Digital BW, The Print

I am not ready to go back to the darkroom (yet) but using the 
various quad inksets that are available seem a little like the 
fellow that was hitting his head on the wall because it felt so good 
when he stopped.

Just for fun I tried printing some tritones and quadtones using 
photoshop, a Canon S9000, fotonic inks and Lyson photomatte. The 
reasult were not all that displeasing. What I rapidly found out is 
than my knowledge of using and manipulating duotones is at best 
rudimentary and I would be greatful for any suggestions on a 
reference(s) for using them in photoshop.

If these experiments work as well as I hope then I think the next 
step will be an Epson 2200 or perhaps a C80 with their longer lived 
pigmented inks. That seems to me to be a reasonable solution / 
workaround until someone comes up with a montotone inkset that is 
less problematic in terms of longevity and printer plugging.

Roger

There are many tutorials on duotones in PS.

A nice one for photographers can be found at
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/duotone.shtml

Using this article as a starting point, I have made several nice  
quadtone color schemes - exactly as I like them, rather than as 
purchased. Each print can get its own "best" or appropriate color 
scheme, without a change in inks. the same printer can be used for 
B&W and color. For example, I have been able to replicate 
the "bronze" look of Paul Strand's prints, which were gold-toned and 
varnished.

One trick I have discovered is to use the black tone to "tweak" the
settings, such that a 10-step step-wedge ends up going from 0% to 100%
brightness in 10% increments. The result is a quadtone that can be 
aplied to a greyscale image without a need to re-adjust the bightness 
curves.

- Ken Lee


> I am not ready to go back to the darkroom (yet) but using the 
> various quad inksets that are available seem a little like the 
> fellow that was hitting his head on the wall because it felt so 
good 

> when he stopped.
> 
> Just for fun I tried printing some tritones and quadtones using 
> photoshop, a Canon S9000, fotonic inks and Lyson photomatte. The 
> reasult were not all that displeasing. What I rapidly found out is 
> than my knowledge of using and manipulating duotones is at best 
> rudimentary and I would be greatful for any suggestions on a 
> reference(s) for using them in photoshop.
> 
> If these experiments work as well as I hope then I think the next 
> step will be an Epson 2200 or perhaps a C80 with their longer lived 
> pigmented inks. That seems to me to be a reasonable solution / 
> workaround until someone comes up with a montotone inkset that is 
> less problematic in terms of longevity and printer plugging.
> 
> Roger

I found this on Tom's hardware Guide...

Looks like Canon is going to release the camera back many have been waiting for - an 11.1 mp full frame digital.

http://www.digitalfocus.net/sections/views/1DsRumour/1DsRelease.htm

Roger


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Roger L Sopher" 
<rlsopher@c...> wrote:
> I found this on Tom's hardware Guide...
> 
> Looks like Canon is going to release the camera back many have been 
waiting for - an 11.1 mp full frame digital.
> 
> http://www.digitalfocus.net/sections/views/1DsRumour/1DsRelease.htm
> 
> Roger


Roger-

Just to be accurate, this isn't a camera back but a new SLR that 
should dwarf the results of the Fuji mega CCD. BTW, the Nikon forums 
are buzzing with rumors of a new camera as well...could be an 
exciting Christmas...actually not...these things get announced in 
October and November, but try actually getting one before next 
summer !!!

I make a distinction of the camera from a back because the 
price/performance pressures on the digital backs are almost at the 
point where they are the same price...even counting the cost of a 
medium format camera and lenses...well...almost...

cheers,

Tom O'Connell

TomOC@...
www.thomasoconnell.com

Point well taken, I should have said body rather than back. Old age and senescence are moving in at more than a creeping speed. With a putative price of ~6K it is a fair bit less expensive compared to say the new Sinar back that was recently announced by a factor of, I would guess, at least 3.

Roger

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Tom O'Connell [mailto:TomOC@...]
  Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 12:06 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Canon OOPS





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  - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jerry,

Sounds like you need an adaptation of Mark Tucker's Plungercam ; )  

Seriously, though, you would be better off seeing an opthamologist, a medical 
doctor rather than an eyeglass guy.

Helene 

<<I have to change 

my glasses

for every distance I see at by pulling them out or pushing them in.>>

<<  Not even 

my optometrist

has ever seen another person with this eyesight conditon. >>

I have zero experience with using duotone (or tritone etc) in PS but would like to try to get 
file versions of some of my images that match my prints' hue.  What would be the best way to 
start with this?  For example, how could I get a copy of the file to closely match Epson's Adv 
B&W "warm-darker" setting?

Cheers

Steve

I tried these lastnight , along with a few of my own.

I liked the "lenswork neutral" the best.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/699
02


But, it's hard to beat the C86 with a couple of "warm" carts 
installed.

Damn shame there's not a "wideformat" C86. Love those EZ inks.


JMO,

Scott


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Kale" 
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
>
> I have zero experience with using duotone (or tritone etc) in PS 
but would like to try to get 
> file versions of some of my images that match my prints' hue.  What 
would be the best way to 
> start with this?  For example, how could I get a copy of the file 
to closely match Epson's Adv 

> B&W "warm-darker" setting?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Steve
>

> Damn shame there's not a "wideformat" C86. Love those EZ inks.
> 

A magazine writer was thinking of taking a 4000 and setting it up as a "dual
EZ" printer in its fast printing mode.  I never heard if he actually did it.
The idea sounded interesting -- but not cheap.

I'm hoping Epson replaces the 1280 with a printer that uses the R200 carts,
but, again, it would not be priced like the C86 & R200/220.  (The R200 might
be under a special rebate program now.)

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

That would be nice.

I'd kind of like to have a 4000 just to print B.O.

Unfortunatly, I need to keep PK in my 4800 because I need to print 
color ( on any surface besides matte!).

Scott

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
>
> > Damn shame there's not a "wideformat" C86. Love those EZ inks.
> > 
> 
> A magazine writer was thinking of taking a 4000 and setting it up 
as a "dual
> EZ" printer in its fast printing mode.  I never heard if he 
actually did it.
> The idea sounded interesting -- but not cheap.
> 
> I'm hoping Epson replaces the 1280 with a printer that uses the 
R200 carts,
> but, again, it would not be priced like the C86 & R200/220.  (The 
R200 might

> be under a special rebate program now.)
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

Not sure this helps me at all Scott.  I want the FILE to have a hue to match
my prints...ie so that if I send someone the image or post it on a website
they see not a neutral greyscale image but one tinted such that it looks
like, say, a printed version.

> From: scott_now_coming <scott_now_coming@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 18:46:46 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Duotones
> 
> I tried these lastnight , along with a few of my own.
> 
> I liked the "lenswork neutral" the best.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/699
> 02
> 
> 
> But, it's hard to beat the C86 with a couple of "warm" carts
> installed.
> 
> Damn shame there's not a "wideformat" C86. Love those EZ inks.
> 
> 
> JMO,
> 
> Scott

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Kale" <stevekale@b...> 
wrote:
>
> I have zero experience with using duotone (or tritone etc) in PS but would like to try to 
get 
> file versions of some of my images that match my prints' hue.  What would be the best 
way to 
> start with this?  For example, how could I get a copy of the file to closely match Epson's 
Adv 
> B&W "warm-darker" setting?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Steve
>

Hi Steve,

It's easy.  Make up a QTR ICC profile for the ABW settings.  Just like you'd be softproofing
it with the warm tone.  Convert your grayscale to this profile.  It will now be grayscale
but show the color of the ink. Now convert that to AdobeRGB.   The color of the ink will
now show in the RGB values.

Roy

How about the Ken Lee quadtone plug-ins?

They can be downloaded here:


http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/bronze.htm

I used these and saved the file as RGB then printed them on the 4800 in 
the "color" mode. Now I've been using the ABW with tinting.


Scott

Can you color profile the output, use the profile for softproofing in
Ps, and make hue/color adjustments on a copy converted back to RGB? 
You should only need to do that once and then set up an action to
automate the adjustments.At least until you use other papers etc.
You might also try useing your i1 to get measurements of grayscale
patches of printed sample and convert or calculate #s to RGB and plug
them into Ps curves for the RGB grayscale to get something useable.
Cludges perhaps but just thoughts.

Regards
Duane

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
>
> Not sure this helps me at all Scott.  I want the FILE to have a hue
to match
> my prints...ie so that if I send someone the image or post it on a
website

> they see not a neutral greyscale image but one tinted such that it looks
> like, say, a printed version.
> 
>

I'll give this a try but wouldn't it pick up the reduced dynamic range of
the print.  I should have been more specific perhaps.  I'd like to tint the
image file similar to say a warm print but keep the full dynamic range (as
opposed to a file "soft-proof").  For example, if someone wants to send an
image to a magazine and have it printed with the same hue as their QTR warm
curve but won't have input into the printing process (and so need to send a
colour image rather than a greyscale).

> From: Roy Harrington <roy@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 21:57:28 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Duotones
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Kale"
> <stevekale@b...> 
> wrote:
>> 
>> I have zero experience with using duotone (or tritone etc) in PS but would
>> like to try to 
> get 
>> file versions of some of my images that match my prints' hue.  What would be
>> the best 
> way to 
>> start with this?  For example, how could I get a copy of the file to closely
>> match Epson's 
> Adv 
>> B&W "warm-darker" setting?
>> 
>> Cheers
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
> 
> Hi Steve,
> 
> It's easy.  Make up a QTR ICC profile for the ABW settings.  Just like you'd
> be softproofing
> it with the warm tone.  Convert your grayscale to this profile.  It will now
> be grayscale
> but show the color of the ink. Now convert that to AdobeRGB.   The color of
> the ink will
> now show in the RGB values.
> 
> Roy

4 words:  You are a genius.

> From: Roy Harrington <roy@...>

> 
> Hi Steve,
> 
> It's easy.  Make up a QTR ICC profile for the ABW settings.  Just like you'd
> be softproofing
> it with the warm tone.  Convert your grayscale to this profile.  It will now
> be grayscale
> but show the color of the ink. Now convert that to AdobeRGB.   The color of
> the ink will
> now show in the RGB values.
> 
> Roy

Try it.  The BPC keeps everything matched up in DynR.  It does exactly what 
I think it is you want.  The duotones are much more difficult way to do this.

Roy

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale <stevekale@b...> 
wrote:

>
> I'll give this a try but wouldn't it pick up the reduced dynamic range of
> the print.  I should have been more specific perhaps.  I'd like to tint the
> image file similar to say a warm print but keep the full dynamic range (as
> opposed to a file "soft-proof").  For example, if someone wants to send an
> image to a magazine and have it printed with the same hue as their QTR warm
> curve but won't have input into the printing process (and so need to send a
> colour image rather than a greyscale).
> 
> 
> > From: Roy Harrington <roy@h...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 21:57:28 -0000
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Duotones
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Kale"
> > <stevekale@b...> 
> > wrote:
> >> 
> >> I have zero experience with using duotone (or tritone etc) in PS but would
> >> like to try to 
> > get 
> >> file versions of some of my images that match my prints' hue.  What would be
> >> the best 
> > way to 
> >> start with this?  For example, how could I get a copy of the file to closely
> >> match Epson's 
> > Adv 
> >> B&W "warm-darker" setting?
> >> 
> >> Cheers
> >> 
> >> Steve
> >> 
> > 
> > Hi Steve,
> > 
> > It's easy.  Make up a QTR ICC profile for the ABW settings.  Just like you'd
> > be softproofing
> > it with the warm tone.  Convert your grayscale to this profile.  It will now
> > be grayscale
> > but show the color of the ink. Now convert that to AdobeRGB.   The color of
> > the ink will
> > now show in the RGB values.
> > 
> > Roy
>

Can anyone refer me to a good tutorial with specific examples of
working with duotone, tritone, and quadtone, files? There must be
something good online. I've done very little of this since I don't
generally output to offset.

John

john dean writes:
 > Can anyone refer me to a good tutorial with specific examples of
 > working with duotone, tritone, and quadtone, files? There must be
 > something good online. I've done very little of this since I don't
 > generally output to offset.

It's not online, but I've found Nick Clark's "Duotones Tritones and
Quadtones" (ISBN 0-8118-1426-2) to be a good read.

g.