Digital BW, The Print

Stephen,

You wrote:

>Have you tried your MIS dye mix with Pictoro media,
>especially the transparent media. Some of us are still
>looking for the holy grail for digital negative making.

Yes, and the ink densities that work on paper don't work well on the film.
I've increased the midtone ink densities so that the steps in the ramp are
close, but there appears to be non-linear absorption compared to the
pigmented inks.  I'm not sure without a separate profile that I'm going to
be able to tame the combination.  (Since I'm about to take off for a week, I
probably won't have more information for a while.)

>I suspect the 2880 printers will have a slight advantage if you wish >to
print on silver.

I only wanted to tame the Piezo driver due to my hope that I'd be able to
use it with the 3000.  I suspect the 3000 and the Epson driver won't cut it
for the silver prints.


 >...with pictoro, the pizza wheel marks really showed through.

Yes, they do.  They may need removing.

I'm not sure this is an approach that is work pursuing.  I'll probably put
in a little more effort, but I'd say it's a less-than-even chance of
success.

Paul

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" <
paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Stephen,
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> >Have you tried your MIS dye mix with Pictoro media,
> >especially the transparent media. Some of us are still
> >looking for the holy grail for digital negative making.
> 
> Yes, and the ink densities that work on paper don't work well 
on the film.
> I've increased the midtone ink densities so that the steps in 
the ramp are
> close, but there appears to be non-linear absorption 
compared to the
> pigmented inks.  I'm not sure without a separate profile that I'm 
going to
> be able to tame the combination.  (Since I'm about to take off 
for a week, I
> probably won't have more information for a while.)
> 
> >I suspect the 2880 printers will have a slight advantage if you 

Paul,

I have been getting very nice results utilizing Burkholders Curve 
for the 1280 and tweeking it a bit. On Pictorico film and Epson 
dye, my silver prints are visually indestinguishable from the 
enlarged negative prints. Except of course, all of the 
manipulations are already complete on the digital negative.

I am now working on silver and platinum curves for my  Epson 
10000.  The platinum prints are stunning.  Yesterday I made a 
17"x22" platinum negative on Pictorico film. Pictorico has just 
released a the film in a 24" roll size. 

The 1280 negatives look very close to the 10000. The curves are 
a bit different, but the results are very close.  I am very excited 
about the results I have been getting. No more building enlarged 
negatives to meet the contrast requirements of platinum.

Mike

Well, I'm psyched.

I just made a pictorico negative with a C80 printer I bought off of Epay
last week for printing snapshots for my wife. It's a 4 color pigment desktop
size, there are a bunch getting dumped on ebay at about $100 each, new in
the box along with $45 worth of ink that comes with.

Both of my biggest problems with previous negative making attempts appear to
be gone.

Apparently the 2880 dpi is a major improvement over the 1160 I was using
when your printing on zero dot gain material like the pictorico OHP.
Artifacts are way down in the mud with this printer.

Most of all, the curve I need to apply to straighten out the density's on
the pictorico is very, very tame compared to what I was doing with the Epson
dye and peizo inks. This is a biggee, the old curve took such a wild swing
at the dense end I found it almost impossible to avoid posterization in the
light tones of the resulting print. This curve is so reasonable compared to
that.

I'm able to get a 1.3 density max (densitometer) with these inks, and just
made a P.O.P. Zia print on Rives BFK (treated with Stuart Melvins oxalic
acid coat), I overexposed this print, but it looks like I may be able to get
a full range of tones for this process that takes a good 1.8 or so density
units, this may be due to a difference in opacity between  u.v. and visible
light for these inks. The jury's still out on this one, but worse case I may
need to go to more contrasty ingredients for my coatings.

So Mike, thanks for the kick in the pants your note provided. I'd really
like to see how your 1280 and 10000 curves look.

Does anyone know which wide carriage model the C80 is akin to?

Larry

-----Original Message-----
From: mkravit [mailto:mjkaia@...]
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2002 1:35 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] For Paul: Digital Silver / Platinum


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" <
paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Stephen,
>
> You wrote:
>
> >Have you tried your MIS dye mix with Pictoro media,
> >especially the transparent media. Some of us are still
> >looking for the holy grail for digital negative making.
>
> Yes, and the ink densities that work on paper don't work well
on the film.
> I've increased the midtone ink densities so that the steps in
the ramp are
> close, but there appears to be non-linear absorption
compared to the
> pigmented inks.  I'm not sure without a separate profile that I'm
going to
> be able to tame the combination.  (Since I'm about to take off
for a week, I
> probably won't have more information for a while.)
>
> >I suspect the 2880 printers will have a slight advantage if you

Paul,

I have been getting very nice results utilizing Burkholders Curve
for the 1280 and tweeking it a bit. On Pictorico film and Epson
dye, my silver prints are visually indestinguishable from the
enlarged negative prints. Except of course, all of the
manipulations are already complete on the digital negative.

I am now working on silver and platinum curves for my  Epson
10000.  The platinum prints are stunning.  Yesterday I made a
17"x22" platinum negative on Pictorico film. Pictorico has just
released a the film in a 24" roll size.

The 1280 negatives look very close to the 10000. The curves are
a bit different, but the results are very close.  I am very excited
about the results I have been getting. No more building enlarged
negatives to meet the contrast requirements of platinum.

Mike



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Larry,

I am using the color fill method of making my digital platinum 
negatives.  After applying the curve and converting to RGB I color 
fill the image with a 0,55,55,0 color. This  color acts to hold back 
the UV light of my vacuum frame/UV Exposure unit thereby 
increasing the density of the negative. I have found that the 
Epson dye in the 10000 does a terrific job. Sky areas are smooth 
and show no sign of mottling.

I am only in the very early throws of this process and by no 
means pretend to have the system ready for exhibition printing.

Mike


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Larry Roohr" <
lrryr@a...> wrote:
> Well, I'm psyched.
> 
> I just made a pictorico negative with a C80 printer I bought off 
of Epay
> last week for printing snapshots for my wife. It's a 4 color 
pigment desktop
> size, there are a bunch getting dumped on ebay at about $100 
each, new in
> the box along with $45 worth of ink that comes with.
> 
> Both of my biggest problems with previous negative making 
attempts appear to
> be gone.
> 
> Apparently the 2880 dpi is a major improvement over the 1160 
I was using
> when your printing on zero dot gain material like the pictorico 
OHP.
> Artifacts are way down in the mud with this printer.
> 
> Most of all, the curve I need to apply to straighten out the 
density's on
> the pictorico is very, very tame compared to what I was doing 
with the Epson
> dye and peizo inks. This is a biggee, the old curve took such a 
wild swing
> at the dense end I found it almost impossible to avoid 
posterization in the
> light tones of the resulting print. This curve is so reasonable 
compared to
> that.
> 
> I'm able to get a 1.3 density max (densitometer) with these 
inks, and just
> made a P.O.P. Zia print on Rives BFK (treated with Stuart 
Melvins oxalic
> acid coat), I overexposed this print, but it looks like I may be 
able to get
> a full range of tones for this process that takes a good 1.8 or 
so density
> units, this may be due to a difference in opacity between  u.v. 
and visible
> light for these inks. The jury's still out on this one, but worse 
case I may
> need to go to more contrasty ingredients for my coatings.
> 
> So Mike, thanks for the kick in the pants your note provided. I'd 
really
> like to see how your 1280 and 10000 curves look.
> 
> Does anyone know which wide carriage model the C80 is akin 
to?
> 
> Larry
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mkravit [mailto:mjkaia@k...]
> Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2002 1:35 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
> Subject: [Digital BW] For Paul: Digital Silver / Platinum
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" <
> paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > Stephen,
> >
> > You wrote:
> >
> > >Have you tried your MIS dye mix with Pictoro media,
> > >especially the transparent media. Some of us are still
> > >looking for the holy grail for digital negative making.
> >
> > Yes, and the ink densities that work on paper don't work well
> on the film.
> > I've increased the midtone ink densities so that the steps in
> the ramp are
> > close, but there appears to be non-linear absorption
> compared to the
> > pigmented inks.  I'm not sure without a separate profile that 
I'm
> going to
> > be able to tame the combination.  (Since I'm about to take off
> for a week, I
> > probably won't have more information for a while.)
> >
> > >I suspect the 2880 printers will have a slight advantage if 
you
> 
> Paul,
> 
> I have been getting very nice results utilizing Burkholders 
Curve
> for the 1280 and tweeking it a bit. On Pictorico film and Epson
> dye, my silver prints are visually indestinguishable from the
> enlarged negative prints. Except of course, all of the
> manipulations are already complete on the digital negative.
> 
> I am now working on silver and platinum curves for my  Epson
> 10000.  The platinum prints are stunning.  Yesterday I made a
> 17"x22" platinum negative on Pictorico film. Pictorico has just
> released a the film in a 24" roll size.
> 
> The 1280 negatives look very close to the 10000. The curves 
are
> a bit different, but the results are very close.  I am very excited
> about the results I have been getting. No more building 
enlarged
> negatives to meet the contrast requirements of platinum.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, 
Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is 
at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the 
subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
or
> "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and 
the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/
info/terms/