Digital BW, The Print

Aside from the usual print exchange that goes here,I was thinking of
something different. There are now so many different combinations of
ink,paper,printer and software,that it\ufffds very hard for most of us now to
evaluate what's "better". So my idea is:
Someone chooses a representative image and upload it to the list archive.
All those who participate download it and print it with a certain
combination. Variables could be:

Inks: MIS VM,VM-Sepia and FS,Piezo in various flavors.
Printers: 1160,1280,3000 and it's little sisters (like the 980)
Paper: Maybe here we should stick to EAM only,otherwise the number of
combination will grow wild.
Drivers: Epson,Imageprint and Piezo.

So that we can stop wondering about differences and see for ourselves. Sure
that who is printing will still be an uncontrolled variable,but there are
limits to this idea...

Any ideas about this and how to improve and implement it?

Andr\ufffd Vallejo

Someone earlier had posted "technical" print exchange with the same 
idea. I had joined, but I have not heard anymore. The problem is to 
get a good image - who would volunteer their high resolution to be 
out in the public domain? Test images, such as the Fuji (which I have 
used quite a bit) are useful, but not very meaningful for artistic 
expression.

I would gladly participate if we can swing this.

Shilesh

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., André Vallejo <avs@p...> 
wrote:
> Aside from the usual print exchange that goes here,I was thinking of
> something different. There are now so many different combinations of
> ink,paper,printer and software,that it´s very hard for most of us 
now to
> evaluate what's "better". So my idea is:
> Someone chooses a representative image and upload it to the list 
archive.
> All those who participate download it and print it with a certain
> combination. Variables could be:
> 
> Inks: MIS VM,VM-Sepia and FS,Piezo in various flavors.
> Printers: 1160,1280,3000 and it's little sisters (like the 980)
> Paper: Maybe here we should stick to EAM only,otherwise the number 
of
> combination will grow wild.
> Drivers: Epson,Imageprint and Piezo.
> 
> So that we can stop wondering about differences and see for 
ourselves. Sure
> that who is printing will still be an uncontrolled variable,but 
there are

> limits to this idea...
> 
> Any ideas about this and how to improve and implement it?
> 
> André Vallejo

> Aside from the usual print exchange that goes here,I was thinking of
> something different. There are now so many different combinations of
> ink,paper,printer and software,that it´s very hard for most of us now to
> evaluate what's "better". So my idea is:
> Someone chooses a representative image and upload it to the list archive.
> All those who participate download it and print it with a certain
> combination. Variables could be:
snip
> 
> Any ideas about this and how to improve and implement it?

Mark Tucker just did this on the epson9000 list.  It started in order to see
output from different papers, from the newer large format printers.  You may
want to take a look at those threads.   Using the same group of images, good
visual representations for color (in their case) with targets and wedges
added I believe.  The only constant was the image.

Carolyn

In the past, I confess I've never paid much attention to the print 
exchanges. The idea seemed interesting but I never had time to follow the 
threads.

Your idea seems like a good one. I personally don't have the time or the 
pile of money to try every combination under the sun, not to mention the 
combinations continue to grow. But I may be up to participating in a print 
exchange like this if we could select the paper. I simply don't like EAM 
because other paper will last longer. Surely most people have one or two 
papers they use most of the time. Let them use one of those for the exchange.

And there is one other comment I might make: The ink/driver/paper/printer 
combo I select will match my images which will differ from the next 
person's. I may prefer high contrast most of the time while someone else 
may do the opposite. So I would suggest letting people interpret the image 
as well. Provide a basic scan in 16 bit and let everyone do whatever 
Levels/Curves/etc. they choose. While this may take away -- and in a big 
way -- from the comparison aspect of the exchange, it will also address 
something we may often overlook in our talk about b/w inkjet printing: that 
the combinations one person chooses match their personal style and may not 
work for the next person because their style is different. I'm also 
interested in a discussion on this particular point.

Jeff Greer

At 05:57 PM 09/02/2002 -0300, you wrote:

>Aside from the usual print exchange that goes here,I was thinking of
>something different. There are now so many different combinations of
>ink,paper,printer and software,that it´s very hard for most of us now to
>evaluate what's "better". So my idea is:
>Someone chooses a representative image and upload it to the list archive.
>All those who participate download it and print it with a certain
>combination. Variables could be:
>
>Inks: MIS VM,VM-Sepia and FS,Piezo in various flavors.
>Printers: 1160,1280,3000 and it's little sisters (like the 980)
>Paper: Maybe here we should stick to EAM only,otherwise the number of
>combination will grow wild.
>Drivers: Epson,Imageprint and Piezo.
>
>So that we can stop wondering about differences and see for ourselves. Sure
>that who is printing will still be an uncontrolled variable,but there are
>limits to this idea...
>
>Any ideas about this and how to improve and implement it?
>
>André Vallejo
>
>
>
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As a first round, it might be best to use a standard image with one 
paper, most likely EAM . If each printer has the option of 
manipulating the image, then it would be significantly more difficult 
to differentiate the ink variable from the others. 

If this exchange is successful, then further variables could be 
explored.

Evan Wolarsky


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., André Vallejo <avs@p...> 
wrote:
> Aside from the usual print exchange that goes here,I was thinking of
> something different. There are now so many different combinations of
> ink,paper,printer and software,that it´s very hard for most of
us 
now to
> evaluate what's "better". So my idea is:
> Someone chooses a representative image and upload it to the list 
archive.
> All those who participate download it and print it with a certain
> combination. Variables could be:
> 
> Inks: MIS VM,VM-Sepia and FS,Piezo in various flavors.
> Printers: 1160,1280,3000 and it's little sisters (like the 980)
> Paper: Maybe here we should stick to EAM only,otherwise the number 
of
> combination will grow wild.
> Drivers: Epson,Imageprint and Piezo.
> 
> So that we can stop wondering about differences and see for 
ourselves. Sure
> that who is printing will still be an uncontrolled variable,but 
there are

> limits to this idea...
> 
> Any ideas about this and how to improve and implement it?
> 
> André Vallejo

Andre's suggested exchange is very similar to the exchange Anton 
suggested previously. I hope their proposals converge and that I can 
participate. But I'm going to Maine on vacation tomorrow and won't be 
back or see my e-mail until late September. So I thought I'd post 
this in hopes of getting on any lists related to the exchange(s).

Assuming it survives three dormant weeks, I'd print with MIS VM 
Sepia-Neutral on an 1160 with a CIS. I have an 1160w/CIS with Gen 4 
in it but haven't used it for B&W. I hope one or more participants 
will print from color ink sets, however, because I've been very 
impressed  by prints made with color ink sets in Tom O'Connell's 
exchanges.

Thanks for keeping my interest in mind.

Sam McCandless                samcc@...

This is a good idea. I haven't included something like this in the 
monthly list because it is already hard to get 15 people together at 
the same time with no restrictions. When I tried three different 
themes, I spent more time trying to fill and refill the exchange.

After 9 months, it is finally getting "near" automatic, but not by 
much. So I don't want to disrupt the continuity that is starting to 
work for the monthly exchange.

If someone decides to volunteer to manage this one, I'd be glad to 
speak with you offline and help you if you think you might benefit 
from the experiences of the monthly exchanges.

Tom O'Connell

TomOC@...
www.thomasoconnell.com



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., André Vallejo <avs@p...> 
wrote:
> Aside from the usual print exchange that goes here,I was thinking of
> something different. There are now so many different combinations of
> ink,paper,printer and software,that it´s very hard for most of us 
now to
> evaluate what's "better". So my idea is:
> Someone chooses a representative image and upload it to the list 
archive.
> All those who participate download it and print it with a certain
> combination. Variables could be:
> 
> Inks: MIS VM,VM-Sepia and FS,Piezo in various flavors.
> Printers: 1160,1280,3000 and it's little sisters (like the 980)
> Paper: Maybe here we should stick to EAM only,otherwise the number 
of
> combination will grow wild.
> Drivers: Epson,Imageprint and Piezo.
> 
> So that we can stop wondering about differences and see for 
ourselves. Sure
> that who is printing will still be an uncontrolled variable,but 
there are

> limits to this idea...
> 
> Any ideas about this and how to improve and implement it?
> 
> André Vallejo