Digital BW, The Print

Ben:
We scan a great deal of film from 35mm to 4x5 each day. While dust will always be a problem (although I am delighted with the Ice3 on the Nikon 4k) scratches are a no-no. 
I am not familiar with your scanner I have a few points that may help:
1. Check the film carrier carefully for sharp places that may cause the scratch. A good technique is wiping a piece of panty hose over all surfaces of the carrier and scanner that come in contact with the film. If a problem exists, the panty hose will catch.
2. Are the scratches base side or emulsion side? This may isolate the cause.
3. Silly question. Is it possible that the scratches were on the film pre-scan? Look at some never-scanned film with fairly powerful loupe (like a 15x peak).

Hope this helps

Stan Shire
Associate Professor / Dept Chair
Department of Photographic Imaging
Community College of Philadelphia
Adobe Photoshop 6 A.C.E.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: tynmansystems@... 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 3:32 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Film scanning and scratches


  I tried to find a group that is focused on film scanning, but 
  couldn't find one; hope this isn't too far off topic for this group.

  Over the past two year, I have been scanning 35mm negative film (both 
  color and B&W) using a Canon 2710 film scanner. I notice that I spend 
  a tremendous amount of time retouching film scratches on over half of 
  the images that I have scanned. These are very fine scratches on the 
  film base, that would typically not be visible in an enlargement made 
  in an enlarger, but which are very visible when scanned and enlarged 
  in Photoshop.

  My question is: is there something inherent in film scanners that 
  magnifies film scratches? I have seen the dust and scratch removal 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I tried to find a group that is focused on film scanning,

There is a Yahoo group: the name is: 'scanHi-End'  They will be able to answer your question the most
authoritatively.  We just joined the group and they seem like a nice bunch of people...Some of the same people
that are in this group.

> Over the past two year, I have been scanning 35mm negative film (both
> color and B&W) using a Canon 2710 film scanner. I notice that I spend
> a tremendous amount of time retouching film scratches on over half of
> the images that I have scanned. These are very fine scratches on the
> film base, that would typically not be visible in an enlargement made
> in an enlarger, but which are very visible when scanned and enlarged
> in Photoshop.
>
> My question is: is there something inherent in film scanners that
> magnifies film scratches? I have seen the dust and scratch removal
> software (e.g. Nikon's Ice software) touted in scanner
> advertisements, but assumed these would be necessary only for old,
> mis-handled, damaged film. Is this scratch magnification an attribute
> of film scanning that we just don't talk about in public, or is it
> just me?

It's not just you.  I think there are software fixes for scratches and dust...but mostly in better scanners
(read more expensive), I don't know if they can be used with your Cannon.

We spend a lot of time 'spotting' as well.  :- (

Harvey Ferdschneider
partner, SKID Photography, NYC


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

on 8/28/01 4:56 PM, SKID Photography at skid@... wrote:

>> I tried to find a group that is focused on film scanning,
> 
> There is a Yahoo group: the name is: 'scanHi-End'  They will be able to answer
> your question the most
> authoritatively.  We just joined the group and they seem like a nice bunch of
> people...Some of the same people
> that are in this group.

there is also Tony Sleep's excellent Filmscanner list. Go to

    http://www.halftone.co.uk/

and follow the 'filmscanner' links on the lhs frame

-- 
John Brownlow

http://www.pinkheadedbug.com

ICQ: 109343205

Two suggestions:
1.  (The least helpful, perhaps).  I use a Nikon scanner and find it useful
for dust, but not particularly for scratches.
2.  Just as I did in the darkroom, I wipe nose oil on the back (NOT the
emulsion side) of the negative to remove scratches.  Works like a charm.
Bill






tynmansystems@... on 08/28/2001 03:32:49 PM

Please respond to DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com

To:   DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
cc:

Subject:  [Digital BW] Film scanning and scratches


I tried to find a group that is focused on film scanning, but
couldn't find one; hope this isn't too far off topic for this group.

Over the past two year, I have been scanning 35mm negative film (both
color and B&W) using a Canon 2710 film scanner. I notice that I spend
a tremendous amount of time retouching film scratches on over half of
the images that I have scanned. These are very fine scratches on the
film base, that would typically not be visible in an enlargement made
in an enlarger, but which are very visible when scanned and enlarged
in Photoshop.

My question is: is there something inherent in film scanners that
magnifies film scratches? I have seen the dust and scratch removal
software (e.g. Nikon's Ice software) touted in scanner
advertisements, but assumed these would be necessary only for old,
mis-handled, damaged film. Is this scratch magnification an attribute
of film scanning that we just don't talk about in public, or is it
just me?

Comments?

Thanks, Ben Tyndall.



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint




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Skid,

Thanks for the tip on the scanHi-End group. It does look like another 
very useful group.

...Ben

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., SKID Photography 
<skid@b...> wrote:
> There is a Yahoo group: the name is: 'scanHi-End'  They will be 
able to answer your question the most
> authoritatively.  We just joined the group and they seem like a 
nice bunch of people...Some of the same people
> that are in this group.

Bill,

1. Well of course, I do dream about getting another, bigger (to 
handle larger negatives than 35mm), better (higher resolution) 
scanner...

2. One thing I picked up from quickly scanning through the "scan-Hi 
End" group was that the use of oil on film in flatbed and drum 
scanners is partly to reduce the effect of scratches. I will 
dedfinitely have to try your technique (or some variation -- I'm not 
sure if my nose oil on film would enhance the film's permanance).

Thanks,
Ben

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., wparsons@e... wrote:
> 
> Two suggestions:
> 1.  (The least helpful, perhaps).  I use a Nikon scanner and find 
it useful
> for dust, but not particularly for scratches.
> 2.  Just as I did in the darkroom, I wipe nose oil on the back (NOT 
the
> emulsion side) of the negative to remove scratches.  Works like a 
charm.
> Bill
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tynmansystems@y... on 08/28/2001 03:32:49 PM
> 
> Please respond to DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
> 
> To:   DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
> cc:
> Subject:  [Digital BW] Film scanning and scratches
> 
> 
> I tried to find a group that is focused on film scanning, but
> couldn't find one; hope this isn't too far off topic for this group.
> 
> Over the past two year, I have been scanning 35mm negative film 
(both
> color and B&W) using a Canon 2710 film scanner. I notice that I 
spend
> a tremendous amount of time retouching film scratches on over half 
of
> the images that I have scanned. These are very fine scratches on the
> film base, that would typically not be visible in an enlargement 
made
> in an enlarger, but which are very visible when scanned and enlarged
> in Photoshop.
> 
> My question is: is there something inherent in film scanners that
> magnifies film scratches? I have seen the dust and scratch removal
> software (e.g. Nikon's Ice software) touted in scanner
> advertisements, but assumed these would be necessary only for old,
> mis-handled, damaged film. Is this scratch magnification an 
attribute
> of film scanning that we just don't talk about in public, or is it
> just me?
> 
> Comments?
> 
> Thanks, Ben Tyndall.
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Ben,
I've been rubbing nose oil on negs for more than 30 years now with no
adverse consequences.  It's on the stock side and doesn't touch the
emulsion.  However, if you're nervous about it, use a soft cloth to remove
it after the scan is done.  When you're rubbing the negative strip, place
it on a clean surface (like the negative strip holder), rub gently, and
don't cause the strip to slide around.
Bill





tynmansystems@... on 08/29/2001 11:54:48 AM

Please respond to DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com

To:   DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
cc:

Subject:  Re: [Digital BW] Film scanning and scratches


Bill,

1. Well of course, I do dream about getting another, bigger (to
handle larger negatives than 35mm), better (higher resolution)
scanner...

2. One thing I picked up from quickly scanning through the "scan-Hi
End" group was that the use of oil on film in flatbed and drum
scanners is partly to reduce the effect of scratches. I will
dedfinitely have to try your technique (or some variation -- I'm not
sure if my nose oil on film would enhance the film's permanance).

Thanks,
Ben

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., wparsons@e... wrote:
>
> Two suggestions:
> 1.  (The least helpful, perhaps).  I use a Nikon scanner and find
it useful
> for dust, but not particularly for scratches.
> 2.  Just as I did in the darkroom, I wipe nose oil on the back (NOT
the
> emulsion side) of the negative to remove scratches.  Works like a
charm.
> Bill
>
>
>
>
>
>
> tynmansystems@y... on 08/28/2001 03:32:49 PM
>
> Please respond to DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
>
> To:   DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
> cc:
> Subject:  [Digital BW] Film scanning and scratches
>
>
> I tried to find a group that is focused on film scanning, but
> couldn't find one; hope this isn't too far off topic for this group.
>
> Over the past two year, I have been scanning 35mm negative film
(both
> color and B&W) using a Canon 2710 film scanner. I notice that I
spend
> a tremendous amount of time retouching film scratches on over half
of
> the images that I have scanned. These are very fine scratches on the
> film base, that would typically not be visible in an enlargement
made
> in an enlarger, but which are very visible when scanned and enlarged
> in Photoshop.
>
> My question is: is there something inherent in film scanners that
> magnifies film scratches? I have seen the dust and scratch removal
> software (e.g. Nikon's Ice software) touted in scanner
> advertisements, but assumed these would be necessary only for old,
> mis-handled, damaged film. Is this scratch magnification an
attribute
> of film scanning that we just don't talk about in public, or is it
> just me?
>
> Comments?
>
> Thanks, Ben Tyndall.
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks,
Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Nose grease lives!
I've used it forever. I do, however, clean the neg afterward. Not so
much an archioval issue but rather to prevent dust from sticking to the
"greased" area.

Stan

wparsons@... wrote:

>
> Two suggestions:
> 1.  (The least helpful, perhaps).  I use a Nikon scanner and find it
> useful
> for dust, but not particularly for scratches.
> 2.  Just as I did in the darkroom, I wipe nose oil on the back (NOT
> the
> emulsion side) of the negative to remove scratches.  Works like a
> charm.
> Bill
>
>
>
>
>
>
> tynmansystems@... on 08/28/2001 03:32:49 PM
>
> Please respond to DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>
> To:   DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> cc:
> Subject:  [Digital BW] Film scanning and scratches
>
>
> I tried to find a group that is focused on film scanning, but
> couldn't find one; hope this isn't too far off topic for this group.
>
> Over the past two year, I have been scanning 35mm negative film (both
> color and B&W) using a Canon 2710 film scanner. I notice that I spend
> a tremendous amount of time retouching film scratches on over half of
> the images that I have scanned. These are very fine scratches on the
> film base, that would typically not be visible in an enlargement made
> in an enlarger, but which are very visible when scanned and enlarged
> in Photoshop.
>
> My question is: is there something inherent in film scanners that
> magnifies film scratches? I have seen the dust and scratch removal
> software (e.g. Nikon's Ice software) touted in scanner
> advertisements, but assumed these would be necessary only for old,
> mis-handled, damaged film. Is this scratch magnification an attribute
> of film scanning that we just don't talk about in public, or is it
> just me?
>
> Comments?
>
> Thanks, Ben Tyndall.
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
> and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>                    Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls
> and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

"Shire,Stanley" <sshire@...> writes:

> Nose grease lives!
> I've used it forever. I do, however, clean the neg afterward. Not so
> much an archioval issue but rather to prevent dust from sticking to the
> "greased" area.

When I have tried this classic technique, I find the area filled with
particulate dirt afterwards; apparently my nose grease isn't clean
enough. What's the recommended application procedure; just wipe it on
with a finger? Or should something be done to remove excess after
application but before scanning/printing?
-- 
David Dyer-Bennet      /      Welcome to the future!      /      dd-b@...
Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/  
Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/

What a concept!  I'm an expert in nose grease!
David,
I find that a slight swipe on the side of my nose porduces a sheen on the
finger.  This sheen is usually enough to grease the surface of the neg.
The grease 'erases' the scratches.  Wonderful.  I move my finger in a
circular pattern on the STOCK SIDE of the negative.  You may remove the
grease afterward, with a soft cloth, to prevent it from picking up dust.
When I was in the darkroom, I found one nose provided enough grease for a
whole day's printing.  You won't hurt the negative by 'handling' the side
without the emulsion.
Bill





David Dyer-Bennet <dd-b@...> on 08/30/2001 12:42:19 PM

Please respond to DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com

To:   DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
cc:

Subject:  Re: [Digital BW] Film scanning and scratches


"Shire,Stanley" <sshire@...> writes:

> Nose grease lives!
> I've used it forever. I do, however, clean the neg afterward. Not so
> much an archioval issue but rather to prevent dust from sticking to the
> "greased" area.

When I have tried this classic technique, I find the area filled with
particulate dirt afterwards; apparently my nose grease isn't clean
enough. What's the recommended application procedure; just wipe it on
with a finger? Or should something be done to remove excess after
application but before scanning/printing?
--
David Dyer-Bennet      /      Welcome to the future!      /
dd-b@...
Photos: http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/
Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/


Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

David Dyer-Bennet wrote re nose grease . . .

>When I have tried this classic technique, I find the area filled with
>particulate dirt afterwards; apparently my nose grease isn't clean
>enough. What's the recommended application procedure; just wipe it on
>with a finger? Or should something be done to remove excess after
>application but before scanning/printing?

For those with exceptionally dusty noses or whose fastidious nature
recoils at the whole notion of using this technique, Edwal has for
decades made a product called "No-Scratch" for the benefit of these very
folk. It comes in a one-ounce bottle with a brush in the cap, rather like
a fingernail polish bottle. You brush the stuff on the negative--it's
supposed to be self-smoothing--and it functions in the same way as the
more, er, natural alternative. When you're done you wipe it off and
finish up with a bit of negative cleaner. Usually seven or eight US
dollars a bottle.

Daniel Bowdoin