Digital BW, The Print

A couple of weeks ago the San Francisco Branch of the list got
together in downtown San Francisco to eat donuts, show off prints,
bitch and moan about ink fading and printers clogging, and otherwise
enjoy each others company.

Along the way there was some discussion of various digital cameras,
including the new Foveon/Sigma camera.  I mentioned that I knew of an
upcoming talk as part of Stephen Johnson's Lecture Series by Dick
Lyon, one of Foveon's head geeks.  Several people expressed interest
and I promised to send information, but (of course) didn't collect
addresses.  So, sorry for the wide distribution, but if you're in the
S.F. Bay area and interested in the device, this might be a good
evening.  Here's the information (clipped from Stephen's newsletter,
with his blessing):

----------------------------------------------------------------
PHOTOGRAPHY LECTURE SERIES

The Foveon X3: The Scientist and the Photographer

Richard Lyon, Chief Scientist, Foveon, Inc. and
Stephen Johnson, Photographer 

Wednesday, October 9, 2002, 7-8:30pm
Location: Stephen Johnson Photography Studios

Join us us for a first look at a remarkable new digital photography
technology.

Last February Foveon announced the first full resolution color instant
capture camera, using their X3 Sensor.  It caused quite a stir,
sparking everything from shock to admiration and disbelief.  At
Photokina in Germany last week, Sigma began showing the shipping
version of the camera (due later this month) with a surprising price
of $1800.

Steve has been consulting with Foveon for many years and has been
testing the X3 technology for over a year.  Steve and Dick will talk
about their perspectives on the camera and this breakthrough
technology.  Most of the time will be given to Mr. Lyon's presentation
on the technology.

http://www.sjphoto.com/lecture-series_X3.html

Admission: $5.
Admission price can be applied to any purchase during the evening.

RSVP is required as seating is limited.
Call (650) 355-7507 or email michelle@...
----------------------------------------------------------------

If/when you RSVP, mention that you heard about it from George....

g.

Who's got Sigma lenses laying around? That's the only camera with this Foveon chip.

Probably a better bet to get the new Kodak 14n wich uses all the Nikon lenses.
13 megapixel full frame for a file size in the upper -30 Megabyte range.

John Luke

John Luke writes:
 > Who's got Sigma lenses laying around? That's the only camera with this
 > Foveon chip.
 > 
 > Probably a better bet to get the new Kodak 14n wich uses all the Nikon
 > lenses.  13 megapixel full frame for a file size in the upper -30
 > Megabyte range.

Yeah, if you're looking at buying a camera *now*, and the Kodak does
what you need, and it's a the right price point, and [insert all of
the rational and irrational criteria for buying a particular tool
here], then you're probably right.  It's "street price" is rumored
(http://www.robgalbraith.com/diginews/2002-09/2002_09_24_14n.html) to
be over $4000.00 though, so it's not quite the same niche as the
Sigma, which is supposed to *list* at $1800
(http://www.dpreview.com/news/0209/02092001sigmasd9price.asp).

And anyway, size isn't everything.

The Foveon technology isn't Sigma dependent and it's a neat idea.  It
remains to be seen (in a *big* way) whether it'll succeed on it's
merits or not [or it's marketing for that matter, remember VHS
vs. BETA].  I think that if the chip matures well, it's likely you'll
find it in big-name bodies.

But, in any case, I don't think that a talk about the Sigma camera by
itself would be all that interesting.  I think that Wednesday *will*
be interesting though, because it's about an emerging technology for
digital capture that tries to solve a basic problem (bayer patterning,
etc...)  with the existing approaches.

<disclaimer>
And like I've said before, Steve's a friend of mine....
</disclaimer>

g.

Given the long time since announcement, there are probably some 
technical problems they are having to overcome. Silicon has an 
interesting property - depth in material = color filter. Given that 
Foveon is using this property the tolerances are very tight. This means 
one of two things, a) there is extensive filtering of the chips using 
only those that meet those tolerances ( and decreasing the yield ) or b) 
compensation will have to be determined on a chip by chip basis and 
processing employed in camera to compensate for color offsets.

In either case a lot of "touch time": is required. We are not talking 
about one'ies/two'ies where the Department of Defense will pay for this. 
We are talking about a consumer market where price is king and where the 
3 megs is already close to obsolete even if you multiply it by 3.

So I think the jury is still out on this one.

Truman

George Hartzell wrote:

> John Luke writes:
> > Who's got Sigma lenses laying around? That's the only camera with this
> > Foveon chip.
> >
> > Probably a better bet to get the new Kodak 14n wich uses all the Nikon
> > lenses.  13 megapixel full frame for a file size in the upper -30
> > Megabyte range.
>
> Yeah, if you're looking at buying a camera *now*, and the Kodak does
> what you need, and it's a the right price point, and [insert all of
> the rational and irrational criteria for buying a particular tool
> here], then you're probably right.  It's "street price" is rumored
> (http://www.robgalbraith.com/diginews/2002-09/2002_09_24_14n.html) 
> <http://www.robgalbraith.com/diginews/2002-09/2002_09_24_14n.html%29> to
> be over $4000.00 though, so it's not quite the same niche as the
> Sigma, which is supposed to *list* at $1800
> (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0209/02092001sigmasd9price.asp). 
> <http://www.dpreview.com/news/0209/02092001sigmasd9price.asp%29.>
>
> And anyway, size isn't everything.
>
> The Foveon technology isn't Sigma dependent and it's a neat idea.  It
> remains to be seen (in a *big* way) whether it'll succeed on it's
> merits or not [or it's marketing for that matter, remember VHS
> vs. BETA].  I think that if the chip matures well, it's likely you'll
> find it in big-name bodies.
>
> But, in any case, I don't think that a talk about the Sigma camera by
> itself would be all that interesting.  I think that Wednesday *will*
> be interesting though, because it's about an emerging technology for
> digital capture that tries to solve a basic problem (bayer patterning,
> etc...)  with the existing approaches.
>
> <disclaimer>
> And like I've said before, Steve's a friend of mine....
> </disclaimer>
>
> g.
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Canon is coming out with a 11.1 megapixel camera next year. Reasonalbly priced.

Don't dismiss sigma lenses unless you've actually tried them. You would
be amazed at how sharp they are.  NOT equal in build quality to the big
boys, but their new pro line lenses are absolutely equal to the Canon EF
lenses. In a couple cases, they are equal to the "L" lenses in sharpness.

Jerry





John Luke wrote:

> 
> Who's got Sigma lenses laying around? That's the only camera with this Foveon chip.
> 
> Probably a better bet to get the new Kodak 14n wich uses all the Nikon lenses.
> 13 megapixel full frame for a file size in the upper -30 Megabyte range.
> 
> John Luke
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

On Monday, October 7, 2002, at 07:27  PM, Jerry Olson wrote:

> Canon is coming out with a 11.1 megapixel camera next year. 
> Reasonalbly priced.
>

I hope so Jerry.  The $9,000 price tag for the new 1Ds is out of reach 
for me.

It won't be a top of the line body, but a continuation of the D60, which
I just love. Also, with the Foveon Chip coming out soon, the other
camera makers are going to have to offer something to keep up with the competition!
I am now doing great panoramas with The D60 that rival the noblex. It's
amazing what pictures you see when you are thinking panorama.  And its
so easy to stitch them together in Photoshop! 
Jerry



Carl Schofield wrote:

> 
> On Monday, October 7, 2002, at 07:27  PM, Jerry Olson wrote:
> 
> > Canon is coming out with a 11.1 megapixel camera next year.
> > Reasonalbly priced.
> >
> 
> I hope so Jerry.  The $9,000 price tag for the new 1Ds is out of reach
> for me.
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/