Digital BW, The Print

Can someone who has used both PhotoRag and German Etching explain the
differences between these two papers? There is a sizeable price jump
and am curious if it comes down to texural finish and/or performance.

Best,
Jamie.

jamie drouin : photographs
http://www.jamiedrouin.com

A bought some Photo Rag at a local art supply store this weekend and the 
guy who sold it to me said Photo Rag has the same 'emulsion' as German 
Etching. I assume he meant the coating. I have no idea if what he says is 
true. Just passing it along and wondering if anyone else can confirm.

I started testing MIS FS inks this weekend with the Piezo driver and found 
GE to be more to my liking that Photo Rag. Right now, I like both GE and 
Crane Museo with the MIS FS/Piezo combo.

Cone (inkjetmall.com) sells sample packs that contain a sheet or two of the 
Photo Rag variations. It's an inexpensive way to try some.

Jeff Greer

At 02:07 AM 08/19/2002 +0000, you wrote:

>Can someone who has used both PhotoRag and German Etching explain the
>differences between these two papers? There is a sizeable price jump
>and am curious if it comes down to texural finish and/or performance.
>
>Best,
>Jamie.
>
>jamie drouin : photographs
>http://www.jamiedrouin.com
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and 
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--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., J Greer <jgpinfo@u...> 
wrote:
> Cone (inkjetmall.com) sells sample packs that contain a sheet 
or two of the 
> Photo Rag variations. It's an inexpensive way to try some.

I believe that MediaStreet.com sells a *very* similar product as 
Photo Rag, under the name Royal Renaissance, for a somewhat 
lesser price.

I also think that German Etching has a slightly more textured 
surface than Photo Rag.

I also tested a paper called BrightCube Satine BrightWhite 
recently, and at least on my 9600, running Ultrachromes and 
matte black, the black level on the Brightcube was as good or 
better. Plus, the paper is noticeably heavier and more stout. And, 
it's much cheaper than PhotoRag.

http://www.brightcube.com/products/paper/

I am not endorsing any of these yet. I am still testing them. I was 
printing everything on Museo, but the MatteBlack ink does not do 
well with Museo (weak blacks). Therefore, I'm on the hunt...

MT, http://marktucker.com

In a message dated 8/18/2002 8:20:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
jgpinfo@... writes:


> I started testing MIS FS inks this weekend with the Piezo driver and found 
> GE to be more to my liking that Photo Rag. Right now, I like both GE and 
> Crane Museo with the MIS FS/Piezo combo.
> 
Watch out for German etching FS combo in Florecent lighting. Will go greenish 
on you As well as Cone inks. Performance wise, PhotoRag And German 
Etching(orwell) Should be equal or very similar as should the price! The 
Gernman Etch paper just has an off white base and more "tooth" than the 
brighter Photorag.
Steven meyers


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Same goes for PhotoRag?


> Watch out for German etching FS combo in Florecent lighting. Will go
greenish 
> on you As well as Cone inks.

In a message dated 8/18/2002 8:36:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, 
dandy@... writes:


> Same goes for PhotoRag?
> 
> 
> > Watch out for German etching FS combo in Florecent lighting. Will go
> greenish 
> > on you As well as Cone inks.
> 
You may not have noticed  that "glass" is a source of a green tint also. I 
recently switched to Plexiglass on my photorag MIS FS prints and all is well 
;0) The non  glare plexiglass exhibits really nice tone and look>for my work 
anyway!
Steven Meyers
http://www.xray-art.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jamie,

I find that the German Etching is a bit warmer than Photo Rag and has a lot
more texture as well. The German Etching is also a much stiffer paper. The
Photo Rag is brighter and smoother. In terms of price they should be pretty
close when comparing the Photo Rag 308gsm to the German Etching which only
comes in 310gsm. The lighter weight Photo Rag 188gsm is a bit cheaper. Both
are very beautiful papers and you really should try it out for yourself.

http://www.inkjetart.com/index.html
http://www.digitalartsupplies.com/
http://www.inkjetmall.com/store/conetech-photoarts.html

All have sample packs available. I believe that Digital Art Supplies will
sell you just a couple of sheets if you want to try it.

Martin Wesley

http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html



----- Original Message -----
From: "jamiedrouin" <dandy@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 7:07 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] Diff between PhotoRag and German Etching


> Can someone who has used both PhotoRag and German Etching explain the
> differences between these two papers? There is a sizeable price jump
> and am curious if it comes down to texural finish and/or performance.
>
> Best,
> Jamie.
>
> jamie drouin : photographs
> http://www.jamiedrouin.com
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Unlike Photorag, German Etching has serious problems with surface
integrity...it flakes worse than any paper I've seen (other than perhaps
another Hahnemuhle paper: William Turner).  Personally, I wouldn't even
consider using German Etching because of this.  In addition, German Etching
is not a rag paper like photorag.  Both have optical brighteners in the
coating...I have no idea why they put them in German etching given its warm
color.

Robert

On 8/18/02 9:01 PM, "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@...> wrote:

> I find that the German Etching is a bit warmer than Photo Rag and has a lot
> more texture as well. The German Etching is also a much stiffer paper. The
> Photo Rag is brighter and smoother. In terms of price they should be pretty
> close when comparing the Photo Rag 308gsm to the German Etching which only
> comes in 310gsm. The lighter weight Photo Rag 188gsm is a bit cheaper. Both
> are very beautiful papers and you really should try it out for yourself.

Robert Morrison writes:
 > [...]  Both [Photorag and German Etching] have optical brighteners in the
 > coating...I have no idea why they put them in German etching given its warm
 > color.

Robert,

How did you reach the conclusion that they contain brighteners.  I put
some samples under a black light and didn't observer any significant
fluorescing (especially compared to the peice of laser printer paper
laying next to them).

g.

On 8/19/02 12:48 PM, "George Hartzell" <hartzell@...> wrote:

> Robert,
> 
> How did you reach the conclusion that they contain brighteners.  I put
> some samples under a black light and didn't observer any significant
> fluorescing (especially compared to the peice of laser printer paper
> laying next to them).
> 
> g.

Same way...but I would encourage you to use other coated inkjet papers for
comparison.  Look at the front side of the paper vs. the back side of the
paper.  The front side tells you about the coating and the back side tells
you about the paper.  I have tested both papers from several different
samples and they have always had brighteners.  Make sure to do your testing
in the dark (except for the black light). That said I have some William
Turner from Hahnemuhle that has OB's in the coating and other lots that
don't.  With Hahnemuhle...nothing is for sure...texture, coating integrity,
OB's etc. regularly vary from lot to lot (which incidentally isn't marked).
The even worse news is that Hahnemuhle lots are really small...making
frequent change even more likely. Hahnemuhle makes poor quality paper...that
just happens to have the best blacks.  Another thing that I've recently
discovered about Hahnemuhle papers is that quad prints printed on them are
not as waterfast as other common coated inkjet papers.  My guess is that
this has to do with the coating.  I've always guessed that Hahnemuhle uses
polyvinylalcohol as at least part of their coating and this would be
consistent with poorer waterfastness.

For reference,

Museo, Epson Fine Art and Eclipse Satine Soft White are OB free while most
other papers have OB's.  EAM or EHM...whatever you would like to call it is
an appropriate positive OB control.

Robert