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[Digital BW] Somerset Velvet...am I missing something here?

[Digital BW] Somerset Velvet...am I missing something here?

2002-07-10 by Paul Roark

Jamie,

You wrote:

>Something possessed me to try out ... [uncoated] Somerset Velvet.
>...
> I have ended up with flat, blotchy, and bizarre-cold hued
>prints, even though the VM curve was warm.

>Am I missing something ...

No, I think Somerset Velvet is terrible paper.  As best I can tell, it was
considered good for the older inkjets only because it's low contrast hid the
defects.  It does fade and warm less, but with images as bad as I get from
my printers on SV, it's a moot point.

I'd recommend sticking with the coated papers.  I mostly use EAM.  Other
papers I'd recommend are the Hahnemuhle papers (great blacks -- the only
ones I've tested that are better than EAM -- by about 2%) and Brightcube
Eclipse Satine (acid free and the only coated paper I've fade tested that is
a hair better than EAM).

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Somerset Velvet...am I missing something here?

2002-07-10 by Sam A. McCandless

>[snip] I'd recommend sticking with the coated papers.  I mostly use 
>EAM.  Other
>papers I'd recommend are the Hahnemuhle papers (great blacks -- the only
>ones I've tested that are better than EAM -- by about 2%) and Brightcube
>Eclipse Satine (acid free and the only coated paper I've fade tested that is
>a hair better than EAM).
>
>Paul
>http://www.PaulRoark.com

But not Crane's Museo? I thought it was a good, if expensive, 
companion for EAM and one which is both acid-free and free of optical 
brightners? It also seems to me a nice thickness and weight for the 
printers without a straight-through paper path.

Sam McCandless             samcc@...

RE: [Digital BW] Somerset Velvet...am I missing something here?

2002-07-10 by Paul Roark

Sam,

I gave up on Museo.  I just get too much blotchiness, and the blacks are
weak.  I think for the ultimate in long term storage, where a customer
insists on an acid-free, cotton paper, Eclipse Satine is a better way to go.
I'll probably start testing and profiling the "soft white" that lacks the
optical brighteners for my museum, archival copying work.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com


__________________________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Sam A. McCandless [mailto:samcc@...]
  Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 6:19 AM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Somerset Velvet...am I missing something here?


  >[snip] I'd recommend sticking with the coated papers.  I mostly use
  >EAM.  Other
  >papers I'd recommend are the Hahnemuhle papers (great blacks -- the only
  >ones I've tested that are better than EAM -- by about 2%) and Brightcube
  >Eclipse Satine (acid free and the only coated paper I've fade tested that
is
  >a hair better than EAM).
  >
  >Paul
  >http://www.PaulRoark.com

  But not Crane's Museo? I thought it was a good, if expensive,
  companion for EAM and one which is both acid-free and free of optical
  brightners? It also seems to me a nice thickness and weight for the
  printers without a straight-through paper path.

  Sam McCandless             samcc@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Somerset Velvet...am I missing something here?

2002-07-11 by Sam A. McCandless

Thanks Paul. I knew there was a blotch problem w/Museo but didn't 
realize it was that bad.

Is it also that bad with the Media Street color ink set you use 
(Gen3?) too or just with quad tones?

Do you need a distinct (from EAM) set of curves for Eclipse Satine 
and for the Hahnemuhle PhotoRags or just adjust the sliders or what? 
I'm using Sepia-Neutral or Gen4 on 1160s if that matters. And on the 
old photos for which I use Sepia-Neutral, the blacks seem never to be 
very black, if that matters. Maybe that's why I haven't noticed the 
blotchiness. But of course some old photos are themselves blotchy.

Thanks.

Sam
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>Sam,
>
>I gave up on Museo.  I just get too much blotchiness, and the blacks are
>weak.  I think for the ultimate in long term storage, where a customer
>insists on an acid-free, cotton paper, Eclipse Satine is a better way to go.
>I'll probably start testing and profiling the "soft white" that lacks the
>optical brighteners for my museum, archival copying work.
>
>Paul
>http://www.PaulRoark.com

RE: [Digital BW] Somerset Velvet...am I missing something here?

2002-07-11 by Paul Roark

Sam,

You wrote:

>I knew there was a blotch problem w/Museo but didn't
>realize it was that bad.

>Is it also that bad with the Media Street color ink set you use
>(Gen3?) too or just with quad tones?

I don't know.  I haven't printed any Gen 3 lately, as that was the CIS that
killed my 1160.  (This is not a reflection on Gen 3 but on old CIS's.)  I'll
probably try a color inkset that includes the tougher yellow and the VM
black for my next (filled-cart) color inkset.

>Do you need a distinct (from EAM) set of curves for Eclipse Satine

I confess I've not done enough with this paper to say.  I had some samples
and tested them, and have never gotten around to buying more.  An expected
museum preservation job will change that.

>and for the Hahnemuhle PhotoRags

I have some samples for others that look excellent with the default EAM
profile.

>I'm using Sepia-Neutral or Gen4 on 1160s if that matters. And on the
>old photos for which I use Sepia-Neutral, the blacks seem never to be
>very black, if that matters.

That is one of the reasons I don't like Museo.  The blacks are weak.  But,
they are also weak on Eclipse Satine (and they faded fast on the only
Hahnemuhle paper I tested).

I sure wish there were a way to do accelerated paper testing (as opposed to
image fading).  Truth is, we just don't know whether these other papers will
really last longer than EAM or not.  For my own family photos, I just use
EAM.  But for museums or others, I'm more comfortable saying the paper is
"acid-free" cotton/rag, as opposed to "lignin-free" wood pulp (EAM), even
though the later can be archival.

> Maybe that's why I haven't noticed the
>blotchiness. But of course some old photos are themselves blotchy.

True.  Their blacks usually were not that great either.  My experience is
that the digital reproductions make the old photos look almost too good to
be believable as old photos.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Somerset Velvet...am I missing something here?

2002-07-11 by Robert Morrison

All blotching is gone with the Piezotones...I'm getting fantastic prints
with Museo with dmax in the low 1.7's.  Better dmax than Eclipse Satine
Softwhite (around 1.65)...but Satine is nice because you have the texture
choice.  I'm using imageprint...but I believe the piezo driver also works
well with Museo and Piezotones.

Robert
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 7/11/02 6:35 AM, "Sam A. McCandless" <samcc@...> wrote:

> Thanks Paul. I knew there was a blotch problem w/Museo but didn't
> realize it was that bad.
> 
> Is it also that bad with the Media Street color ink set you use
> (Gen3?) too or just with quad tones?
> 
> Do you need a distinct (from EAM) set of curves for Eclipse Satine
> and for the Hahnemuhle PhotoRags or just adjust the sliders or what?
> I'm using Sepia-Neutral or Gen4 on 1160s if that matters. And on the
> old photos for which I use Sepia-Neutral, the blacks seem never to be
> very black, if that matters. Maybe that's why I haven't noticed the
> blotchiness. But of course some old photos are themselves blotchy.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Sam
> 
> 
>> Sam,
>> 
>> I gave up on Museo.  I just get too much blotchiness, and the blacks are
>> weak.  I think for the ultimate in long term storage, where a customer
>> insists on an acid-free, cotton paper, Eclipse Satine is a better way to go.
>> I'll probably start testing and profiling the "soft white" that lacks the
>> optical brighteners for my museum, archival copying work.
>> 
>> Paul
>> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>

RE: [Digital BW] Somerset Velvet...am I missing something here?

2002-07-11 by Sam A. McCandless

Thanks again, Paul, especially for the good news about the prints 
made on Hahnemuhle PhotoRag with the EAM curves looking good. I like 
the look and feel of those papers, and for some purposes I'm 
intrigued by their coated-both-sides "Duo".

If you conveniently can, I hope you'll post some as you go along 
about the details of your expected preservation project.

Sam
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>Sam,
>
>You wrote:
>
> >I knew there was a blotch problem w/Museo but didn't
> >realize it was that bad.
>
> >Is it also that bad with the Media Street color ink set you use
> >(Gen3?) too or just with quad tones?
>
>I don't know.  I haven't printed any Gen 3 lately, as that was the CIS that
>killed my 1160.  (This is not a reflection on Gen 3 but on old CIS's.)  I'll
>probably try a color inkset that includes the tougher yellow and the VM
>black for my next (filled-cart) color inkset.
>
> >Do you need a distinct (from EAM) set of curves for Eclipse Satine
>
>I confess I've not done enough with this paper to say.  I had some samples
>and tested them, and have never gotten around to buying more.  An expected
>museum preservation job will change that.
>
> >and for the Hahnemuhle PhotoRags
>
>I have some samples for others that look excellent with the default EAM
>profile.
>
> >I'm using Sepia-Neutral or Gen4 on 1160s if that matters. And on the
> >old photos for which I use Sepia-Neutral, the blacks seem never to be
> >very black, if that matters.
>
>That is one of the reasons I don't like Museo.  The blacks are weak.  But,
>they are also weak on Eclipse Satine (and they faded fast on the only
>Hahnemuhle paper I tested).
>
>I sure wish there were a way to do accelerated paper testing (as opposed to
>image fading).  Truth is, we just don't know whether these other papers will
>really last longer than EAM or not.  For my own family photos, I just use
>EAM.  But for museums or others, I'm more comfortable saying the paper is
>"acid-free" cotton/rag, as opposed to "lignin-free" wood pulp (EAM), even
>though the later can be archival.
>
> > Maybe that's why I haven't noticed the
> >blotchiness. But of course some old photos are themselves blotchy.
>
>True.  Their blacks usually were not that great either.  My experience is
>that the digital reproductions make the old photos look almost too good to
>be believable as old photos.
>
>Paul
>http://www.PaulRoark.com
>
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls 
>and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>Please follow these basic guidelines:
>- Include your full name with your message.
>- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
>to keep them short.
>- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
>"flames."
>- Complete your Yahoo profile.
>- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
>various resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

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