Digital BW, The Print

(Crossposted)

Frankly, I don't know what to think about these new blacks... I hope they
will perform as well as PT grays. BTW, I would like to hear about "updated
Piezography BW profiles for new PT inks"; I did my first prints the weekend
(1160 w/CIS) and... Piezography BW plug-in sucks! (I must admit that I use
FS / FS-N black) I got incredibly flat (no pure blacks, no pure whites, just
midtones) prints and disturbing microbanding - on both Photo Rag 188 and
EAM. Then I tried printing using the Epson driver/John Woolf workflow and
ta-da!... marvellous prints (almost non-noticeable dot patterns in
highlights - but it doesn't bother me at all compared the garbage I got with
Piezo plug-in). I seriously regret for what I paid to the Piezography
Plug-in :/ and will never recommend to anyone new into quadtone B/W printing
(unless they release an updated version or somebody tells me how to make it
work). The Selenium PT grays are really good; they are a pleasure to use on
Photo Rag. I cannot say the same think for EAM; PiezoTones on EAM are too
cold for my taste.

Regards,
Loris.

Sunday, September 29, 2002, 10:09:31 PM, Loris Medici wrote:

LM> I did my first prints the weekend
LM> (1160 w/CIS) and... Piezography BW plug-in sucks! (I must admit that I use
LM> FS / FS-N black) I got incredibly flat (no pure blacks, no pure whites, just
LM> midtones) prints and disturbing microbanding - on both Photo Rag 188 and
LM> EAM. 


Loris,

Do not use the Unsupported Ink setting in PiezoBW driver even though
you are.  I use the ConeTech Ink setting for my 1160 and FS-N inks and
the results are MUCH better.

Best regards,
 Richard  

mailto:richard@...

L i n k s  t o  m y  g a l l e r i e s:
http://fujirangefinder.com/document.php?id=246

Richard, thanks for the reply...

I'm not using "unsupported ink" setting. I used Hahnemuehle Photo Rag 188gsm
to experiment the plug-in\ufffd
Other settings are as follows: Profile = Hahnemuehle Photo Rag 188, Dot Gain
= 100%, Gamma = 1.00.

The results are only better at highlights (no visible dots), but I get
microbanding elswhere. And as I said before; way too flat. I'm printing from
Photoshop 6.0, Mode = Grayscale, Profile = Gamma 2.2. Is there anything
wrong in these settings?

Regards,
Loris.

----- Original Message -----

From: "Richard Sintchak" <richard@...>
To: "Loris Medici" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 8:34 AM
Subject: Re[2]: [Digital BW] Cone Announces New Blacks


> Loris,
>
> Do not use the Unsupported Ink setting in PiezoBW driver even though
> you are.  I use the ConeTech Ink setting for my 1160 and FS-N inks and
> the results are MUCH better.

Just to check - in the top l/h side of the plugin is a scroll down window
for 'inksets' - has that got the cone inks selected - I've never had the
output you describe.

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Loris Medici" <loris.medici@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Digital BW] Cone Announces New Blacks


>
> Richard, thanks for the reply...
>
> I'm not using "unsupported ink" setting. I used Hahnemuehle Photo Rag
188gsm
> to experiment the plug-in\ufffd
> Other settings are as follows: Profile = Hahnemuehle Photo Rag 188, Dot
Gain
> = 100%, Gamma = 1.00.
>
> The results are only better at highlights (no visible dots), but I get
> microbanding elswhere. And as I said before; way too flat. I'm printing
from
> Photoshop 6.0, Mode = Grayscale, Profile = Gamma 2.2. Is there anything
> wrong in these settings?
>
> Regards,
> Loris.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Sintchak" <richard@...>
> To: "Loris Medici" <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 8:34 AM
> Subject: Re[2]: [Digital BW] Cone Announces New Blacks
>
>
> > Loris,
> >
> > Do not use the Unsupported Ink setting in PiezoBW driver even though
> > you are.  I use the ConeTech Ink setting for my 1160 and FS-N inks and
> > the results are MUCH better.
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
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Yes, it was set right as you described...

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Julian Thomas" <julianthomas@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Digital BW] Cone Announces New Blacks


> Just to check - in the top l/h side of the plugin is a scroll down window
> for 'inksets' - has that got the cone inks selected - I've never had the
> output you describe.
> 
> Julian

Interesting - I've used the Randall workflow to cure banding with the piezo
and got good results, although shadow detail is better with the piezo. I
tend to use the Orwell profile with all Hahnemuhle papers as it seems to
give more contrast. The only other thing I can think of is to make sure that
the 'better/best' dialogue is set to 'best'.

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Loris Medici" <loris.medici@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Digital BW] Cone Announces New Blacks


>
> Yes, it was set right as you described...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Julian Thomas" <julianthomas@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:19 AM
> Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Digital BW] Cone Announces New Blacks
>
>
> > Just to check - in the top l/h side of the plugin is a scroll down
window
> > for 'inksets' - has that got the cone inks selected - I've never had the
> > output you describe.
> >
> > Julian
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Loris,

easy test: - print out the 21step file and check the result. In my 
case the setup for PhotoRag 188 was unusable but for 308 it was OK. 
So I use PhotoRag 308 instead with good results.

Martin



>Yes, it was set right as you described...
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Julian Thomas" <julianthomas@...>
>To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:19 AM
>Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Digital BW] Cone Announces New Blacks
>
>
>>  Just to check - in the top l/h side of the plugin is a scroll down window
>>  for 'inksets' - has that got the cone inks selected - I've never had the
>>  output you describe.
>>
>  > Julian
>

--

Loris,

way too flat? Could it be that the gamma 2.2 setting is way to hard so that
you see a good image on the monitor but for the piezo it is too flat. Have
you tried to match the monitor and the output with the 21-step wedge via the
individual dot gain curve adjustment?

Peter

Loris wrote

> The results are only better at highlights (no visible dots), but I get
> microbanding elswhere. And as I said before; way too flat. I'm
> printing from
> Photoshop 6.0, Mode = Grayscale, Profile = Gamma 2.2. Is there anything
> wrong in these settings?

Err... Wasn't the purpose of the plug-in to provide a plug-and-play
workflow/profiles? (BTW I calibrate my monitor once a month using
ColorVision Monitor Spyder w/PhotoCal)

OK, I'll try your suggestion and let you know... Thanks.

But I doubt (and don't understand how) that this will cure the microbanding
issue.

Regards,
Loris.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Baumbach" <info@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Cone Announces New Blacks


> Loris,
>
> way too flat? Could it be that the gamma 2.2 setting is way to hard so
that
> you see a good image on the monitor but for the piezo it is too flat. Have
> you tried to match the monitor and the output with the 21-step wedge via
the

> individual dot gain curve adjustment?
>
> Peter

Loris wrote:
> Err... Wasn't the purpose of the plug-in to provide a plug-and-play
> workflow/profiles? (BTW I calibrate my monitor once a month using
> ColorVision Monitor Spyder w/PhotoCal)

me too, but as far as I understand the piezo plug in does not use icc
profiling. You have to match your monitor image to the print visually...


> OK, I'll try your suggestion and let you know... Thanks.
>
> But I doubt (and don't understand how) that this will cure the
> microbanding
> issue.

no, it does not. I have the same microbanding problem AND posterization in
the midtones AND "harsh" transitions from the midtones to the darker tones
with grainy 35mm Tri-X negatives. So I am now using the Randall workflow and
get impressive results without microbanding, without posterization and the
highlights are dotless!

Peter

Hi Peter,

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Baumbach" <info@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:52 AM
Subject: AW: [Digital BW] Cone Announces New Blacks


> > ...
> > But I doubt (and don't understand how) that this will cure the
> > microbanding
> > issue.
>
> no, it does not. I have the same microbanding problem AND posterization in
> the midtones AND "harsh" transitions from the midtones to the darker tones
> with grainy 35mm Tri-X negatives. So I am now using the Randall workflow
and
> get impressive results without microbanding, without posterization and the
> highlights are dotless!

Sounds good, I'll try this also (not that the current results using the
Woolf wf are disturbing to my eyes). Thanks.

Regards,
Loris.