Digital BW, The Print

Andrew, Whats the model number and price of the Imageprint to go with the 7600?
Thanks
David Aschkenas

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., daschkenas@a... wrote:
> Andrew, Whats the model number and price of the Imageprint to go with the 

I think for wide format it's $2500 or so. For the 2200 it's $495. I'm trying to get 
the product on Epson's radar. IF enough people got wind and interest, in 
theory the 2200 price could come way down.

Andrew,

Any chance of getting some 21-step wedges and/or print samples from the new
software?

Martin Wesley

http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html



----- Original Message -----
From: "thedigitaldog" <andrew@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 4:11 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Getting perfect neutral prints from Epson 7600/9600
etc


> Yesterday I spent the day working with the president of ColorByte (they
make
> Image Print), Photographer Greg Gorman and the new version of the software
> that drives the 9600/7600 (and within two weeks) the 2200. Gorman is
trying
> get neutral B&W using all inks (like many of you). We've built custom
profiles
> with the Epson driver but after yesterday, I'm understanding that this
isn't
> necessary and that the huge issues with neutrality are primarily the Epson
> driver.
>
> The prints we made were DEAD NUTS NEUTRAL from the entire tonal range.
> NO metamerism what so ever (ColorByte's special grayscale mode doesn't
> use any yellow ink which is the cause for metamerism). We viewed prints
> under a GretagMacbeth "Judge II" light box which simulates Daylight (D50),
> Tungsten, Cool White Florescent lights etc. The prints were perfectly
neutral.
>
> The dither is superior to Epsons. The dMax was significantly better when
> sending identical data to the printer using Epson driver (with custom
profile)
> verses the canned paper profiles from ColorByte.
>
> We were, needless to say, blown away. We need some profiles from
> ColorByte to see what can be done in color. I've seen output from Image
Print
> to a 7600 at a recent show and they looked awesome. I'd like to wait until
> we've tested color with our own set of tests before commenting further.
But if
> Image Print can print B&W images like this to our Epson's, I can't see why
we
> will not get awesome color.
>
> The smoothness of tones is like butter. Image Print uses 8000 levels of
> screening (Epson we were told uses a few hundred). All this and the print
> times are the same as using the Epson driver.
>
> The issues with neutral prints is no longer an issue! I'm not kidding when
I say
> that looking at output from the old printing methods verses with Image
Print, it
> was like working with a totally new printer. This isn't the 9600 output
Greg and
> I have been testing for the last 5 or 6 months (we did beta on the
printer). The
> quality results are 100% superior to anything we've ever seen.
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
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Andrew,
Please keep us posted on what is happening with the 2200.  I'm sitting here 
with one still in the box because I'm a B&W printer and if I can't get what I 
want out of the printer, it needs to go back.
However, if the cost is another $500....it may have to go back anyway.  Not 
saying the price is wrong for the product (the company deserves to make a 
profit), just saying it is outside my budget.
Billie


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Martin Wesley" <
mwesley250@e...> wrote:
> Andrew,
> 
> Any chance of getting some 21-step wedges and/or print samples from the 
new
> software?

Well I'm taking home a beautiful 30 inch Gorman portrait but I an't sharing <g>

I did get two sample prints of an interior. I'd call the company (they are in 
Florida) and they might send you print samples. As soon as I have the 2200 
driver I'd be happy to print out samples. In fact, FORGET 21 steps, I have 
black to white spectral gradients that are perfect! SMOOTH and gray.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., BMercerTX@a... wrote:
> Andrew,
> Please keep us posted on what is happening with the 2200.  

If all goes well, I'll be printing on my 2200 within 2 weeks. I'll hammer on these 
guys. Small company so they are pretty focused. 

There should be no reason why prints on the 2200 are any less beautiful and 
neutral than what I've been seeing the last two days on the 9600. 

The RIP does far more than just make nice prints. It does packages (you ca 
make custom templetes) and just drag and drop images on top. You never 
need to worry about sizing a file for output; drop an image and drag to the size 
to what you want.

In a message dated 8/18/2002 10:21:11 AM Central Daylight Time, 
andrew@... writes:


> The RIP does far more than just make nice prints. It does packages (you ca 
> make custom templetes) and just drag and drop images on top. You never 
> need to worry about sizing a file for output; drop an image and drag to the 
> size 
> to what you want. 
> 
> 

Yes, I was reading about that on their site.  Sounds like a nice feature but 
for me, not churning out weddings and portraits, it isn't as important as 
overall, consistent print quality in tones that don't split or change under 
different lights.  
Billie


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----

From: "thedigitaldog" <andrew@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 8:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Getting perfect neutral prints from Epson
7600/9600 etc


> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Martin Wesley" <
> mwesley250@e...> wrote:
> > Andrew,
> >
> > Any chance of getting some 21-step wedges and/or print samples from the
> new
> > software?
>
> Well I'm taking home a beautiful 30 inch Gorman portrait but I an't
sharing <g>
>
> I did get two sample prints of an interior. I'd call the company (they are
in
> Florida) and they might send you print samples. As soon as I have the 2200
> driver I'd be happy to print out samples. In fact, FORGET 21 steps, I have
> black to white spectral gradients that are perfect! SMOOTH and gray.

Andrew,

When you get your 2200 going, I would appreciate some 21-step wedges so I
can do some density readings and perhaps get Paul Roark to do a comparative
fade test for us. We have a standard 21-step file that includes a gradient
running parallel to the steps. Let me know when you are in a position to
print and I will send you a copy of the file.

Thanks,
Martin Wesley

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., BMercerTX@a... wrote:

(snip)

> The RIP does far more than just make nice prints. It does packages (you ca
> make custom templetes) and just drag and drop images on top. You never
> need to worry about sizing a file for output; drop an image and drag to
the size
> to what you want.

Andrew,

For those who like to roll there own separation curves, does this RIP give
you independent control of all 7 channels?

Martin Wesley



>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
"flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Martin Wesley" <
mwesley250@e...> wrote:


> When you get your 2200 going, I would appreciate some 21-step wedges 
so I
> can do some density readings and perhaps get Paul Roark to do a 
comparative

Ping me next week. I was told two weeks but maybe I'll get lucky!

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "thedigitaldog" 
> Ping me next week. I was told two weeks but maybe I'll get 
lucky!

Is this the product that you're talking about:

http://www.colorbytesoftware.com/tint.htm

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Martin Wesley" <
mwesley250@e...> wrote:

> For those who like to roll there own separation curves, does this RIP give
> you independent control of all 7 channels?

I'm pretty sure it does. There was one dialog box I saw that dealt with all 7 inks 
and one could input numeric values. No reason for us to do this but it's there.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "marktuckerdotcom" <
mtucker508@y...> wrote:
\> Is this the product that you're talking about:
> 
> http://www.colorbytesoftware.com/tint.htm

Yes. That square to the right is how you can tone any print for B&W. Very, very 
subtle controls (a little goes a little way) which is nice. 

We need to work on the GUI a bit but the product delivers on the output end

In a message dated 8/19/02 7:15:46 PM, darkroom@... writes:

>I don't understand your dMax comment.  The black ink is the blackest you
>can
>get out of the printer...right?  If you printed a patch of the darkest
>black
>using one "driver", and the same image using the other "driver"...how could
>they differ so significantly?  There should be no dithering going on for
>the
>darkest black with either...and it's the same ink...  Have you looked at
>what it's doing under a microscope?

Its often easy enough with a RIP to increase the amount of ink in a black 
mix, resulting in a darker black. Getting a sharp, non bleeding result with 
smooth gradients through the dark tones is always a challenge with heavier 
blacks, but simply laying down more ink is easy. On some media, adding more 
ink may not make the resulting patch darker, on others it may. I'll admit; 
paper white is pretty much a fixed limit... but max black is not.

C. David Tobie
Design Cooperative
CDTobie@...
C. David Tobie
Design Cooperative
CDTobie@...

> >I don't understand your dMax comment.  The black ink is the blackest you
> >can
> >get out of the printer...right?  If you printed a patch of the darkest
> >black
> >using one "driver", and the same image using the other
> "driver"...how could
> >they differ so significantly?  There should be no dithering going on for
> >the
> >darkest black with either...and it's the same ink...  Have you looked at
> >what it's doing under a microscope?
>
> Its often easy enough with a RIP to increase the amount of ink in a black
> mix, resulting in a darker black.

Hi David,

My point is, there should be NO mix with dMax...it should only be using the
one black position for ink, period!  There also should be no dithering.

> Getting a sharp, non bleeding
> result with
> smooth gradients through the dark tones is always a challenge
> with heavier
> blacks, but simply laying down more ink is easy. On some media,
> adding more
> ink may not make the resulting patch darker, on others it may.

Understood, and agreed...but I'm simply, again, talking about black at the
max.

> I'll admit;
> paper white is pretty much a fixed limit... but max black is not.

Well...it depends.  If you change inks, then it should be the ink that
changes the max.  If you have the same ink, just different "software", then,
I believe, there is something wrong with the software if it doesn't use just
black for max black.

Of course, there is an issue with amount of in, on a printer that has that
control.  But, on a printer that puts a fixed ink drop amount/size, this
should not be an issue.

Regards,

Austin

In a message dated 8/19/02 11:21:04 PM, darkroom@... writes:

> My point is, there should be NO mix with dMax...it should only be using the
> one black position for ink, period!  There also should be no dithering.
> 

And with some printers, papers, and inks, black reached dmax at any 
reasonable pattern or dot size... making life simple. But if running that 
sheet of paper through again, and printing a second layer of black ink in the 
same spot makes a patch that is darker than one that is not overprinted, then 
life is not so simple; and various methods of adding ink to the simple max 
black (bigger dots, more dots, a second black ink, or a dark gray ink or mix 
of other inks added, double strike printing, etc...) may increase your dmax.

C. David Tobie
Design Cooperative
CDTobie@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]