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UltraChrome Fade test

UltraChrome Fade test

2002-09-20 by Paul Roark

The fade test of the UltraChrome "B&W" test strip in my fluorescent light
fader has reached 300 hours.  It was tested against the MIS Archival
pigments (with the tougher yellow, like Gen4, and the VM/FS black -- what I
use for color) the PiezoTone Selenium inks, all on Archival/Enhanced Matte.

The important results are, first, that the UltraChrome matte black at the
100% patch maintained its 1.73 density -- no measurable fade, outstanding.
The VM/FS black lost 0.02 units, dropping from 1.63 to 1.61.  The PT-K
dropped from 1.71 to 1.62.  (We must see if the UltraChrome matte black
works in standard old Epson printers.)

Second, the magenta pigment appears to be the weak link in both the MIS
pigments and the UltraChromes.  However, whereas the UltraChrome magenta
dropped only 0.01 unit, the MIS magenta dropped 0.04 units.

So, while the UltraChrome shift was not visible yet, the MIS test strip is
visibly shifted.

Both the UltraChrome 50% patch and the PiezoTone 50% patch dropped only 0.01
units in visual density.  An excellent performance.  The PT-S warmed 0.01
unit.  The MIS 50% patch faded 0.03 units.

Visually, the only changes are the MIS Archival inks shifting, the paper
yellowing, and the PT-K fading and warming (which is not news any more).

So, the star is the UltraChrome matte black, and the UltraChrome and
PiezoTone midtones are both excellent and about equal.

I would guess -- speculate based on what I've seen in other testing -- that
the UltraChrome will continue to turn slightly green, whereas the quad
midtone will probably tend to stabilize.  However, it would take more
testing, and that may not happen for a while.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] UltraChrome Fade test

2002-09-20 by Robert Morrison

Thanks Paul.  I have a 7600 cart of matte black that I am going to use to
fill a 7000 and 1280 black cart (as soon as they arrive from MIS) and then
run them with the Selenium Piezotones in both printers using the piezo,
imageprint and epson drivers.  The problem so far with the Ultrachromes is
that it seems that they only give a good black on EAM...performance is worse
(at least using the epson driver) with any other matte paper.  This is
probably the result, once again, of not having the proper paper settings in
the epson driver.  Perhaps we will be able to get around it with imageprint.

Robert
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 9/19/02 6:42 PM, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> wrote:

> The fade test of the UltraChrome "B&W" test strip in my fluorescent light
> fader has reached 300 hours.  It was tested against the MIS Archival
> pigments (with the tougher yellow, like Gen4, and the VM/FS black -- what I
> use for color) the PiezoTone Selenium inks, all on Archival/Enhanced Matte.
> 
> The important results are, first, that the UltraChrome matte black at the
> 100% patch maintained its 1.73 density -- no measurable fade, outstanding.
> The VM/FS black lost 0.02 units, dropping from 1.63 to 1.61.  The PT-K
> dropped from 1.71 to 1.62.  (We must see if the UltraChrome matte black
> works in standard old Epson printers.)
> 
> Second, the magenta pigment appears to be the weak link in both the MIS
> pigments and the UltraChromes.  However, whereas the UltraChrome magenta
> dropped only 0.01 unit, the MIS magenta dropped 0.04 units.
> 
> So, while the UltraChrome shift was not visible yet, the MIS test strip is
> visibly shifted.
> 
> Both the UltraChrome 50% patch and the PiezoTone 50% patch dropped only 0.01
> units in visual density.  An excellent performance.  The PT-S warmed 0.01
> unit.  The MIS 50% patch faded 0.03 units.
> 
> Visually, the only changes are the MIS Archival inks shifting, the paper
> yellowing, and the PT-K fading and warming (which is not news any more).
> 
> So, the star is the UltraChrome matte black, and the UltraChrome and
> PiezoTone midtones are both excellent and about equal.
> 
> I would guess -- speculate based on what I've seen in other testing -- that
> the UltraChrome will continue to turn slightly green, whereas the quad
> midtone will probably tend to stabilize.  However, it would take more
> testing, and that may not happen for a while.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
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> 
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> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] UltraChrome Fade test

2002-09-20 by Jerry Olson

Paul, would the ultrachrome matte black be compatible with either
generations or MIS inks though?

Jerry

Paul Roark wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> The fade test of the UltraChrome "B&W" test strip in my fluorescent light
> fader has reached 300 hours.  It was tested against the MIS Archival
> pigments (with the tougher yellow, like Gen4, and the VM/FS black -- what I
> use for color) the PiezoTone Selenium inks, all on Archival/Enhanced Matte.
>

Re: [Digital BW] UltraChrome Fade test

2002-09-20 by Robert Morrison

Shouldn't be a problem...just don't mix the inks in a cart of bottle. I
don't think that head capping cross contamination is a serious threat for
any of these systems.  I've recently used three different blacks in tests
and haven't had any problem.  When you get into problems is when you
actually mix inks in the lines that supply the head. As mentioned
previously, I will be using the ultrachrome black with the piezotones in a
test soon.

Robert
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 9/19/02 7:24 PM, "Jerry Olson" <jerryolson@...> wrote:

> Paul, would the ultrachrome matte black be compatible with either
> generations or MIS inks though?
> 
> Jerry
> 
> Paul Roark wrote:
>> 
>> The fade test of the UltraChrome "B&W" test strip in my fluorescent light
>> fader has reached 300 hours.  It was tested against the MIS Archival
>> pigments (with the tougher yellow, like Gen4, and the VM/FS black -- what I
>> use for color) the PiezoTone Selenium inks, all on Archival/Enhanced Matte.
>> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] UltraChrome Fade test

2002-09-20 by Antonis Ricos

Paul,

since I did this test:  yes! And PR is the only one (so far)  that doesn't sheen in 
the blacks. 

Go figure... ! <g>

Antonis




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@v...> 
wrote:
> Robert,
> 
> Is the UltraChrome matte black weaker on PhotoRag than EAM?  That 
would be a
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> first.
> 
> Paul

RE: [Digital BW] UltraChrome Fade test

2002-09-20 by Paul Roark

Robert,

Is the UltraChrome matte black weaker on PhotoRag than EAM?  That would be a
first.

Paul
_____________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Robert Morrison [mailto:rmorrison@...]
  Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 6:11 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] UltraChrome Fade test


  Thanks Paul.  I have a 7600 cart of matte black that I am going to use to
  fill a 7000 and 1280 black cart (as soon as they arrive from MIS) and then
  run them with the Selenium Piezotones in both printers using the piezo,
  imageprint and epson drivers.  The problem so far with the Ultrachromes is
  that it seems that they only give a good black on EAM...performance is
worse
  (at least using the epson driver) with any other matte paper.  This is
  probably the result, once again, of not having the proper paper settings
in
  the epson driver.  Perhaps we will be able to get around it with
imageprint.

  Robert

  On 9/19/02 6:42 PM, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> wrote:

  > The fade test of the UltraChrome "B&W" test strip in my fluorescent
light
  > fader has reached 300 hours.  It was tested against the MIS Archival
  > pigments (with the tougher yellow, like Gen4, and the VM/FS black --
what I
  > use for color) the PiezoTone Selenium inks, all on Archival/Enhanced
Matte.
  >
  > The important results are, first, that the UltraChrome matte black at
the
  > 100% patch maintained its 1.73 density -- no measurable fade,
outstanding.
  > The VM/FS black lost 0.02 units, dropping from 1.63 to 1.61.  The PT-K
  > dropped from 1.71 to 1.62.  (We must see if the UltraChrome matte black
  > works in standard old Epson printers.)
  >
  > Second, the magenta pigment appears to be the weak link in both the MIS
  > pigments and the UltraChromes.  However, whereas the UltraChrome magenta
  > dropped only 0.01 unit, the MIS magenta dropped 0.04 units.
  >
  > So, while the UltraChrome shift was not visible yet, the MIS test strip
is
  > visibly shifted.
  >
  > Both the UltraChrome 50% patch and the PiezoTone 50% patch dropped only
0.01
  > units in visual density.  An excellent performance.  The PT-S warmed
0.01
  > unit.  The MIS 50% patch faded 0.03 units.
  >
  > Visually, the only changes are the MIS Archival inks shifting, the paper
  > yellowing, and the PT-K fading and warming (which is not news any more).
  >
  > So, the star is the UltraChrome matte black, and the UltraChrome and
  > PiezoTone midtones are both excellent and about equal.
  >
  > I would guess -- speculate based on what I've seen in other testing --
that
  > the UltraChrome will continue to turn slightly green, whereas the quad
  > midtone will probably tend to stabilize.  However, it would take more
  > testing, and that may not happen for a while.
  >
  > Paul
  > http://www.PaulRoark.com
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other
  > resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
  >
  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
  >
  > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
  > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this
same
  > page.
  >
  > Please follow these basic guidelines:
  > - Include your full name with your message.
  > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
  > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep
  > them short.
  > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
  > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
  > &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
  > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
  > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
  > resources on the homepage.
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  >
  >


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  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
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page.

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
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  - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
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  - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
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  - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.




  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] UltraChrome Fade test

2002-09-20 by Robert Morrison

On 9/19/02 9:56 PM, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@...> wrote:

> Robert,
> 
> Is the UltraChrome matte black weaker on PhotoRag than EAM?  That would be a
> first.
> 
> Paul

Not unheard of.  EAM was also better for GenElite black.  MIS DD was close
to equal on the two papers.  Hahnemuhle really likes dyes (probably because
of the PVA resin in the coating)...thus Gen 4 and Piezotone Black do really,
really well on Hahnemuhle.  MIS FS only does slightly better.

Robert

Re: [Digital BW] UltraChrome Fade test

2002-09-20 by Martin Wesley

Antonis,

Is the UC black weaker than FS black on Photo Rag and the other H. papers?

Martin Wesley

http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html



----- Original Message -----
From: "Antonis Ricos" <antonisphoto@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] UltraChrome Fade test


> Paul,
>
> since I did this test:  yes! And PR is the only one (so far)  that doesn't
sheen in
> the blacks.
>
> Go figure... ! <g>
>
> Antonis
>
>
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@v...>
> wrote:
> > Robert,
> >
> > Is the UltraChrome matte black weaker on PhotoRag than EAM?  That
> would be a
> > first.
> >
> > Paul
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Re: [Digital BW] UltraChrome Fade test

2002-09-20 by Ernst Dinkla

Paul, you wrote:

> So, the star is the UltraChrome matte black, and the UltraChrome and
> PiezoTone midtones are both excellent and about equal.

Thank you for all the work done, nice to see the wished results.

Quads and hexatones for an Epson 3000 and 9000 with an Ultrachrome black and
Ultrachrome 50% to begin with and a fluid to mix the other tones then.
AFAIK, the Black is a bit sepia and the 50% has a yellow cast, are they too
much different in colour ?
Mediastreet's Jrano is worth a try for mixing or do you have another advice
?

Ernst

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