Digital BW, The Print

Richard,

That kind of tonal transition is seems to be a tough one for inkjet
printing. I have found the Epson driver is often a better choice in cases
like this. I am afraid I have more questions than answers.

Can you give us some info on the file size, 16 or 8 bit, ppi?

How does the histogram look?

What happens if you print the straight scan from 16-bit mode without any
adjustments?

Martin Wesley

http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html



----- Original Message -----
From: "rich8155" <richard@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 2:58 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Piezo vs. Randall example and results. Questions,....


> Hello all,
>
> I'm still a relative beginner at this but after 2 months I am
> getting some very satisfactory results.  Some background: I use an
> Epson 1160 with an MIS CFS loaded with MIS FS-N inks.  I have the
> Piezo driver and usually print with that as I have found in
> comparisons with the Epson driver (with Randall curve applied) the
> Piezo gives more dotless mid-tones and highlights.  Sometimes
> however some prints look better with the Randall curve (the Piezo
> tends to print darker).  So, with the less dots I have mostly used
> the Piezo driver and have been in awe of the smooth mid-tones in
> particular.
>
> But now I have printed an image that is showing me an amazing
> difference from the Piezo driver results to the Epson drive/randall
> curve results, and the Piezo is falling very flat in this instance.
> The image can be found here:
>
> <http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=956273&size=lg>
>
> as you can see we have some fairly fast and radical transition from
> severe highlights to almost pure black.  I printed the Piezo one
> first and as you can see there are obvious and very poor transition
> points to be seen around the highlights.  The result is awful and
> unacceptable output.  The Epson driver/Randall curve seems to have
> handled the transition in a much smoother and acceptable manner.
>
> I have printed out two 21stepNew.jpg wedges using each driver since
> then and I cannot really see any fault with either of them (again
> though the Piezo prints darker shadows). They both look very good to
> my untrained and less-experienced eye.  So I am puzzled.
>
> I am not showing this to try and put down the Piezo driver.  I am
> more asking if what I am finding here is typical or perhaps points
> to a problem with my method or process.  If I only printed with the
> Piezo I would think it has something to do with my printer, but from
> the Randall results we can see the printer has the ability to print
> just fine.  I have followed the set-up and workflow of both
> drivers/curves precisely.
>
> Any suggestions on why I'm getting these results?
>
> Thank you for any input and comment.
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
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>
>

Sunday, August 18, 2002, 3:17:06 PM, Martin Wesley wrote:

MW> Richard,

MW> That kind of tonal transition is seems to be a tough one for inkjet
MW> printing. I have found the Epson driver is often a better choice in cases
MW> like this. I am afraid I have more questions than answers.

MW> Can you give us some info on the file size, 16 or 8 bit, ppi?

MW> How does the histogram look?

MW> What happens if you print the straight scan from 16-bit mode without any
MW> adjustments?

MW> Martin Wesley


Hi Martin,

thanks for the fast reply.  Answers:

It is a 16-bit file.

Histogram here:

<http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=956349&size=lg>

I did not save the raw file.  Though I remember my levels adjustment
was almost nil.  Just some bringing in of the left side to makes the
blacks dark and rich.

Best regards,
 Richard  

mailto:richard@...

Sunday, August 18, 2002, 3:17:06 PM, Martin Wesley wrote:

MW> Can you give us some info on the file size, 16 or 8 bit, ppi?


oops, did not answer all you asked:

file size: 101.7 MB (16-bit) 5232 x 3318

printed at about 18 cm x 11 cm at a resolution of 747.429

Best regards,
 Richard  

mailto:richard@...

Richard,

The histogram looks pretty good. Well within what would be considered okay.
At this point I would first suggest pursuing the Randall version since it is
so much closer to where you want to be.

You might:

- Try lowering the contrast. The two prints have a lot more contrast than
the file.
- Try rescanning and see if you can effect the outcome.
- Tweak the Randall curve for this image to eliminate or shift the problem
transitions.
- Used Color Select to select the problem areas and apply adjustment curves
to those narrow tonal ranges.

I don't know if any of that will help but one of them might get you moving
towards a solution.

Martin Wesley

http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html



----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Sintchak" <richard@...>
To: "Martin Wesley" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 3:32 PM
Subject: Re[2]: [Digital BW] Piezo vs. Randall example and results.
Questions,....


> Sunday, August 18, 2002, 3:17:06 PM, Martin Wesley wrote:
>
> MW> Richard,
>
> MW> That kind of tonal transition is seems to be a tough one for inkjet
> MW> printing. I have found the Epson driver is often a better choice in
cases
> MW> like this. I am afraid I have more questions than answers.
>
> MW> Can you give us some info on the file size, 16 or 8 bit, ppi?
>
> MW> How does the histogram look?
>
> MW> What happens if you print the straight scan from 16-bit mode without
any
> MW> adjustments?
>
> MW> Martin Wesley
>
>
> Hi Martin,
>
> thanks for the fast reply.  Answers:
>
> It is a 16-bit file.
>
> Histogram here:
>
> <http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=956349&size=lg>
>
> I did not save the raw file.  Though I remember my levels adjustment
> was almost nil.  Just some bringing in of the left side to makes the
> blacks dark and rich.
>
> Best regards,
>  Richard
>
> mailto:richard@...
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Sunday, August 18, 2002, 3:58:31 PM, Martin Wesley wrote:

MW> Richard,

MW> The histogram looks pretty good. Well within what would be considered okay.
MW> At this point I would first suggest pursuing the Randall version since it is
MW> so much closer to where you want to be.

MW> You might:

MW> - Try lowering the contrast. The two prints have a lot more contrast than
MW> the file.
MW> - Try rescanning and see if you can effect the outcome.
MW> - Tweak the Randall curve for this image to eliminate or shift the problem
MW> transitions.
MW> - Used Color Select to select the problem areas and apply adjustment curves
MW> to those narrow tonal ranges.

MW> I don't know if any of that will help but one of them might get you moving
MW> towards a solution.

MW> Martin Wesley


Thanks for the suggestions Martin.  When I have time I'll try some of
them using the Piezo driver on this image.  The Epson driver/Randall
curves actually looks quite nice, so as you say, perhaps it's the
Epson driver/Randall curve for such prints.  I will see about tweaking
the Randall curve a bit and see if I can get it even better.

Best regards,
 Richard  

mailto:richard@...