation and 
technology..

[Keith]
 
 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] OEM Ink Pricing & Tactics Investigated by EU Anti-Trust Commissioner

2002-05-23 by Lloyd O'Daniel

Bob,
 
Perhaps. Frankly, I'd rather pay a higher honest printer cost up front,
particularly on the Pro models. Just like I don't want "cheap" computers
at the cost of $100 per month software licensing fees. Let's see...offer
a cheap printer to get the customer "hooked" on outrageously expensive
ink. Isn't that a tactic employed in the drug trade?
 
I would expect a wide-format printer to have at least a 5 year service
life. Figuring $5k for a 7500 vs $3k for a 7600 and $112 per ink switch,
that means I can only make that switch less than 4 times per year to
break even. Half that, if you compare the 7000 instead. The alternatives
are to have fewer paper choices, or to live with less than the best
results on matte and watercolor paper. Having paper choice is one big
advantage of using the Epson ink in the first place. As I said, I'm
hopeful that the 2200 won't gouge too much. If not, I'll probably go
that route. I'd rather be able to use all papers and inks than to print
the occasional large print.
 
Every member on this list has "had it both ways" for quite some time. We
have bought "cheap" printers and either put 3rd party color or quadtone
inks into them. We have been subsidized by the poor schmucks like my
friend who has fed his 2000P ink carts like they are popcorn. I don't
suppose you have bought an equivalent amount of Epson ink for all the
B&W inks you have put through yours, have you?
 
Lloyd
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Frost [mailto:bobfrost@...] 
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 4:33 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] OEM Ink Pricing & Tactics Invetigated by EU
Anti-Trust Commissioner


Loyd,

Hang on a minute. If the EU does stop printer manufacturers trying to
make
their customers use their ink, all that will happen is that the prices
of
printers will double or triple. They are not going to continue selling
printers for little or no profit, if they don't get the ink sales. You
can't
have it both ways!

Bob Frost.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lloyd O'Daniel" <lodaniel@...>
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] OEM Ink Pricing & Tactics Invetigated by EU
Anti-Trust Commissioner


This is good news. Perhaps it will discourage Epson from extending this
sculduggery to the large-format printers, and curtail it with the small
ones.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] OEM Ink Pricing & Tactics Investigated by EU Anti-Trust Commissioner

2002-05-23 by Jean-Michel Paris

Given the current rapid evolution of inkjet technology and the 
resulting parade of new printer models, I hope the EU Anti-Trust 
Commissioners take a long long time coming to a decision in this 
matter.
I would hesitate to spend substantially more money on equipment 
destined to becomes obsolete within a few months. Once the pace of 
change lessens substantially, and only then, would I favor a cost 
transfer from supplies to equipment.

As most members of this list, I feel I have been taking advantage of 
the prevailing situation by using a CIS on my printer. I suspect CIS 
users are a tiny part of the market and will remain so as long as the 
price of CIS systems are a relatively expensive add-on to cheap 
printers and as long as it takes considerable efforts to acquire the 
information needed to feel confortable with the acquisition of a CIS 
and a set of inks.

After all we may still enjoy the present situation for a good while...

Jean-Michel Paris
-- 
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Jean-Michel Paris 
<jmparis@...>
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

OEM Ink Pricing & Econ 101

2002-05-24 by johnny999_99

Lets step back a second here.  When someone is contemplating the 
purchase of a printer, they should consider the total costs of 
ownership, including replacement cartridges.  If people don't 
investigate, then that's their problem.  

The only real question here is whether or not the major suppliers are 
colluding among themselves to maintain high cartidge prices.  I find 
it very hard to believe that HP, Lexmark, Epson and Canon got into a 
room and set printer and cartridge pricing.  Absent this, we have no 
complaint.  High prices attract entry, so we have seen explosive 
growth in the 3rd party replacement sector.  

Personally, I think that it is quite amazing how far one's dollar 
goes in the field of inkjets.  Meddling by the ill-informed 
conspiracy theorist can only disrupt a market that provides wonderful 
products at great prices.

Re: [Digital BW] OEM Ink Pricing & Econ 101

2002-05-24 by Simon Whitehead

Surely the best way to hold down the prices of consumables is by competition
and, as far as I can see, this site pursues that approach rather well.

Now, I am in the UK and 3rd party 'quality' inks are not available on the
high street.  We can't get Lyson or MIS all that easily and when we do find
them we are charged, at the very least, pound for dollar.  So, the best way
to knock down the Epson prices might be to try to get the quality inks into
the high street so that the competition is both real and visible.

Then we would see the difference - I think.
-- 
Simon Whitehead
s.whitehead@...

Re: [Digital BW] OEM Ink Pricing & Econ 101

2002-05-24 by johnny999_99

Hello Simon,

Is there some sort of import restriction?  Could be a nice side 
business for you. ;-)

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Simon Whitehead 
<s.whitehead@i...> wrote:
> Surely the best way to hold down the prices of consumables is by 
competition
> and, as far as I can see, this site pursues that approach rather 
well.
> 
> Now, I am in the UK and 3rd party 'quality' inks are not available 
on the
> high street.  We can't get Lyson or MIS all that easily and when we 
do find
> them we are charged, at the very least, pound for dollar.  So, the 
best way
> to knock down the Epson prices might be to try to get the quality 
inks into
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> the high street so that the competition is both real and visible.
> 
> Then we would see the difference - I think.
> -- 
> Simon Whitehead
> s.whitehead@i...

RE: [Digital BW] OEM Ink Pricing & Econ 101

2002-05-24 by William Cobb

'high street' ??????
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Simon Whitehead [mailto:s.whitehead@...]
  Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 2:43 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] OEM Ink Pricing & Econ 101


  Surely the best way to hold down the prices of consumables is by
competition
  and, as far as I can see, this site pursues that approach rather well.

  Now, I am in the UK and 3rd party 'quality' inks are not available on the
  high street.  We can't get Lyson or MIS all that easily and when we do
find
  them we are charged, at the very least, pound for dollar.  So, the best
way
  to knock down the Epson prices might be to try to get the quality inks
into
  the high street so that the competition is both real and visible.

  Then we would see the difference - I think.
  --
  Simon Whitehead
  s.whitehead@...



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re[2]: [Digital BW] OEM Ink Pricing & Econ 101

2002-05-24 by Richard Sintchak

Friday, May 24, 2002, 3:14:40 PM, William Cobb wrote:

WC> 'high street' ??????


British term for "downtown" or "Main Street" as when you buy from a
retail store.

Best regards,
 Richard  

mailto:richard@...

RE: Re[2]: [Digital BW] OEM Ink Pricing & Econ 101

2002-05-25 by William Cobb

OIC ...  those items are not available to most of us in the USA  other than
via web/mail order either.
'A4' is the only generally available paper size in my area ... if I drive
100 miles I can then purchase up to 'A3+' ... I guess our shipping times are
a little shorter though.

BC
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Richard Sintchak [mailto:richard@...]
  Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 4:17 PM
  To: William Cobb
  Subject: Re[2]: [Digital BW] OEM Ink Pricing & Econ 101


  Friday, May 24, 2002, 3:14:40 PM, William Cobb wrote:

  WC> 'high street' ??????


  British term for "downtown" or "Main Street" as when you buy from a
  retail store.

  Best regards,
  Richard

  mailto:richard@...


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] OEM Ink Pricing & Econ 101

2002-05-26 by Nij

Simon,

Why can't you get lyson inks that easily? As far as I know, they are freely
available in the UK through a number of resellers, unless you want bulk in
which case there are restrictions but Marrutt can do it. Lyson is after all
a UK company!

As for MIS inks... what's wrong with PermaJet's rebranding them? [eh he he
he] They're 'freely available' in limited areas on the highstreet too.

What about Jet-Tec? They do dye and pigment 'copy' inks and carts etc... and
exist with several other brands in the 'cheap copy' market that do appear in
the 'office supply' shops in the highstreet.

...well other than than that ALL of these options include at least two extra
levels of mark-up to allow the distributor and retailer to get their cut. In
the case of a non-specialist retailer there will almost always be an extra
distributor in the chain. e.g. PJ's pricing appears to indicate a mark up
that allows for resale to places as far afield as Australia whilst still
allowing everyone a tasty slice of the pie. Hence, what starts life as a
reasonably priced product becomes... make your own mind up ;)

So to want quality competition that has as much penetration as Epson / HP /
Canon brand actually requires a massively cheap product that still has all
the necessary packaging etc etc. (and you would be surprised just how much
their pricing is biased by the RRP of the product they are copying...
markups will be BETTER for a retailer on the 'cheap copy' in some / many
cases!?).

Of course, if I was to mention an alternative UK resource for inks, then
maybe I would suggest a click on the link below...

Best,
Nij

Nigel Rheam
MWORDS Limited   www.mwords.co.uk   Digital Fine Art
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Simon Whitehead [mailto:s.whitehead@...]
> Sent: 24 May 2002 21:43
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] OEM Ink Pricing & Econ 101
>
>
> Surely the best way to hold down the prices of consumables is by
> competition
> and, as far as I can see, this site pursues that approach rather well.
>
> Now, I am in the UK and 3rd party 'quality' inks are not available on the
> high street.  We can't get Lyson or MIS all that easily and when
> we do find
> them we are charged, at the very least, pound for dollar.  So,
> the best way
> to knock down the Epson prices might be to try to get the quality
> inks into
> the high street so that the competition is both real and visible.
>
> Then we would see the difference - I think.
> --
> Simon Whitehead
> s.whitehead@...

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