Digital BW, The Print

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Cone" <piezobw@...>
To: <piezography3000@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 1:52 AM
Subject: [piezoBW] New Piezography Products


> Piezography News
>
>
> At PhotoPlus Expo on October 31, we are releasing all 4 PiezoTone hue gray
> sets and 2 new Piezography black ink positions. This will bring the total
of
> black inks to three. Additionally, ImagePrint by ColorByte Software will
be
> the first software product to support all of the Piezography inks. There
is
> support for the 1280/1290, 7000, 7500, 9000, 9500. Add'l printers are
> planned. Cone Editions Press, Ltd will be providing the profile support,
and
> it will be a daunting task considering how many papers are now on the
market
> and how many inks we have (4 PiezoTone hues x 3 blacks = 12)
>
> The PiezoTone hue gray sets are Warm Neutral, Selenium Tone, Cool Neutral,
> and Carbon Sepia. They comprise three gray dilutions available in 3 or 5
ink
> sets. They are compatible with each other and with any of the 3 blacks.
The
> PiezoTone gray sets are made from 100% pigments without the use of dye or
> metal complex. They are all carbon based with additional pigments added
for
> color. The Carbon Sepia is pure carbon without add'l pigments. If you
liked
> the warm faded look of the PiezographyBW inks (now Sundance Neutral Warm),
> you will like this ink very much as it has the warmth but without the
> density loss. Also the ink has been shaped to maintain the same
directional
> facets when dried down. There is nil metamerism and the ink can pick up
> subtle hue differences depending upon paper. Very platinum like. Cool
> Neutral is just off neutral to the cool side and does not have the blue
look
> of the other cool neutrals.
>
> The choice of blacks is going to expand to include inks which are suitable
> for all types of quad printing. We did not design the original black for
use
> other than PiezographyBW software. That software uses a very small amount
of
> black in in proportion to the darkest gray (cyan position). The original
> PIezoTone black has a very high Optical Density which was the highest
> available at the time of its release. When printed with PiezographyBW
> software it was not expected to produce any fade results which were
> unacceptable. That is, they were expected to be similar to other inks on
the
> market. However, although we have not seen any printed samples of rapid
> fading other than in pictures posted on the web, it is clear to us that it
> is very unwise to experiment with workflows that the user is uncertain
about
> how it prints the individual ink components.
>
> Reports were made earlier in which it was noted that the black faded when
> left on its own. We posted pictures which showed that the performance of
the
> inks were acceptable when used with Piezography. Paul Roark who has been
> doing enormous amounts of testing and which we are very thankful for has
> published data which shows that they are not acceptable when used on their
> own. Using them with workflows is somewhere in between depending upon the
> workflow apparently. Paul Roark found:
>
> PiezoTone Grays have a fading rate below 2% which is not discernable to
the
> human eye, and the similar ink positions of MIS-FS inks have a fade rate
of
> 18% and the MIS-FSN inks have a fade rate of 16.9% which are very
> discernible.
>
> His tests show that using the PIezoTone black position only results in a
11%
> fade rate and 5.8% and 3.5% respectively for the two MIS-Blacks.
>
> There wasn't any data published for the results of the black when used
with
> PiezographyBW other than comparative with MIS inks using photographs. The
> PiezoTones do not change hue except in the black position which warm fades
> while the similar ink FS completely fades warm.
>
> There are obviously different strengths when all the inks are compared,
and
> while none seem satisfactory on their own - combinations of products from
> the two companies are winning favor.
>
> We introduced PiezoTone black because we were under the impression that
the
> majority of our users wanted a black which approached silver print and
were
> willing to have fade to an acceptable carbon base black - rather than a
> black which did not fade at all but was less dark than current solutions.
>
> At the time it was not possible to produce from 100% pigment a black which
> was dark enough.
>
> When we analyzed MIS-FSN by thin layer chromaticity testing it revealed
10%
> AZO dyes and this would account for the 3.5 - 5.8% fades in Roark's tests.
>
> We gave our chemists the task of finding a way to make Carbon black denser
> in Optical Desnity. We wanted a black at least as black as the MIS-FSN and
> the old Piezo black - but we wanted it to have the performance of our
> PiezoTone grays. That meant no dye no metal. They were able to produce a
new
> carbon black formula with this property by carefully shaping the carbon
> particles. The result is a greater density and no need for dye or metal
> complex to achieve a black similar to MIS.
>
> By the way the ingredient we used in the original PiezoTone black is a
metal
> complex not usually found in inks. Its property is extremely black mass
> tone.
>
> Now that we have three blacks available I will detail their properties and
> their attraction to users, or what is their strong points in difference to
> each other which would make a user choose one over another.
>
> The original Black is for users who want a maximum black which nears
Silver
> Print OD. If used with PiezographyBW it will have fade characteristics
which
> are about congruent with our old black and other blacks on the market. It
> will fade to its carbon content as the metal complex stuff that makes it
so
> black eventually fades. Its initial OD may make it appear to fade worse
than
> other blacks. But the ending points are very similar when used correctly.
We
> believe that this ink gives the greatest combined longevity and dMAX
> currently available. But its selling point is that it is blacker than
> anything else on the market and it has good fading characteristics. Some
> users are experiencing problems with this ink of which the majority appear
> to be from using it with RGB workflows which print great amounts of black
in
> conjunction with the yellow ink position. PiezographyBW software prints
only
> small amounts of black and not in conjunction to yellow, rather over the
> dark position (cyan). Other users have commented to us in regards to
> PiezographyBW software but it is not congruent with what we have
> experienced. We do not think that this ink should be used with workflows
> unless the workflow does not print large amounts of black ink.
>
> Experiment with this ink responsibly. We are not in a position to advise
> which workflow is acceptable because we really do not support them. Before
> PiezographyBW we partitioned the inks in about the same way using a CMYK
> driver. Before that we created input/output tables for use with ConeTech
> QuadBlack inks for IRIS. Our input/output tables were published for IRIS
as
> far back as 1994. We only know one way to print quad inks, a short black
> over receding bell shaped curves in the cmy channels (if you can visualize
> that you should be able to understand the output table). Now go make some
> workflows which do it right....
>
>
> New carbon pigment made available to Piezography which is shaped
differently
> than previous carbon pigments will allow for greater density and hence
> greater optical density. We should have this pigment exclusive for a year
> (maybe a year and a half) and there is great optimism that we should be
able
> to further increase OD through continued shaping r&d. The two new black
inks
> based on this pigment follow:
>
> New Piezography MuseumBlack is pure carbon, no additional dyes or metal
> complex. It is designed to stay at the same Optical Density (how dark it
> is). In that regard it is like the PiezoTone Grays. The PiezoTone Grays
fade
> less than a couple %, which is not detectable to the human eye. So this
> would be a rock hard combination. But it is not very black. It will start
> out about as black for example as the MIS and Sundance Blacks. But the MIS
> and Sundance blacks fade because of their dye content.  MusuemBlack will
not
> fade to a discernible degree. So in the end MusuemBlack will appear to
have
> a much greater Optical Density than other black ink products. That will be
> its selling point. We can do it without dye or metal complex now. Great
> breakthrough. This ink is compatible therefore with any type of workflow
and
> should make a great black ink only black.
>
> New Piezography PortfolioBlack will end up at about the same OD as
> MuseumBlack or just  higher after its small amount of metal complex fades
> out, but it will start off with a much blacker OD. It is in between
> MuseumBlack needs and Original Black needs. It will perform better than
the
> original black but not be as black. Its final fade point is still being
> tested and it may end up to be an exciting ink. Lets wait for the data and
> compare then.
>
> If we extend this black even further with metal complex as we did with the
> original black, we may see OD readings in the 2.1 and higher range. This
may
> open up a whole new can of whoopie. We are already testing formulas like
> this with Xenon and in a few months may make some announcements which
would
> open up new opportunities in optical density but with fade. We are hoping
> the fade like original black will be to levels congruent with the
underlying
> carbon. In the case of this ink, the underlying carbon can now be made
> denser. So an improvement in the waiting. Maybe. We'll see whether
extending
> it is possible to make the OD worth the density loss. A version of this
> black might make for a startling exhibition black where dramatic effect
> unavailable in silver print is desired. The new carbon black is not as
brown
> as the blacks used in all the other inks on the market - so there may be
> great hopes that this product can have an interesting future. We'll keep
you
> updated.
>
>
> It will be interesting for us here to see how users react when presented
> with three black choices that allow them to choose between aesthetics and
> longevity. 72% of the users we polled answered they would rather have a
> black that approached silver print and had fade characteristics to our
older
> dMax then a black which would not fade but was not very black. We had only
> polled a small % of the user base and I think I will be surprised if the
> Museum Black becomes the most popular. I think it will be a toss up
between
> the other 2. Perhaps we can keep a running poll going here in the next few
> months as users try them all and decide... The running poll lets users go
in
> and change their mind as they begin to experiment.
>
> We will be supplying on or about PhotoPlus Expo complete Xenon data sets
for
> fading with all of our current and past ink products in comparison with
> competitive products for analysis.
>
> There really is a lot going on and no one in Topsham has a minute to
spare.
> I am going to have to go back to my schedule. But I will read this list
for
> the remainder of the week. I will be traveling Thursday but should be able
> to get on again in the evenings on Thur and Fri. So if there are questions
I
> will try and answer. I am sorry that neither myself or Bill has had time
for
> the lists. We are though answering e-mails sent to us directly. But this
> should get out to many of our users. A mailing is planned with all the
> printed ink samples and longevity testing data to our registered user
base.
>
>
>
> Jon Cone
>
>
>
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>
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>
>
>

I appreciate Jon's in depth response to the issues that have been 
raging here.  I have used the PT Sel inks with the PiezoBW plugin and 
CIS on a 1280 with good results for about six weeks.  

A key point from Jon's message is that the PT inks have been 
developed specifically for the PiezoBW driver.  While it is important 
for current digital BW printing practioner's to expirement, slamming 
a product that it being used outside its recommended workflows, 
software, etc., is not really fair. The key is:  Does it work when 
used as recommended?  While the new PT inks don't satisfy everyone 
and may have some issues, IMO they are moving the art of digital BW 
printing forward and we would not have come this far without Cone's 
contributions.

Val Brunell
 
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Thomas Fors" <tom@f...> 
wrote:

> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jon Cone" <piezobw@c...>
> To: <piezography3000@y...>
> Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 1:52 AM
> Subject: [piezoBW] New Piezography Products
> 
> 
> > Piezography News
> >
>