Digital BW, The Print

I have an opportunity to buy a working used 7500 running Epson inks.

**Should I buy it?

I had hoped to run Jon Cone's Piezo on it, but now I find that the RIP
is no longer available?

**Is this true?

**Are there other options for this printer?

**What kind of pricing is reasonable for this printer?


Thanks,
Ken

Ken,

I'd say, on principle, buy it (if it's in good working order). It's the last generation 
of non-chipped machines and a real workhorse. ImagePrint works well with it 
(Mac/PC), but you have to figure the cost of that license. Also, R9 may still 
have the so-called piezoPro RIP available unbundled (PC only).  They are the 
developers for it. Whatever is or becomes available will likely include this 
generation of machines where you can still use third party inks. Mono inksets 
are easy to find between InkjetMall and MIS in carts or bulk.

Based on a refurb/warranted price of around $3,000 I'd say around $1500 
give or take a few would be nice. Depending on condition, I'd even entertain 
close to $2000. If you have to pay for a serious service call, expect $700 - 
1000. Other considerations would be shipping costs and convenience of 
delivery, of course. A stand is included in the refurb price above. Alone it costs 
about $200. I prefer having one, others do not.

Good luck!....


Antonis




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "photon_arts" <photon@w...> wrote:

> I have an opportunity to buy a working used 7500 running Epson inks.
> 
> **Should I buy it?
> 
> I had hoped to run Jon Cone's Piezo on it, but now I find that the RIP
> is no longer available?
> 
> **Is this true?
> 
> **Are there other options for this printer?
> 
> **What kind of pricing is reasonable for this printer?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Ken

-Antonis,

Thanks for your detailed reply.

I went and looked at the R9, but it looked like just the Cone SW that
I already have for my 3000, didn't list the larger printers.

The 7500 owner is asking $2000 without stand which I think is high,
since a new 7600 is only 50% more.

Do you know what's up with the RIP? Will it work? I thought that there
was a special one for the lagre format printers.

ken

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "photon_arts" 
<photon@w...> wrote:
> -Antonis,
> 
> Thanks for your detailed reply.
> 
> I went and looked at the R9, but it looked like just the Cone SW 
that
> I already have for my 3000, didn't list the larger printers.
> 
> The 7500 owner is asking $2000 without stand which I think is 
high,
> since a new 7600 is only 50% more.
> 
> Do you know what's up with the RIP? Will it work? I thought that 
there
> was a special one for the lagre format printers.
> 
> ken

Hi Ken,

I'm also looking at buying a 7500.   Ebay has had a few sell
lately.  There's a place selling refurbs with Buy-It-Now of $2300
(no stand).  I think the last used one went for about $1800.

The guy that's selling the one I'm considering has been using
Imageprint with the standard Epson inks, but  I definitely want
to run some B&W ink set -- most likely MIS VM Sepia.
I think Imageprint would be about $1500 and you still need
profiles, too.  I'm going to go with the ordinary epson driver to
start with and since I'm on a Mac hopefully I could migrate to
the Gimp driver that allows direct access to each ink.  The 
last part is very hypothetical for now, but I think it has potential.

Roy

Thanks for the input Roy.

I've just started looking into to this, Imageprint doesn't come with
profiles? Sheesh.

I know that the 7000/7500 has a good  reputation with Piezo, but I'm
beginning to think that it's quite a price jump from my finally
working 3000.

Gotta keep looking for feedback on this purchase. Curiously, the Piezo
crowd hasn't given any response as yet.

thanks again,
ken

> I went and looked at the R9, but it looked like just the Cone SW that
> I already have for my 3000, didn't list the larger printers.

ken,

they list them, but I don't see them selling it on ebay. Are you on Windows? 
Email them at info@... and see what they say.

Also, contact Colorbyte directly regarding imageprint. You want to make sure 
they support the inks you are planning to use. The program comes with 
profiles, and they are offering to make quad profiles for your chosen paper. 
However, this  assumes that you are using an inkset they already support. 
MIS- VM is not one of them, I believe.

Another RIP  for Windows is PosterPrint by Ergosoft but it doesn't claim 
support for quads.

Considering that the 7500 is old head technology (large droplets), I would 
think it would be a waste to use it with the Epson driver for quad tones - you 
may see more dots in the wrong place on the tonal scale than you'd like. 
Either R9 or Imageprint would be a must. Keep in mind that the former is tied 
to the Sundance inks, while IP is open to new inksets such as Piezotones.



> 
> The 7500 owner is asking $2000 without stand which I think is high,
> since a new 7600 is only 50% more.

It's high, but you can't quite compare to the 7600 . You can't do quads with the 
new Epsons until the chip code has been cracked. Your best option for a 7600 
would still be to add a RIP and then hope you like the way Ultrachromes 
render grayscales. A whole other animal.


Antonis

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Antonis Ricos" 
<antonisphoto@y...> wrote:
> > I went and looked at the R9, but it looked like just the Cone 
SW that
> > I already have for my 3000, didn't list the larger printers.
> 
> ken,
> 
> they list them, but I don't see them selling it on ebay. Are you on 
Windows? 
> Email them at info@b... and see what they say.
> 
> Also, contact Colorbyte directly regarding imageprint. You want 
to make sure 
> they support the inks you are planning to use. The program 
comes with 
> profiles, and they are offering to make quad profiles for your 
chosen paper. 
> However, this  assumes that you are using an inkset they 
already support. 
> MIS- VM is not one of them, I believe.
> 
> Another RIP  for Windows is PosterPrint by Ergosoft but it 
doesn't claim 
> support for quads.
> 
> Considering that the 7500 is old head technology (large 
droplets), I would 
> think it would be a waste to use it with the Epson driver for 
quad tones - you 

Antonis,

I've been happy with my 1160 running MIS VM Inks and the
Epson driver with Roark curves & Workflow.   Isn't the 7500 at
least as good as the 1160 quality wise?  The more I look for
info it seems that little has been done with the 7500 and quad-
tones.  There aren't any curves available and it looks like I may
have to fill my own cartridges.  Do the 7000 or 9000 carts work
with the 7500?  Going the IP route almost doubles the price
and it loses the variable tone possibility.

Roy

> may see more dots in the wrong place on the tonal scale than 
you'd like. 
> Either R9 or Imageprint would be a must. Keep in mind that the 
former is tied 
> to the Sundance inks, while IP is open to new inksets such as 
Piezotones.

> 
> 
> Antonis

--- "Roy Harrington" <roy@h...> wrote:

> I've been happy with my 1160 running MIS VM Inks and the
> Epson driver with Roark curves & Workflow. 

I have a 7000, which I believe has coarser heads than the 7500, 
and with the MIS VM inkset and Roark curves it delivers a 
grayscale that's pretty close to dotless, in my view.

Charles Rozier

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "charlesrozier" 
<charlesrozier@y...> wrote:
> --- "Roy Harrington" <roy@h...> wrote:
> 
> > I've been happy with my 1160 running MIS VM Inks and the
> > Epson driver with Roark curves & Workflow. 
> 
> I have a 7000, which I believe has coarser heads than the 
7500, 
> and with the MIS VM inkset and Roark curves it delivers a 
> grayscale that's pretty close to dotless, in my view.
> 
> Charles Rozier

Thanks Charles.  That's what I'm hoping for.  Have you used
or seen prints from a 1160 to compare your 7000 output to?

Roy

I've been following this thread about the 7500.

What value does a 7500 have over, say, an 1160 besides allowing a larger 
print?

Was the $3000 printer built with better quality control than the $300 printer 
and, therefore, will not suffer from micro banding? (Yes, I've been trying to fix 
that problem with my 1160.) Is it easier to clean by methods other than the 
Epson method of running ink through it?

Michael

I know the exact subject is off topic, but this person/web site has been
brought up in this group a lot...and I've always questioned his
bias/objectivity/ability...and the public comments that follow, seem to do
the same...

Here is a review of the "renowned" Michael Reichmann, of "Luminous
Landscape" fame (yes, the same guy who claimed that the D-30 equal film
;-)...

http://www.photo.net/equipment/hasselblad/h1/index.html

A number of people have touted his web site, but when he reviews the H1, in
public, and people are allowed to respond...note, he doesn't get good
remarks on his reviewing ability...and not just by me ;-)

Austin

I don't get it.
The review and responses seem reasonably balanced.
I guess it's unfortunate that Mr. Reichmann doesn't share
Mr. Franklin's passion for good 'bokeh'.
-JimD

At 11:30 PM 11/2/2002 -0500, Austin Franklin wrote:

>I know the exact subject is off topic, but this person/web site has been
>brought up in this group a lot...and I've always questioned his
>bias/objectivity/ability...and the public comments that follow, seem to do
>the same...
>
>Here is a review of the "renowned" Michael Reichmann, of "Luminous
>Landscape" fame (yes, the same guy who claimed that the D-30 equal film
>;-)...
>
>http://www.photo.net/equipment/hasselblad/h1/index.html
>
>A number of people have touted his web site, but when he reviews the H1, in
>public, and people are allowed to respond...note, he doesn't get good
>remarks on his reviewing ability...and not just by me ;-)
>
>Austin
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and 
>other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
>unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same 
>page.
>
>Please follow these basic guidelines:
>- Include your full name with your message.
>- Include the address of your website, if you have one.
>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep 
>them short.
>- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
>"flames."
>- Complete your Yahoo profile.
>- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various 
>resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--- "Roy Harrington" <roy@h...> wrote:

> Have you used or seen prints from a 1160 to compare your
> 7000 output to?

Well, actually I had an 1160 with quads and CFS but 
unfortunately its paper feed failed while I was initially calibrating 
it on thick stocks.  Got worried about its feed system with thick 
papers for which it wasn't really designed, and eventually went 
for the 7000 which can handle up to posterboard. Never got to 
see final prints from the 1160.  The downside of the 7000 is the 
lack of a stacked sheet feeder.  Must feed every sheet individually 
or use rolls.

Also, the heads in the pro models are claimed to be driven by a 
more sophisticated stabilized electronics package than the 
consumer units have.   While almost any Epson is capable of 
excellent prints, the pro models are in fact a bit more consistent 
print to print.   I have measured step wedges on literally 
hundreds of Epson prints from several of my printers, and the 
ones from the pro models were measurably more consistent in 
density (and with color inks, color balance).

Finally, the consumer models really need a CFS if you want to 
avoid recalibrating constantly every time one of the small carts 
runs out.  The pro models have very large (but expensive) carts.  I 
use 9000 size MIS carts in my 7000 and they last months for me. 

Incidentally, the MIS inks, both archival color and VM hex, have 
been generally very clog-free in my 5000 and 7000 even with 
weeks of downtime. I did have a leaky cart once but MIS replaced 
it immediately at no charge.

Charles Rozier

Thanks for all the replies.

Since I posted, I was offline for a few days, and when I logged on, I
found many useful responses on the group, and others in my inbox.

The consensus seems to be "don't" sort of.

Thanks again,
ken