Digital BW, The Print

I appreciate the head's up from all on the Microtek as they do make the
hardware for the Polaroid.   I've done some test scans with the Nikon 4000 &
Nikon IVED.  I thought them fine scanners but almost too sharp as they
picked up every little imperfection.  I also got some test scans with the
Canon 4000 and they are too sharp.   With faster but fine-grained films such
as TMY  thought the Canon was emphasizing the grain too much and made the
scans unuseable whereas the Nikons kept grain to a minimum.

I understand there is a different light source with the Polaroid/Microtek
that may be more suitable for BW silver-emulsion films.   I'll check this
out further.

RIck

on 8/31/2002 4:03 PM, DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com at
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 16:53:52 -0500
> From: Jerry Olson <jerryolson@...>
> Subject: Re: BW 35mm scanner: Canon 4000 or Microtek 4000
> 
> Ah, but I use color film and convert to black and white. That way you
> can use fare, ice, etc.  Once the image is in the computer, you'd have a
> very hard time telling which film it was shot on. Especially once you
> make any adjustments.
> 
> Jerry

Jerry,

Just to "stir the pot", from my experience, B&W silver films have a unique
look, even when scanned.  Scans from color films can make fine photographs,
with a lot of potential from having all the colors at your disposal (for
b&w) but they still have a different look than traditional silver b&w films
when scanned.

 
-Bruce

Visit my website at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~smthopr

on 9/1/2002 12:18 PM, DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com at
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 11:40:02 -0500
> From: Jerry Olson <jerryolson@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: BW 35mm scanner: Canon 4000 or Microtek 4000
> 
> Bruce, I haven't noticed that at all. Once you start manipulating in
> photoshop, I can't tell a black and white film scan from a color one
> that has been converted in the channel mixer.
> 
> jerry

Jerry,

I find the most noticeable difference in the tonality of the deep shadows
and the grain structure throughout the print.
 
-Bruce

Visit my website at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~smthopr

Bruce,
 
Have you compared the grain structure of color neg film vs. chromagenic
B&W, such as Kodak's CN400 or Ilford's XP-1?  They should look similar,
since neither uses a silver grain, but rather clumps of dye, similar to
color film?
 
Karl Wolz

I find the most noticeable difference in the tonality of the deep
shadows
and the grain structure throughout the print.

-Bruce

Visit my website at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~smthopr





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on 9/2/2002 7:35 AM, DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com at
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 17:31:38 -0700
> From: "Karl Wolz" <wolzphoto@...>
> Subject: RE: Re: BW 35mm scanner: Canon 4000 or Microtek 4000
> 
> Bruce,
> 
> Have you compared the grain structure of color neg film vs. chromagenic
> B&W, such as Kodak's CN400 or Ilford's XP-1?  They should look similar,
> since neither uses a silver grain, but rather clumps of dye, similar to
> color film?
> 
> Karl Wolz
> 
> I find the most noticeable difference in the tonality of the deep
> shadows
> and the grain structure throughout the print.
> 
> -Bruce

Karl,

In theory, I agree with your statement. From experience, I've found that
CN400 is smoother than most if not all color neg film in grain. I have shot
only one roll of ilford c-41 film and found it to be very grainy in the
shadows and fine grained in the high mid tone and highlights. I don't like
this effect personally.

I guess my original point is that grain from dye clouds in color film are
just uglier for some reason than grain from silver b&w film.

For a grain free image, this is not an important difference, for 35mm b&w
where grain can stand out, it  becomes part of the esthetic.
 
-Bruce