Digital BW, The Print

I've not used Pauls curves, but assuming that his curves are sound and this
needs fine tuning - Build a modification grey curve whilst you are in
greyscale. If you are using Paul's wedge, the numbers for each square are
there, type the right numbers into the input/output box in curves. Then
apply that curve, convert to rgb and try again.

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Murray Zaharia" <zaharia@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 9:10 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] VMS curves question and problem - Paul, others?


>
> RE: [Digital BW] More on 'posterization again'
>
> This is going back to the above thread.
>
>  I have printed out the 100 step greyscale wedge (Alex Pettit from
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/Image%2
> 0processing/ ) on my 1270 loaded with a new set of VMS inks in a CIS
> onto Epson Archival matte paper. I had areas of my prints with no detail
> that is clearly there on my file. It was in areas from approx 50 to 100
> in the info pallet. This is confirmed on my printout of the above
> mentioned greyscale wedge. There is NO visual differentiation between
> any individual squares between 54 and 99 (info pallet) on the greyscale
> wedge that I printed out. I also scanned the greyscale wedge printout
> and checked it out with the dropper (3x3 sample) in Photoshop as well
> and it confirms the same.
>
>  What is going on here? I can't see anyone being happy with this lack of
> detail and the posterized look that results. Is there a possibility that
> the curves are corrupted or something? Can the curves be adjusted to fix
> this? I just cannot see that Paul would have been happy with these
> results in the first place, therefore something must not be right.
>
> My settings in Photoshop 7:
>
> Working Space: Adobe RGB
> Gray: Gray Gamma 2.2
> Print Space: Printer Color Management
>
> I am following to the letter Paul's instructions for his curves.
>
> I am using an Epson 1270 with the proper 1270 curve (vm70-NCA-w1) and
> printing on Epson Archival Matte paper.
>
> Driver settings:
> Matte Paper - Heavyweight
> 1440 dpi
> High Quality Halftoning
> Microweave on
> High Speed off
> No Color Adjustment
>
> I have perfect nozzle checks as well.
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Having just reread this I realise how unclear I was. Using the info check
each box - this will tell you what the numbers 'are' - you should know from
the wedge what they should be. Adjust each measurement by the correct amount
to compensate.

Julian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Julian Thomas" <julianthomas@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 9:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] VMS curves question and problem - Paul, others?


> I've not used Pauls curves, but assuming that his curves are sound and
this
> needs fine tuning - Build a modification grey curve whilst you are in
> greyscale. If you are using Paul's wedge, the numbers for each square are
> there, type the right numbers into the input/output box in curves. Then
> apply that curve, convert to rgb and try again.
>
> Julian
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Murray Zaharia" <zaharia@...>
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 9:10 PM
> Subject: [Digital BW] VMS curves question and problem - Paul, others?
>
>
> >
> > RE: [Digital BW] More on 'posterization again'
> >
> > This is going back to the above thread.
> >
> >  I have printed out the 100 step greyscale wedge (Alex Pettit from
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/Image%2
> > 0processing/ ) on my 1270 loaded with a new set of VMS inks in a CIS
> > onto Epson Archival matte paper. I had areas of my prints with no detail
> > that is clearly there on my file. It was in areas from approx 50 to 100
> > in the info pallet. This is confirmed on my printout of the above
> > mentioned greyscale wedge. There is NO visual differentiation between
> > any individual squares between 54 and 99 (info pallet) on the greyscale
> > wedge that I printed out. I also scanned the greyscale wedge printout
> > and checked it out with the dropper (3x3 sample) in Photoshop as well
> > and it confirms the same.
> >
> >  What is going on here? I can't see anyone being happy with this lack of
> > detail and the posterized look that results. Is there a possibility that
> > the curves are corrupted or something? Can the curves be adjusted to fix
> > this? I just cannot see that Paul would have been happy with these
> > results in the first place, therefore something must not be right.
> >
> > My settings in Photoshop 7:
> >
> > Working Space: Adobe RGB
> > Gray: Gray Gamma 2.2
> > Print Space: Printer Color Management
> >
> > I am following to the letter Paul's instructions for his curves.
> >
> > I am using an Epson 1270 with the proper 1270 curve (vm70-NCA-w1) and
> > printing on Epson Archival Matte paper.
> >
> > Driver settings:
> > Matte Paper - Heavyweight
> > 1440 dpi
> > High Quality Halftoning
> > Microweave on
> > High Speed off
> > No Color Adjustment
> >
> > I have perfect nozzle checks as well.
> >
> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to
keep
> them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> resources on the homepage.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
resources on the homepage.

>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Paul

Thanks for the reply. 
I definitely have the inks in the right order. I tried Tyler Boley's
curves for the 1280 on my 1270 using the 1280 driver and Photoshop 7.
The results were much better than using your vm70-NCA-w1 curve with the
1270 driver and settings that I mentioned in my previous post. I used
Tyler's Wm05 curve with SRGB workspace as he specifies in his
instructions. It is strange to me that this curve prints only slightly
warmer than your curve. I would think that by the name of Tyler's curve
that it would be more sepia. I am going to try your curve again but with
Photoshop 6 this time and see if there is a difference. I will post my
results in the next 10 minutes. 

Thanks.

  
This sounds like more than a minor settings problem.  Try the attached
purge6 pattern and see if it looks like the image file that is
attached.  There may be an ink in the wrong place.
 
PS 7 can be a problem, but I can't imagine it would throw things this
far off.
 
Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: Murray Zaharia [mailto:zaharia@...]
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 12:10 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] VMS curves question and problem - Paul, others?

RE: [Digital BW] More on 'posterization again'

This is going back to the above thread.

I have printed out the 100 step greyscale wedge (Alex Pettit from
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/Image%2
0processing/ ) on my 1270 loaded with a new set of VMS inks in a CIS
onto Epson Archival matte paper. I had areas of my prints with no detail
that is clearly there on my file. It was in areas from approx 50 to 100
in the info pallet. This is confirmed on my printout of the above
mentioned greyscale wedge. There is NO visual differentiation between
any individual squares between 54 and 99 (info pallet) on the greyscale
wedge that I printed out. I also scanned the greyscale wedge printout
and checked it out with the dropper (3x3 sample) in Photoshop as well
and it confirms the same.

What is going on here? I can't see anyone being happy with this lack of
detail and the posterized look that results. Is there a possibility that
the curves are corrupted or something? Can the curves be adjusted to fix
this? I just cannot see that Paul would have been happy with these
results in the first place, therefore something must not be right.

My settings in Photoshop 7:

Working Space: Adobe RGB
Gray: Gray Gamma 2.2
Print Space: Printer Color Management

I am following to the letter Paul's instructions for his curves.

I am using an Epson 1270 with the proper 1270 curve (vm70-NCA-w1) and
printing on Epson Archival Matte paper.

Driver settings:
Matte Paper - Heavyweight
1440 dpi
High Quality Halftoning
Microweave on
High Speed off
No Color Adjustment

I have perfect nozzle checks as well.

Paul

I just tried using your curve (vm70-NCA-w1)through Photoshop 6 and got a
great print without the problem. It seems like this is a Photoshop 7
issue. I had exactly the same problem a month ago sending my files to a
Fuji Frontier from Photoshop 7 and very contrasty results. Turns out
that Adobe changed the way they put things in the exif data between PS6
and PS7 and the Frontier had a problem with it. I ended up using
Photoshop 6 to save my files to disk for the Frontier. It seems as if
Photoshop 7 and the Epson driver have something similar going on. I
guess I never noticed a problem with my first good print and PS7 because
there was little area between 50 and 100 in the info palette. I will
keep you updated if I find anything else as I play around here with the
curves. I am going to run through the 100 step greyscale stepwedge again
and PS6 this time with your curve and see if it's still blocked up.

Thanks.
Murray

***

This sounds like more than a minor settings problem.  Try the attached
purge6 pattern and see if it looks like the image file that is
attached.  There may be an ink in the wrong place.
 
PS 7 can be a problem, but I can't imagine it would throw things this
far off.
 
Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: Murray Zaharia [mailto:zaharia@...]
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 12:10 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] VMS curves question and problem - Paul, others?

RE: [Digital BW] More on 'posterization again'

This is going back to the above thread.

I have printed out the 100 step greyscale wedge (Alex Pettit from
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/Image%2
0processing/ ) on my 1270 loaded with a new set of VMS inks in a CIS
onto Epson Archival matte paper. I had areas of my prints with no detail
that is clearly there on my file. It was in areas from approx 50 to 100
in the info pallet. This is confirmed on my printout of the above
mentioned greyscale wedge. There is NO visual differentiation between
any individual squares between 54 and 99 (info pallet) on the greyscale
wedge that I printed out. I also scanned the greyscale wedge printout
and checked it out with the dropper (3x3 sample) in Photoshop as well
and it confirms the same.

What is going on here? I can't see anyone being happy with this lack of
detail and the posterized look that results. Is there a possibility that
the curves are corrupted or something? Can the curves be adjusted to fix
this? I just cannot see that Paul would have been happy with these
results in the first place, therefore something must not be right.

My settings in Photoshop 7:

Working Space: Adobe RGB
Gray: Gray Gamma 2.2
Print Space: Printer Color Management

I am following to the letter Paul's instructions for his curves.

I am using an Epson 1270 with the proper 1270 curve (vm70-NCA-w1) and
printing on Epson Archival Matte paper.

Driver settings:
Matte Paper - Heavyweight
1440 dpi
High Quality Halftoning
Microweave on
High Speed off
No Color Adjustment

I have perfect nozzle checks as well.