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Re: [Digital BW] Best B&W system?

Re: [Digital BW] Best B&W system?

2002-12-30 by Jo Brunenberg

Hello Bill,
Thanks for sharing your experience!

you wrote:
"...........I too think that 1160 / MIS VM with the Roark curves produces superior
B&W prints compared to the 2200 (not to mention that MIS VM with a CIS
system is more economical if many prints are made)".

I am using an Epson 2100 (European equivalent for 2200) for colour and B&W and I love the colour images but cannot get neutral B&W images out of this printer whatever I have tried.
So from your story I understand I need  Colorbyte to get neutral results...or use MIS VM.
Do you have any experience with Piezo B&W? If so, how does it compare to MIS?

Best regards,

Jo Brunenberg

www.jobrunenberg.com




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Re: Best B&W system?

2002-12-31 by billstrong50 <billstrong50@yahoo.com>

Hi Jo,

I have no experience with Piezo B&W. My only experience with Inkjet
Mall was to buy a set of profiles for printing Gen4 Enhanced on my
Epson/1270. These profiles were not satisfactory for my use. Too many
colors fell out of gamut and when printed lost all detail. I
ultimately paid for a custom profile (from a different company) which
was a vast improvement but still nowhere close to the excellent
results I get with the IP5/2200 and the supplied IP5 profiles. To my
eyes the prints are neutral with almost dye-like saturation. I use the
matte black 2200 ink. 

I have very limited experience with B&W on the IP5/2200. I have a lot
of experience with MIS VM Epson/1160 with the Roark curves. I am
accumulating a lot of experience with color on the IP5/2200. I proof
on EEM and print on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 188. To my eyes, between EEM
and Photo Rag, it is easy to see that the whites are whiter and the
blacks are blacker on Photo Rag. This is an added dimension of "smooth
crispness" when viewed side by side. So far I have not had the flaking
problem with Photo Rag.

Earlier I did not mean to imply that printing B&W on the IP5/2200 is
anything but totally acceptable. It's just that, all things
considered, compared to MIS VM, within my narrow IP5/2200 B&W
experience, I like the softer tones of MIS VM better.

I have tried sending the exact same file to IP5/2200 and MIS VM
Epson/1160. I start with an RGB file that has been converted to B&W
with Digital Imaging Tools Convert to BW Pro. This converted file is
still an RGB file. 

I do a grayscale mode conversion to the BW Pro RGB file in Photoshop
and then send it to IP5/2200. 

I apply the Roark medium warm curve to the BW Pro RGB file and then
send it to the MIS VM Epson/1160 controlled by the stock Epson 1160
Windows driver

The IP5/2200 print has much more contrast with deeper blacks but with
loss of a significant amount of shadow detail. Transition areas are
generally abrupt. It definitely looks snappier.

The MIS VM Epson/1160 print is softer but has more shadow detail and
transitions between light and dark areas are generally smooth. The
print is overall softer and the blacks are not as deep.

Remember, I said I sent identical files.

I suspect that if I would crank down the contrast in the BW Pro
conversion and send that to IP5/2200 that the print would probably
look as good as, if not better than, MIS VM Epson/1160 and with deeper
blacks to boot. 

I have been preoccupied making color prints for a show so I have not
pursued IP5/2200 B&W as much as I want to. When I do have time to do
further testing, I will report back.

Highlights and vast open areas of near-white do not evidence any dots
to my eyes with either setup.

I feel that after a year's struggle I have reached a temporary stage
of printing nirvana.

Regards,

Bill


> I am using an Epson 2100 (European equivalent for 2200) for colour
and B&W and I love the colour images but cannot get neutral B&W images
out of this printer whatever I have tried.
> So from your story I understand I need  Colorbyte to get neutral
results...or use MIS VM.
> Do you have any experience with Piezo B&W? If so, how does it
compare to MIS?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Jo Brunenberg

Re: [Digital BW] Best B&W system?

2003-01-01 by shashinka@aol.com

Hi Jo:

Try using black ink only(1440 hi speed off) on the 2100/2200 on a paper like 
Enhanced Velvet for Epson. I find it excellent.

All the best!

Andrew Darlow

------
Photography, Digital Print Consulting and Custom Editions
Andrew Darlow Images International, www.andrewdarlow.com
Author: Inkjet Tip of the Month Club (newsletter)   
To subscribe, send e-mail to: Inkjettips-subscribe@yahoogroups.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Best B&W system?

2003-01-05 by Jo Brunenberg

Hi Andrew,

You wrote:
Try using black ink only(1440 hi speed off) on the 2100/2200 on a paper like 
Enhanced Velvet for Epson. I find it excellent.

I have tried it. The result indeed is much more neutral with the black only setting. No colourshifts along the greywedge and no metamerism.
So far so good.
Unfortunately the image structure is not as smooth as when using all 7 colours. 
The dots in the highlights are much more visible and the prints have a less "photographic" look.

It would be nice if you could use Mate Black AND light black for B&W prints.
I think the result would be smoother.

Jo Brunenberg
http://www.jobrunenberg.com

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Re: [Digital BW] Best B&W system?

2003-01-05 by danielstaver <daniel@petraflux.com>

If you're on OS X or Linux you can try using Gimp-Print. It'll allow 
you to use both Matte-black and Light-black when you print. The image-
structure does look much smoother with two blacks instead of one, but 
adding the light-black gives the image a very strong sepia-tone, much 
more so than when using black only. To achieve a totally neutral 
print you will have to add both cyan and magenta I think.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Jo Brunenberg" 
<jobnl@e...> wrote:
>  
> Hi Andrew,
> 
> You wrote:
> Try using black ink only(1440 hi speed off) on the 2100/2200 on a 
paper like 
> Enhanced Velvet for Epson. I find it excellent.
> 
> I have tried it. The result indeed is much more neutral with the 
black only setting. No colourshifts along the greywedge and no 
metamerism.
> So far so good.
> Unfortunately the image structure is not as smooth as when using 
all 7 colours. 
> The dots in the highlights are much more visible and the prints 
have a less "photographic" look.
> 
> It would be nice if you could use Mate Black AND light black for 
B&W prints.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> I think the result would be smoother.
> 
> Jo Brunenberg
> http://www.jobrunenberg.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> The most personalized portal on the Web!
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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