Digital BW, The Print

I created the following poll on the Piezography group relating to black ink
positions in regards to longevity and aesthetics. Please come over and chose
your choice.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/piezography3000/polls




A - If we deliver you a black with the same
performance as the PiezoTone grays but
with a OD that starts slightly less than
current competing black inks, but does not
fade and therefore ends higher than them.
Would you use that black exclusively even
though at the onset it was paler than current
blacks?

B - If you knew that even another black was
available which was slightly darker at the
onset and yet faded to the lower OD of A, but
not as dramatically as PIezoTone black
because the starting OD was less, would
you rather use that because after all it is
what everyone has been used to?



o Visually higher OD at onset with fade to point of competing inks.

o If you lean towards B,  are you willing to sacrifice non-fade in order to
have better aesthetics at the onset with a moderately higher black OD?

o If you lean towards B,  are you willing to sacrifice non-fade in order to
have better aesthetics at the onset with a significant higher black OD?

o I don't care about fade - I need it to look black as a silver print and
that's that! If it lasts a month it suits my purposes.
 
o I fall somewhere in between it looking great and lasting a long time. I am
willing to display my prints in low light, or have my clients treat them as
watercolors and other sensitive fine art are treated.

o No fade - slightly less OD at onset with higher OD after competing inks
fade. 



--------------------------------
may your highlights be dotless
and your tonal scale smooth,


Jon Cone
jon@...
Piezography(tm) brand software and inks
http://www.piezography.com
--------------------------------

>I created the following poll on the Piezography group relating to black ink
>positions in regards to longevity and aesthetics. Please come over and chose
>your choice.

I just voted.

What seems to be getting lost in the translation is that there is 
fading and there is fading, but that the degree of fade is not the 
only issue.

Given the apparent ability of the Epson Ultrachrome Inks and current 
printers to print neutral grayscale, the best argument for a quad (or 
hex) black ink solution would seem to be not simply less fade, but 
potentially less differential ink fading from a grayscale inkset 
which would cause color tonal shifts over time.

Dmax is not the only issue, as any platinum printer will attest. The 
PiezoTone K problem is not the degree of density fade (as the OD 
tests confirm), but the "warming" of the black in contrast to the 
tonal stability of the grays.

The "warming" of the original Piezo (Sundance) grays was tolerable to 
many as normal "curing" because the final state was pleasant in a 
sepia kind of way.

The "warming" of the PiezoTone K is not acceptable precisely because 
the grays don't warm. The clearest analogy would be the orange 
"gas-fade" of the Epson 1200 inks. If any one ink in a set shifts 
color while the others don't, the effect is much more more 
objectionable than a slight linear loss of density.

Museum Black for me, all the way.




-- 
Bruce C. Kinch
Associate Professor of Photography
The Art Institute of Boston at Lesley University

Hi Bruce,

Good post.  I see another issue...the compressing and combining of the tonal
scale.  If the dark end of the scale fades, and some of the tones then match
the middle of the scale (which they should), you're combining tones, meaning
there is now no separation in tones that used to have a separation.  Also,
you are losing the high end tones relativity to the lower tones.  The
careful tonal curves set-up to make the print in the first place, are now
really for naught.

How do we deal with that?  Should we adjust curves to allow a gap in the
tonal curve actually printed, so the inks don't overlap when the print is
faded?  Should we ask for inks that all fade equally?

Regards,

Austin

> >I created the following poll on the Piezography group relating
> to black ink
> >positions in regards to longevity and aesthetics. Please come
> over and chose
> >your choice.
>
> I just voted.
>
> What seems to be getting lost in the translation is that there is
> fading and there is fading, but that the degree of fade is not the
> only issue.
>
> Given the apparent ability of the Epson Ultrachrome Inks and current
> printers to print neutral grayscale, the best argument for a quad (or
> hex) black ink solution would seem to be not simply less fade, but
> potentially less differential ink fading from a grayscale inkset
> which would cause color tonal shifts over time.
>
> Dmax is not the only issue, as any platinum printer will attest. The
> PiezoTone K problem is not the degree of density fade (as the OD
> tests confirm), but the "warming" of the black in contrast to the
> tonal stability of the grays.
>
> The "warming" of the original Piezo (Sundance) grays was tolerable to
> many as normal "curing" because the final state was pleasant in a
> sepia kind of way.
>
> The "warming" of the PiezoTone K is not acceptable precisely because
> the grays don't warm. The clearest analogy would be the orange
> "gas-fade" of the Epson 1200 inks. If any one ink in a set shifts
> color while the others don't, the effect is much more more
> objectionable than a slight linear loss of density.
>
> Museum Black for me, all the way.

I strongly recommend that all the inkjet users visit Jon's poll and cast a
vote. You don't often get an opportunity to have a say in a new product you
may use.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/piezography3000/surveys?id=989966

Martin Wesley




----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Cone" <piezobw@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 7:24 AM
Subject: [Digital BW] Poll on Piezography group


> I created the following poll on the Piezography group relating to black
ink
> positions in regards to longevity and aesthetics. Please come over and
chose
> your choice.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/piezography3000/polls
>
>
>
>
> A - If we deliver you a black with the same
> performance as the PiezoTone grays but
> with a OD that starts slightly less than
> current competing black inks, but does not
> fade and therefore ends higher than them.
> Would you use that black exclusively even
> though at the onset it was paler than current
> blacks?
>
> B - If you knew that even another black was
> available which was slightly darker at the
> onset and yet faded to the lower OD of A, but
> not as dramatically as PIezoTone black
> because the starting OD was less, would
> you rather use that because after all it is
> what everyone has been used to?
>
>
>
> o Visually higher OD at onset with fade to point of competing inks.
>
> o If you lean towards B,  are you willing to sacrifice non-fade in order
to
> have better aesthetics at the onset with a moderately higher black OD?
>
> o If you lean towards B,  are you willing to sacrifice non-fade in order
to
> have better aesthetics at the onset with a significant higher black OD?
>
> o I don't care about fade - I need it to look black as a silver print and
> that's that! If it lasts a month it suits my purposes.
>
> o I fall somewhere in between it looking great and lasting a long time. I
am
> willing to display my prints in low light, or have my clients treat them
as
> watercolors and other sensitive fine art are treated.
>
> o No fade - slightly less OD at onset with higher OD after competing inks
> fade.
>
>
>
> --------------------------------
> may your highlights be dotless
> and your tonal scale smooth,
>
>
> Jon Cone
> jon@...
> Piezography(tm) brand software and inks
> http://www.piezography.com
> --------------------------------
>
>
>
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