Digital BW, The Print

Hi all

Does anyone know if carts in a No More Carts CIS or an MIS CFS for 
the 1270/80/90 contain poppet valves similar to Epson carts.  My 
understanding is that no non-Epson cart vendor has carts with poppet 
valves.

I have a CIS for an 1160 which was the pre-poppet valve days so I 
cannot check.  I also have a CFS for the 1290 from a local reseller 
which apparently has poppet valves.  I'm perplexed.

K2

Hallo,
only if you clean Epson carts - you will have poppet valves!
I have three own built 1290 CIS - I only bought the parts from MIS.
On one of them I used Epson used carts - the best and least 
troublesome!
The least troublesome of all - is my two Epson 3000, with emptied, 
cleaned carts - then refilled with inks.

All works, and in all this talking about what "CIS" system to buy, I 
would like to use the dry words of Ed Hamrick,

"Any will do!"

Add to that here - "They are all quite simple - don't worry!"

Bo 
Sweden



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "K2 Chittin" <k2lists@h...> 
wrote:
> Hi all
> 
> Does anyone know if carts in a No More Carts CIS or an MIS CFS for 
> the 1270/80/90 contain poppet valves similar to Epson carts.  My 
> understanding is that no non-Epson cart vendor has carts with 
poppet 

> valves.
> 
> I have a CIS for an 1160 which was the pre-poppet valve days so I 
> cannot check.  I also have a CFS for the 1290 from a local reseller 
> which apparently has poppet valves.  I'm perplexed.
> 
> K2

I agree. I made my own on 3 Epson 1270s with MIS parts and Epson carts
with poppets. No problems. The only thing I changed is the way the lines
come off of the cartridge. I copied NoMoreCarts design instead and used
acrylic to hold the tubing on the cartridges. The tubing flows much
better this way with fewer problems. I also prefer the NoMoreCarts
tubing if you can get it. It is much more flexible and not so stiff. It
is made by Tygon (R-3603) and is laboratory grade tubing. 

*******


Hallo,
only if you clean Epson carts - you will have poppet valves!
I have three own built 1290 CIS - I only bought the parts from MIS.
On one of them I used Epson used carts - the best and least 
troublesome!
The least troublesome of all - is my two Epson 3000, with emptied, 
cleaned carts - then refilled with inks.

All works, and in all this talking about what "CIS" system to buy, I 
would like to use the dry words of Ed Hamrick,

"Any will do!"

Add to that here - "They are all quite simple - don't worry!"

Bo 
Sweden

I should have said that the brand name of tubing is Tygon and it is made
by Saint-Gobain Performance Plastics.

You knew this was coming, right?  What's a poppet valve?

Jerry

> Hi all
> 
> Does anyone know if carts in a No More Carts CIS or an MIS CFS for
> the 1270/80/90 contain poppet valves similar to Epson carts.  My
> understanding is that no non-Epson cart vendor has carts with poppet
> valves.
> 
> I have a CIS for an 1160 which was the pre-poppet valve days so I
> cannot check.  I also have a CFS for the 1290 from a local reseller
> which apparently has poppet valves.  I'm perplexed.
> 
> K2
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
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> 
>

<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> You knew this was coming, right?  What's a poppet valve?

Jerry

Being a collector of 1280s, I thought you would have beem the first 
to answer my question. :)

Check out this MIS page for an explanation.

http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/poppet.html

K2

Jerry

On a related note, I think you once mentioned that you removed 
the "continuous" chips from your 1280 CIS to fit Epson carts.  I 
presume these chips are universal fitting.  Does this mean that 
someone can make their own CIS with old Epson carts and replace the 
chips?

I don't want to sound so dumb.  I just wanted to make doubly sure 
before I start dishing out advice to friends. :)  The picture on 
Inkjetart's site looks like their carts are designed slightly 
differently for the chips.  Or may be just designed to make chip 
insertion easier.

K2

Hallo K2,

Yes, you must perform step 1 *if* you are going to fill the cart with 
another dye-ink or pigment-ink.
 
There are foam inserts in each chamber that holds the ink. It takes a 
lot of time using MIS flushing/cleaning outfit. (or your own invented 
one)
I do buy the "inlet knees" and the carts loose and put them together. 
The advantage with orginal cleaned Epson carts are the poppet valve 
(a spring + a ball that closes the cart when you take it out of the 
printer).

It takes ten minutes to drill, tap and glue the knees on. Don't 
forget to close the air-inlets on the cart with melt-glue. That's it!
(Special glue for the inlet knees - Loctite "Plastix" with activator 
and glue)

The other steps 2 to 4 is right. It's that simple.
You must not be the "master DIY" in your town to fix a CIS yourself!

If you are letting the printer stand for three weeks now and then, 
then I do recomend you to rip off the black tube and have that easaly 
taken away. I use some simple El-tape to tape that black tube to the 
others. Put a endglued 6 mm tube on the cart inlet(the knee) to close 
the black cart. 
Rise the black tube to empty it. Close all airinlets on the bottles. 
Go to holiday. Coming back - with a syringe suck black ink into the 
black tube and connect it again.
Print!
(The black PIEZO and MIS archival and pigmeted black inks evaporates 
through the tubes..)


Happy DIY - CIS'ing

Fiat Lux!

Bo Wrangborg
Sweden

 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "K2 Chittin" <k2lists@h...> 
wrote:
> Thanks Bo and Murray.  What started out as a question of curiosity 
> may well end up being far more beneficial!
> 
> I was doing some research on the latest on the CIS front for some 
> colleagues here in Europe.  Now I might recommend that they just 
make 

> their own CIS.  The question is, for someone who is technically and 
> DIY savvy, how complicated is it?  I presume you
> 
> 1. Clean out old Epson carts
> 2. Drill holes in the top of each colour chamber
> 3. Glue the little tube fittings and attach the tubing
> 4. Suck the ink into each chamber with a bottom fill adaptor
> 
> Do you even need to perform step 1?
> 
> I have enough printers and CISes so I won't be attempting this 
> surgical procedure anytime soon myself. :)
> 
> K2

Epson's chips are glued on and you have to pry them off. THird party
chips are in a little plastic holder that just slide in. Much easier.  I
don't think you could interchange them, unless you are very handy at
that sort of thing.

Jerry

The cartridges are slightly different in the way that chips are installed.




K2 Chittin wrote:

> 
> Jerry
> 
> On a related note, I think you once mentioned that you removed
> the "continuous" chips from your 1280 CIS to fit Epson carts.  I
> presume these chips are universal fitting.  Does this mean that
> someone can make their own CIS with old Epson carts and replace the
> chips?
> 
> I don't want to sound so dumb.  I just wanted to make doubly sure
> before I start dishing out advice to friends. :)  The picture on
> Inkjetart's site looks like their carts are designed slightly
> differently for the chips.  Or may be just designed to make chip
> insertion easier.
> 
> K2
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "K2 Chittin" <k2lists@h...> 
wrote:
> Thanks Bo and Murray.  What started out as a question of curiosity 
> may well end up being far more beneficial!
> 
> I was doing some research on the latest on the CIS front for some 
> colleagues here in Europe.  Now I might recommend that they just 
make 
> their own CIS.  The question is, for someone who is technically and 
> DIY savvy, how complicated is it?  I presume you
>

If you were to buy all the parts from MIS (inculding empty carts) vs 
buying an assembled cart/tubing part you only save $10 US.

I haven't done it myself but..
 
> 1. Clean out old Epson carts

Buy a flushing manifold from MIS and run watter thru, they have 
this procedure on their site or did have...

> 2. Drill holes in the top of each colour chamber

AND TAP the holes for the threaded elbows...


> 3. Glue the little tube fittings and attach the tubing

Pass the tubing thru the bottle caps and trim tubing ends to length...

> 4. Suck the ink into each chamber with a bottom fill adaptor

good question- I don't know if you wreck the poppet valves doing this. 
You could damage the filter if not careful...

> 
> Do you even need to perform step 1?

You could saw off the top of cart, replace the sponge with new ones 
from a virgin cart. Bob Zeis at MIS told me they have a setup like 
this where they just run the thing without any tubing- they just pour 
more ink into open top of cart when needed. I presume they have some 
way of taping the top of cart back on to prevent spills/evaporation. 
I think I understood him correctly. Sounds weird to me.<g>


BTW, you origianlly asked about differences between CFS and CIS- I 
have some posts back a few months if you are still interested you may 
try a search. I have modest experience with both systems.
Jim H.

> 
> I have enough printers and CISes so I won't be attempting this 
> surgical procedure anytime soon myself. :)
> 
> K2

Thanks Bo and Murray.  What started out as a question of curiosity 
may well end up being far more beneficial!

I was doing some research on the latest on the CIS front for some 
colleagues here in Europe.  Now I might recommend that they just make 
their own CIS.  The question is, for someone who is technically and 
DIY savvy, how complicated is it?  I presume you

1. Clean out old Epson carts

Yes, with MIS Drain Kit

2. Drill holes in the top of each colour chamber

Drill and tap for tubing fittings

3. Glue the little tube fittings and attach the tubing

Yes, 2 part Loctite glue for plastic (Plastix)

4. Suck the ink into each chamber with a bottom fill adaptor

Use the Vacuum technique, same as what NoMoreCarts uses.

Jim

> You could saw off the top of cart, replace the sponge with new ones 
> from a virgin cart. Bob Zeis at MIS told me they have a setup like 
> this where they just run the thing without any tubing- they just 
pour 
> more ink into open top of cart when needed. I presume they have 
some 
> way of taping the top of cart back on to prevent 
spills/evaporation. 
> I think I understood him correctly. Sounds weird to me.<g>

That sounds like an interesting space-saving idea.  I wonder why 
anyone would go to the trouble of having a CFS and then refilling - 
sorry, topping up - carts when they run low?

> BTW, you origianlly asked about differences between CFS and CIS- I 
> have some posts back a few months if you are still interested you 
may 
> try a search. I have modest experience with both systems.

Actually, my original post asked about differences between CFS and 
CIS *carts*.  I was curious about MIS's claims that only Epson 
original carts have poppet valves, yet I know of a local CFS reseller 
who sells carts with poppet valves.  I too have experience of both 
systems, but, unfortunately, the CIS is on the 1160 and the CFS is on 
the 1290.  I'm happy with both systems.

K2

To get some inspiration for DIY CISses you could check the following site:

http://www.eddiem.com/photo/CIS/cis.htm

http://www.eddiem.com/photo/CIS/1160/cis1160.htm

I've seen more elegant solutions but it shows that the printers do not need
the normal cart at all. That means one could make an "easier to refill" cart
solution or a CIS without a cart in between.

Eddie has done more work on the chip resetter too since he mentioned it on
the list:

http://www.eddiem.com/photo/CIS/inkchip/chip.html

http://www.eddiem.com/photo/printer/chipreset/resetchip.html

Ernst

Forgot to quote the most interesting page on Eddie's site:

http://www.eddiem.com/photo/CIS/2100p/cis2100.htm

Another step in the struggle to replace global economy with global DIY
economy.

Ernst

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Ernst Dinkla" 
<E.Dinkla@c...> wrote:
> To get some inspiration for DIY CISses you could check the 
following site:
> 
> http://www.eddiem.com/photo/CIS/cis.htm
> 
> http://www.eddiem.com/photo/CIS/1160/cis1160.htm
> 
> I've seen more elegant solutions ...

Ernst

I came across Eddie's site quite a while back.  Your link reminded me 
to go have a look to give me chuckle again.  Hey, it's the result 
that counts at the end of the day, right? :)

K2

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "K2 Chittin" <k2lists@h...> 
wrote:
> Jim
> 
> > You could saw off the top of cart, replace the sponge with new 
ones 
> > from a virgin cart. Bob Zeis at MIS told me they have a setup like 
> > this where they just run the thing without any tubing- they just 
> pour 
> > more ink into open top of cart when needed. I presume they have 
> some 
> > way of taping the top of cart back on to prevent 
> spills/evaporation. 
> > I think I understood him correctly. Sounds weird to me.<g>
> 
> That sounds like an interesting space-saving idea.  I wonder why 
> anyone would go to the trouble of having a CFS and then refilling - 
> sorry, topping up - carts when they run low?


I have a little problem using the phone as I have hearing problems 
which the amplify button on the phone doesn't always help with. So I 
miss words at times when I talk to these folks. But I was pretty sure 
that Bob Zeiss said he had a desktop printer setup with this sawed 
cart.

What I fail to understand and what makes the whole idea seem "weird" 
to me is 1) how you keep the ink from splashing out as the head whips 
around, and 2) how you keep the ink from evaporating out. All I can 
figure is they put the top back on , tape it, and have some way of 
refilling through the top that doesn't involve removing cart clamp or 
cart top/tape.

> 
> > BTW, you origianlly asked about differences between CFS and CIS- I 
> > have some posts back a few months if you are still interested you 
> may 
> > try a search. I have modest experience with both systems.
> 
> Actually, my original post asked about differences between CFS and 
> CIS *carts*.  I was curious about MIS's claims that only Epson 
> original carts have poppet valves, yet I know of a local CFS 
reseller 
> who sells carts with poppet valves. 


Wow that would be nice. Too bad I'm going over to the 2200. Might have 
 tried to get some for my 1280<g>
Jim H.

 I too have experience of both 
> systems, but, unfortunately, the CIS is on the 1160 and the CFS is 
on 

> the 1290.  I'm happy with both systems.
> 
> K2

I spoke to Bob Zeiss at MIS a couple of hours ago about something and 
asked him about what Jim Hayes mentioned: topping up the carts 
without having a CFS.

Bob said that they use CFSes at MIS but related to what Jim was 
talking about.  Check out this page on the MIS site.  

http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/sponge.html

As you'll see, it's not a topping up procedure as we originally 
speculated.

K2

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "K2 Chittin" <k2lists@h...> 
wrote:
> I spoke to Bob Zeiss at MIS a couple of hours ago about something 
and 
> asked him about what Jim Hayes mentioned: topping up the carts 
> without having a CFS.
> 
> Bob said that they use CFSes at MIS but related to what Jim was 
> talking about.  Check out this page on the MIS site.  
> 
> http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/sponge.html
> 
> As you'll see, it's not a topping up procedure as we originally 
> speculated.
> 
> K2

Yeah, I guess not. If you could fill from the top, it would be close 
to what I was imagining I heard (I have some hearing loss and 
telephones can be a problem getting 100% of the words in<g>).

I'm wondering why you still couldn't just fill from the top. Only 
thing I can think of is it might trap more air, causing foamy ink. Or 
if a long needle was used so that the ink exited near the bottom port, 
past the sponge?

The other advantage not mentioned to this method is that you can get 
carts with poppet valves on them, if you can't find a 3rd party 
source. With all the work involved though, you'd have to be pretty 
desperate.
Jim H.

Jim

> I'm wondering why you still couldn't just fill from the top. Only 
> thing I can think of is it might trap more air, causing foamy ink. 
Or 
> if a long needle was used so that the ink exited near the bottom 
port, 
> past the sponge?

I have no experience with refilling.  I just didn't want to go 
there.  However, I can't see why you couldn't fill from the top 
provided you left another hole for air to escape while you're filling.

> The other advantage not mentioned to this method is that you can 
get 
> carts with poppet valves on them, if you can't find a 3rd party 
> source. With all the work involved though, you'd have to be pretty 
> desperate.

LOL.  I've recently found out that Jettec carts have poppet valves.  
They sell refill kits with a chip resetter but I'm not sure if those 
kits include empty carts.

K2