Digital BW, The Print

Robert,

This whole coating thing has become a topic all its own for me. I got into it for a 
couple of reasons -- for one, since I had a ton of already-ordered 35x47 Museo 
sitting in my office, I was committed to that paper. But since the 
matteblack/Ultrachromes don't work so well with that paper (blacks are weak), I 
was looking for some way to richen the blacks after the fact. The coatings work 
well to do that. Secondly, I'm so damn gun-shy about anybody calling these 
"computer prints", I'm doing anything and everything I can to de-computerize 
them, and to make them feel more "individual", where each print has a slight 
uniqueness. The coatings help here too.

I don't have any special affinity for the Oleopasto. It's expensive, and it's hard to 
apply. But once it's on, it looks great. I first tried applying the coating with a 
brush, which was fine, but it takes forever on a large print, and you use a much 
larger amount that you need to. I just go with it -- I just let the brush stokes 
show, and don't sweat it. Then, I got cheap with how much it cost to do each one, 
throwing away a good brush every time, and switched to those HomeDepot foam 
brushes. (I was afraid to soak the brushes in mineral spirits to save them for 
fear that the spirits would transfer to the next print). The foam brushes are OK, 
but don't have the romance in the texture that they leave. I then switched to a 
cheap white plastic spackling blade, that's about six inches wide. It's great to 
apply the material, 'cause you can just drag it around and over the print easily, 
but it also leaves buildup around the outer edges. I'm now thinking about making 
my own applicator, which would be a black, pliable rubber piece, screwed into a 
1x6, which would be about 36" wide. That way, almost like a silkscreen attitude, I 
could just pull the coating material over a 35x47 print in one fell swoop; one 
pass. That might be interesting.

I'm also going to get away from mounting these prints on boards, yada yada. The 
post production can get to be a giant time-suck, and I don't want to turn into a 
wood shop. I'm trying to find a way to show the print, on the wall, flat, with no 
frame, and certainly NO glass. It might just be a simple wood strip across the top 
of the print, with a hook in it. And then let the print blow in the wind.

The other thing that's appealing about the coating is the difference in surface 
finish. When you see the matte finish Museo or PhotoRag, and then notice that 
just the image area is glazed/coated, which leaves a semigloss finish, it's a nice 
contrast. Again, if you use glass it kills the whole vibe.

Any feedback or other technique info would be appreciated. Thanks.

MT, http://www.marktucker.com/

> I'm trying to find a way to show the print, on the wall, flat, with no 
> frame, and certainly NO glass. It might just be a simple wood strip across the 
top 
> of the print, with a hook in it. And then let the print blow in the wind.


Mark,

I am with you on that . However, if you only coat the image, as a long term 
exhibition solution, the paper will deteriorate around it without the glass/frame 
to protect it. I would be of the opinion that for prints "blowing in the wind" you 
should coat completely, front and back, and trim any exposed paper.  Or 
accept the fact that it's for "show" only and not to be sold for collections.


Antonis

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Antonis Ricos" 
<antonisphoto@y...> wrote:
However, if you only coat the image, as a long term 
> exhibition solution, the paper will deteriorate around it without 
the glass/frame 
> to protect it.


Antonis/Robert,

I went to the Janitor Store this morning and got a beta version of 
the Mayer Rod. It's basically a big-ass 24" wide window 
squeegee. I tested one 35x47 test print, and it's not so hot, 
although on some level, I like the primitiveness of it.

http://marktucker.com/temp/coating.html

The last two jpegs show the leftover Oleopasto. Looks like some 
outtake out of "Boogie Nights" but you get the idea.

Antonis, I think I've gotten to the point that I don't really care about 
Wilhelm, or when I'm dead, or even when I'm old. I print with 
pigments, I print with Museo, which is acidfree and 
brightener-free. I know it will last "a long time"; whatever that 
means. If not, I'll deal with it then. 

I'm not being irresponsible, because I'll tell a buyer all this. But 
I'm approaching this almost from a folk-art kindofa viewpoint. I'm 
not Ansel Adams, with my perfection and Zone System and 
clinical-ness; I'm just a schmoe who's going more for "mojo" 
than for anything else. "If you like it, buy it. If not, no big deal".

You can drive yourself nuts with all this anxiety. Screw it. You do 
the best you can to work with good materials, but at some point, 
you gotta chill a bit. Given, this approach is not for everybody, but 
it feels right for me. I would also add that my goal is to price 
these prints rather low. I don't live in Manhattan or SantaFe, and 
don't want to; so my market is rather limited. I might change my 
mind about all this, if I ever sign on with a gallery, but I love 
where I'm at with all this. I think I've found a good balance 
between anal-retentive and feel-good. To each his own.

I plan on sending Robert two prints tonight. I found a zillion 
references to a "Mayer Rod" on Google, but could find no picture 
of one. I'm curious to see what it looks like.

MT, http://www.marktucker.com

On 9/23/02 9:12 AM, "Mark Tucker" <mtucker508@...> wrote:

> Antonis/Robert,
> 
> I went to the Janitor Store this morning and got a beta version of
> the Mayer Rod. It's basically a big-ass 24" wide window
> squeegee. I tested one 35x47 test print, and it's not so hot,
> although on some level, I like the primitiveness of it.
> 
Not even close to a mayer rod...sorry.  I've tried every form of squeegee
that I could find...they don't work...because they don't put down sufficient
or uniform film thickness.  Same reason a glass rod, or ink brayer won't
work.  If you want a mayer rod, contact me off list.

Robert

> Antonis, I think I've gotten to the point that I don't really care about 
> Wilhelm, or when I'm dead, or even when I'm old. I print with 
> pigments, I print with Museo, which is acidfree and 
> brightener-free. I know it will last "a long time"; whatever that 
> means. If not, I'll deal with it then.

Mark,

I hear you.... I am in the market for large volumes of squid ink, myself, inspired 
by Futurama and discouraged by the "high tech" juice in the Piezotone black.

BTW, a little background on Myer rods:
http://www.buschmancorp.com/faq.asp

No, they are not squeegees! ( talk to Robert...). 



Antonis

Robert Morrison wrote:

>That's exactly what it is...in fact it is the devise that is used to
make
>most of our inkjet coated papers.  Rod coating is one of the most
common
>techniques (along with the air knife) for production coating.  The key
with
>a Mayer rod is to select the correct one for the viscosity and desired
film
>thickness of the final coating...that's what I've done...its a lot of
>work...but the final results are worth it.

Robert, et al.:

I have been following the current (and past) threads on this topic with
interest to see how it all shakes out, and have yet another suggestion.
I just had my living-room floor sanded and stained and noticed that the
final poly coat was applied with a mop with a flat foam applicator, of
all things. Fast for the contractor and I was surprised to see a very
even coat with no clue of the application method, as would probably be
evident if he used a brush. I would think it should put down a
reasonably even coat on a print, assuming you controlled the pressure
during application. Anyway, you guys have tried everything else, why not
this? No special (read expensive) rollers required, just an inexpensive
mop end--which you could just discard after each use without cleanup
(assuming that you do several prints per coating session to make it
worthwhile).

Bernie

Very technique dependent, like a varnish brush.  Your hardwood floor hides
brush or pad strokes well because of the grain...you have no such luxury
with a print on paper.  If you have really good brush technique you can get
passable prints...but its a lot of work.  In contrast Mayer rod coating,
while requiring the investment for a rod, and of course a coating formulated
for the rod, is much faster and easier.

Robert

On 9/23/02 12:21 PM, "Bernie Epstein" <bepstein@...> wrote:

> Robert Morrison wrote:
> 
>> That's exactly what it is...in fact it is the devise that is used to
> make
>> most of our inkjet coated papers.  Rod coating is one of the most
> common
>> techniques (along with the air knife) for production coating.  The key
> with
>> a Mayer rod is to select the correct one for the viscosity and desired
> film
>> thickness of the final coating...that's what I've done...its a lot of
>> work...but the final results are worth it.
> 
> Robert, et al.:
> 
> I have been following the current (and past) threads on this topic with
> interest to see how it all shakes out, and have yet another suggestion.
> I just had my living-room floor sanded and stained and noticed that the
> final poly coat was applied with a mop with a flat foam applicator, of
> all things. Fast for the contractor and I was surprised to see a very
> even coat with no clue of the application method, as would probably be
> evident if he used a brush. I would think it should put down a
> reasonably even coat on a print, assuming you controlled the pressure
> during application. Anyway, you guys have tried everything else, why not
> this? No special (read expensive) rollers required, just an inexpensive
> mop end--which you could just discard after each use without cleanup
> (assuming that you do several prints per coating session to make it
> worthwhile).
> 
> Bernie
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>

Bernie,

I'm beginning to sample if you are interested:

My product, Spectraguard Ink Jet coating, works on fine art inkjet papers
for example:

Epson Archival Matte
Hahnemuhle Photo Rag
Legion Photo Matte
Legion Somerset Enhanced
Crane Museo
Brightcube Eclipse Satine
Red River Premium Matte

The coating works on prints made with color and quad BW pigment based inks
that are water-fast after drying.  The coating is applied with a Mayer rod
so there are no brush strokes and the surface of the print preserves the
original texture of the paper.  The coating is non-yellowing and has been
shown in preliminary testing to improve the lightfastness of pigment-based
inks. The final prints have dmax well in excess of 2.0 and are mar
resistant.  The the quad BW prints look like fiber based silver prints.

If you are interested in seeing a sample please send two letter sized prints
meeting the above description to the address below with a self addressed
stamped envelope (you can also use a Fedex letter mailer with an account
number).  The prints should have a minimum of a 2 inch boarder on one
dimension and 1 inch on the remaining dimensions.  You may want to include a
gray step wedge so that you can measure the dmax improvement.  I will return
one of the prints to you coated and keep the other for my records.

Thanks for your interest,

Robert Morrison

Morrison Fine Art & Design
4131 Bledsoe Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 90066

On 9/23/02 12:21 PM, "Bernie Epstein" <bepstein@...> wrote:

> Robert Morrison wrote:
> 
>> That's exactly what it is...in fact it is the devise that is used to
> make
>> most of our inkjet coated papers.  Rod coating is one of the most
> common
>> techniques (along with the air knife) for production coating.  The key
> with
>> a Mayer rod is to select the correct one for the viscosity and desired
> film
>> thickness of the final coating...that's what I've done...its a lot of
>> work...but the final results are worth it.
> 
> Robert, et al.:
> 
> I have been following the current (and past) threads on this topic with
> interest to see how it all shakes out, and have yet another suggestion.
> I just had my living-room floor sanded and stained and noticed that the
> final poly coat was applied with a mop with a flat foam applicator, of
> all things. Fast for the contractor and I was surprised to see a very
> even coat with no clue of the application method, as would probably be
> evident if he used a brush. I would think it should put down a
> reasonably even coat on a print, assuming you controlled the pressure
> during application. Anyway, you guys have tried everything else, why not
> this? No special (read expensive) rollers required, just an inexpensive
> mop end--which you could just discard after each use without cleanup
> (assuming that you do several prints per coating session to make it
> worthwhile).
> 
> Bernie
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>