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2002-06-26 by Jerry Olson
Paul, Has MIS changed its formula, or added a new black? What's the fade rate on it as compared to the generations enhanced black? They have so many inks, one can get really confused with them. Which of the MIS blacks are you speaking of? Or do they only have one dye black? Have you heard anything at all on the inks that the 2200 will be using? Jerry
2002-06-26 by Paul Roark
Jerry, The great black I measured was the MIS DYE black on Epson Photo paper. I don't think it's new. I'm sure it fades quickly -- like all dyes I'm aware of. (The paper advances have helped dyes considerably, apparently.) I now have a dye-based FS/Piezo-compatible inkset in the 1160. On Photo Paper, I'm printing Piezo software prints with blacks measuring 2.17. With the Epson driver and RGB workflow, the blacks are an astounding 2.30 -- better than silver prints, I believe. The RGB curve needs some tweaking, but that will wait until have the FS-Dye formula perfected more. The Piezo prints have almost perfectly even steps already, but I'm just starting this experiment. Paul http://www.PaulRoark.com __________________________________
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Olson [mailto:jerryolson@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 7:47 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] You want deep black? (Jerry - was Piezography
Software & Inks)
Paul, Has MIS changed its formula, or added a new black? What's the
fade rate on it as compared to the generations enhanced black? They have
so many inks, one can get really confused with them. Which of the MIS
blacks are you speaking of? Or do they only have one dye black?
Have you heard anything at all on the inks that the 2200 will be using?
Jerry
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2002-06-26 by Jerry Olson
Paul, Will the FS inks have better blacks than the combination I'm now using in my 1280? (VM inks, Generations enhanced blacks, your cool curve) I'm still hoping for a deeper black than I'm getting. A 2.17 black should be amazing. I can get a deeper black with the backlight film setting, but sometimes this causes too many shadow tones to go to black. (Not always though) . Please let me know if any inkset you are working with has better blacks than the ones I'm now using. Pure neutral tones are fine. They don't have to be cold. Just as long as there isn't even a HINT of brown in them. Jerry Paul Roark wrote:
> > Jerry, > > The great black I measured was the MIS DYE black on Epson Photo paper. I > don't think it's new. I'm sure it fades quickly -- like all dyes I'm aware > of. (The paper advances have helped dyes considerably, apparently.) > > I now have a dye-based FS/Piezo-compatible inkset in the 1160. On Photo > Paper, I'm printing Piezo software prints with blacks measuring 2.17. With > the Epson driver and RGB workflow, the blacks are an astounding 2.30 -- > better than silver prints, I believe. The RGB curve needs some tweaking, > but that will wait until have the FS-Dye formula perfected more. The Piezo > prints have almost perfectly even steps already, but I'm just starting this > experiment. > > Paul > http://www.PaulRoark.com > > __________________________________ > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry Olson [mailto:jerryolson@...] > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 7:47 AM > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] You want deep black? (Jerry - was Piezography > Software & Inks) > > Paul, Has MIS changed its formula, or added a new black? What's the > fade rate on it as compared to the generations enhanced black? They have > so many inks, one can get really confused with them. Which of the MIS > blacks are you speaking of? Or do they only have one dye black? > Have you heard anything at all on the inks that the 2200 will be using? > > Jerry > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and > other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep > them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > "flames." > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various > resources on the homepage. > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames." > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2002-06-26 by Robert G. Morrison
Jerry, you are misunderstanding, Paul is making these inks for gloss papers...its a completely different technology...and will most likely only be archival with a very limited number of polymer swellable gloss papers. There is no dye magic bullet...dyes fade fast when unprotected...and that's that...they will not approach the stability of the pigment systems you are using now on matte fine art papers. Now dyed polymer pigments (which is my guess as to how Cone made the Pieztones better)...that's another story...but not what I think Paul is working on...he's going to compete with Lyson for the BW gloss paper market. Robert
On 6/26/02 1:38 PM, "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...> wrote: > Paul, Will the FS inks have better blacks than the combination I'm now > using in my 1280? (VM inks, Generations enhanced blacks, your cool > curve) I'm still hoping for a deeper black than I'm getting. A 2.17 > black should be amazing. I can get a deeper black with the backlight > film setting, but sometimes this causes too many shadow tones to go to > black. (Not always though) . Please let me know if any inkset you are > working with has better blacks than the ones I'm now using. Pure > neutral tones are fine. They don't have to be cold. Just as long as > there isn't even a HINT of brown in them. > > Jerry > > Paul Roark wrote: >> >> Jerry, >> >> The great black I measured was the MIS DYE black on Epson Photo paper. I >> don't think it's new. I'm sure it fades quickly -- like all dyes I'm aware >> of. (The paper advances have helped dyes considerably, apparently.) >> >> I now have a dye-based FS/Piezo-compatible inkset in the 1160. On Photo >> Paper, I'm printing Piezo software prints with blacks measuring 2.17. With >> the Epson driver and RGB workflow, the blacks are an astounding 2.30 -- >> better than silver prints, I believe. The RGB curve needs some tweaking, >> but that will wait until have the FS-Dye formula perfected more. The Piezo >> prints have almost perfectly even steps already, but I'm just starting this >> experiment. >> >> Paul >> http://www.PaulRoark.com >> >> __________________________________ >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jerry Olson [mailto:jerryolson@...] >> Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 7:47 AM >> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] You want deep black? (Jerry - was Piezography >> Software & Inks) >> >> Paul, Has MIS changed its formula, or added a new black? What's the >> fade rate on it as compared to the generations enhanced black? They have >> so many inks, one can get really confused with them. Which of the MIS >> blacks are you speaking of? Or do they only have one dye black? >> Have you heard anything at all on the inks that the 2200 will be using? >> >> Jerry >> >> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >> ADVERTISEMENT >> >> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and >> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint >> >> Please follow these basic guidelines: >> - Include your full name with your message. >> - Include the address of your website, if you have one. >> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep >> them short. >> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. >> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or >> "flames." >> - Complete your Yahoo profile. >> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various >> resources on the homepage. >> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and >> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint >> >> Please follow these basic guidelines: >> - Include your full name with your message. >> - Include the address of your website, if you have one. >> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep >> them short. >> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. >> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or >> "flames." >> - Complete your Yahoo profile. >> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various >> resources on the homepage. >> >> >> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other > resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep > them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > "flames." > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various > resources on the homepage. > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >
2002-06-26 by Paul Roark
Jerry, I really don't recommend the dye-based FS I mixed. It is a curiosity, but you'll probably have rapid fading and warming -- it's untested but pure dye. I'm really only doing this for the internegative possibilities. Surprisingly, the MIS dye K is rather cool -- too cool for my tastes. It is especially cool on Photo Rag, which seems to exaggerate colors compared to EAM. I think the Gen enhanced K is the one to stick with for more blackness than the VM K. After that the fading and warming gets to a point where you might notice it. Paul _________________________
-----Original Message----- From: Jerry Olson [mailto:jerryolson@...] Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 12:38 PM To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Digital BW] You want deep black? (Jerry - was Piezography Software & Inks) Paul, Will the FS inks have better blacks than the combination I'm now using in my 1280? (VM inks, Generations enhanced blacks, your cool curve) I'm still hoping for a deeper black than I'm getting. A 2.17 black should be amazing. I can get a deeper black with the backlight film setting, but sometimes this causes too many shadow tones to go to black. (Not always though) . Please let me know if any inkset you are working with has better blacks than the ones I'm now using. Pure neutral tones are fine. They don't have to be cold. Just as long as there isn't even a HINT of brown in them. Jerry Paul Roark wrote: > > Jerry, > > The great black I measured was the MIS DYE black on Epson Photo paper. I > don't think it's new. I'm sure it fades quickly -- like all dyes I'm aware > of. (The paper advances have helped dyes considerably, apparently.) > > I now have a dye-based FS/Piezo-compatible inkset in the 1160. On Photo > Paper, I'm printing Piezo software prints with blacks measuring 2.17. With > the Epson driver and RGB workflow, the blacks are an astounding 2.30 -- > better than silver prints, I believe. The RGB curve needs some tweaking, > but that will wait until have the FS-Dye formula perfected more. The Piezo > prints have almost perfectly even steps already, but I'm just starting this > experiment. > > Paul > http://www.PaulRoark.com > > __________________________________ > -----Original Message----- > From: Jerry Olson [mailto:jerryolson@...] > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 7:47 AM > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] You want deep black? (Jerry - was Piezography > Software & Inks) > > Paul, Has MIS changed its formula, or added a new black? What's the > fade rate on it as compared to the generations enhanced black? They have > so many inks, one can get really confused with them. Which of the MIS > blacks are you speaking of? Or do they only have one dye black? > Have you heard anything at all on the inks that the 2200 will be using? > > Jerry > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and > other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep > them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > "flames." > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various > resources on the homepage. > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames." > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint Please follow these basic guidelines: - Include your full name with your message. - Include the address of your website, if you have one. - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames." - Complete your Yahoo profile. - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]