Digital BW, The Print

Hello All,

I recently bought a 6 x 9 camera and a Polaroid SprintScan 120 
scanner.  A majority of my previous experience has been 35 mm + 
transparency film, scanned on Nikon LS 2000, convereted to b/w in 
PS.  I am interested in doing pure b/w work, with b/w film.  I am 
seeking recommendations for film, those that can be scanned well 
(read: minimal grain aliasing) with the SS 120.  I will probably 
continue to use color positives when the scene contrast is low, but 
for relatively high contrast, I would much prefer negative film.  Any 
film/exposure/processing help is greatly appreciated.

Regards.

Shilesh

Shilesh --

I'm using an SS120 to scan 2-1/4 Tri-X. I've found Neat Image, available at 
<http://www.neatimage.com>, a versatile way to reduce the apparent 
graininess of film and thereby reduce gain aliasing. I've tried several 
other software methods to reduce the apparent grain, including the Grain 
and Noise Elimination (GANE) filter that's included with SilverFast v.6, 
and found that neither GANE or anything else I've tried rivals Neat Image 
for this purpose.

I start by using the SS120 to import a 16-bit grayscale image into 
Photoshop. After basic tonal adjustments, cropping and resizing, I export a 
flattened 8-bit grayscale image as a TIFF, follow Neat Image's recommended 
procedure of sampling even-toned areas of the image to create a grain-free 
version, and then copy and paste the image as a layer on top of the 
original image in Photoshop. I then adjust its opacity to produce exactly 
the amount of grain reduction I want. I've found it worth leaving some 
slight graininess so the picture still looks photographic -- about 60% 
opacity usually works well.

I then follow up with Robert Barnett's " Ultra-Sharpen Pro, available at 
<http://www.ultrasharpen.com>. It's a terrifically useful tool for 
sharpening edges without sharpening areas of even tonality. With it I can 
enhance the apparent sharpness of an image without increasing its apparent 
graininess. It works much better for this purpose than either the 
sharpening tools built into Neat Image or sharpening with a threshold 
adjustment in Photoshop's Unsharp Mask filter.

Using Neat Image and Ultrasharpen Pro this way provides beautifully smooth 
tonal transitions, exquisite management of grain / grain aliasing, and 
optimized images for sharp, grain-free enlargements.

-- Victor Landweber


At 06:37 PM 1/11/2003 +0000, you wrote:

>Hello All,
>
>I recently bought a 6 x 9 camera and a Polaroid SprintScan 120
>scanner.  A majority of my previous experience has been 35 mm +
>transparency film, scanned on Nikon LS 2000, convereted to b/w in
>PS.  I am interested in doing pure b/w work, with b/w film.  I am
>seeking recommendations for film, those that can be scanned well
>(read: minimal grain aliasing) with the SS 120.  I will probably
>continue to use color positives when the scene contrast is low, but
>for relatively high contrast, I would much prefer negative film.  Any
>film/exposure/processing help is greatly appreciated.
>
>Regards.
>
>Shilesh
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and 
>other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
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Hello Shilesh,

>I am interested in doing pure b/w work, with b/w film.  I am 
>seeking recommendations for film,...

That's a tall order.  There are many good films and each has its
adherents.  The only way to know for sure what they are like and which
you prefer is to try them.  FWIW, for a good number of years I
experimented with many films and developers but always kept coming
back to good old Tri-X.  For 120 size it comes in both ISO 320 and
400.  I prefer the 400 myself.  It's just a terrific film.  I'll leave
it at that.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm

Hello Shilesh;

yuo wrote;

I recently bought a 6 x 9 camera and a Polaroid SprintScan 120
>scanner. A majority of my previous experience has been 35 mm +
>transparency film, scanned on Nikon LS 2000, convereted to b/w in
>PS. I am interested in doing pure b/w work, with b/w film. I am
>seeking recommendations for film, those that can be scanned well
>(read: minimal grain aliasing) with the SS 120. I will probably
>continue to use color positives when the scene contrast is low, but
>for relatively high contrast, I would much prefer negative film. Any
>film/exposure/processing help is greatly appreciated.
>
 Well here's my 2c worth: I'm a fine-grain freak, never could stand 
Tri-X, unless it was big enough to print grainless at my favorite 
sizes. I would suggest three films to put on your test list: T-max 
100 (I can hear Clayton puke all the way across town), Ilford Delta 
100, and Kodak's TCN-400, yes, the chromogenic stuff. It is quite 
sharp, much finer grained than Tri-X (though not as fine as T-max 
100) and scans very well, since there are no light-blocking silver 
clumps. And you can get it processed decently at any 60-minute 
lab,which is not possible with B&W films. I'm also testing the Fuji 
Across, but don't yet have a good enough handle to venture an 
opinion.

Well, good luck with it...

Steve K

Shilesh:

I'm very happy shooting and scanning Ilford XP2 @ 400 (but in 35mm). I
could probably be just as happy using TCN. Long scale, no real grain
issues but there is one major benefit: I don't have to process it,
just take it any mini lab. I can shoot on Sunday, drop off & pick up
during lunch and be scanning Monday night. I find I get better final
images by investing my time in shooting, working in photoshop and
printing than developing film. 

If you decide to go the chromogenic route, I've found that it does not
have the overexposure latitude of conventional b&w film in a wet
darkroom and leans more toward burning out highlights, especially when
scanned.  

Bob Michaels

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Shilesh Jani
<shilesh.jani@s...>" <shilesh.jani@s...> wrote:

> Hello All,
> 
> I recently bought a 6 x 9 camera and a Polaroid SprintScan 120 
> scanner.  A majority of my previous experience has been 35 mm + 
> transparency film, scanned on Nikon LS 2000, convereted to b/w in 
> PS.  I am interested in doing pure b/w work, with b/w film.  I am 
> seeking recommendations for film, those that can be scanned well 
> (read: minimal grain aliasing) with the SS 120.  I will probably 
> continue to use color positives when the scene contrast is low, but 
> for relatively high contrast, I would much prefer negative film.  Any 
> film/exposure/processing help is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Regards.
> 
> Shilesh

Thank for the responses to my question.  Although I wanted 
recommendations for "grain free" scans, I owe it to myself to try out 
(no opun intended) Tri-X.

Regards.

Shilesh

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Shilesh Jani 
<shilesh.jani@s...>" <shilesh.jani@s...> wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> I recently bought a 6 x 9 camera and a Polaroid SprintScan 120 
> scanner.  A majority of my previous experience has been 35 mm + 
> transparency film, scanned on Nikon LS 2000, convereted to b/w in 
> PS.  I am interested in doing pure b/w work, with b/w film.  I am 
> seeking recommendations for film, those that can be scanned well 
> (read: minimal grain aliasing) with the SS 120.  I will probably 
> continue to use color positives when the scene contrast is low, but 
> for relatively high contrast, I would much prefer negative film.  
Any 

> film/exposure/processing help is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Regards.
> 
> Shilesh

Shilesh --

You'll find that Tri-X is pretty grainy though it's capable of a 
beautifully subtle gray scale. Slower films are typically higher contrast 
with harsher tonal transitions; faster films are even grainier. The method 
I described in my previous post helps cope with Tri-X grain and can produce 
beautiful near-grainless scans (as grain-free as you want though, as I 
said, leaving a little grain makes the image look more photographic. In 120 
size I concur with Clayton in preferring the 400-speed to the 320. I have 
it developed in D76 diluted 1:1 for 10 minutes and agitated once a minute.

-- Victor Landweber


At 12:48 AM 1/14/2003 +0000, Shilesh Jani <shilesh.jani@...> 
wrote:

>Thank for the responses to my question.  Although I wanted
>recommendations for "grain free" scans, I owe it to myself to try out
>(no opun intended) Tri-X.
>
>Regards.
>
>Shilesh
>
>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Shilesh Jani
><shilesh.jani@s...>" <shilesh.jani@s...> wrote:
> > Hello All,
> >
> > I recently bought a 6 x 9 camera and a Polaroid SprintScan 120
> > scanner.  A majority of my previous experience has been 35 mm +
> > transparency film, scanned on Nikon LS 2000, convereted to b/w in
> > PS.  I am interested in doing pure b/w work, with b/w film.  I am
> > seeking recommendations for film, those that can be scanned well
> > (read: minimal grain aliasing) with the SS 120.  I will probably
> > continue to use color positives when the scene contrast is low, but
> > for relatively high contrast, I would much prefer negative film.
>Any
> > film/exposure/processing help is greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Regards.
> >
> > Shilesh
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and 
>other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
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>page.
>
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>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep 
>them short.
>- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
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>&amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
>- Complete your Yahoo profile.
>- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various 
>resources on the homepage.
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>-=-=-
>SBG-Priority: 4 (Low) http://www.internz.com/SpamBeGone/

Shiloh, have you researched or thought about Agfa Scala?  As you state you prefer transparencies, here is a black and white transparency film engineered specifically for scanning.  I use 120 format film and have tried the Kodaks and Ilfords prefer the Kodak T100 - but I shoot landscapes not portraits and it has a really nice look.  Scala is fantastic - if you are using digital darkroom.  NOT good for photographic printing though.

Just a thought

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Shilesh Jani <shilesh.jani@...> 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, January 13, 2003 7:48 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Film For SprintScan 120


  Thank for the responses to my question.  Although I wanted 
  recommendations for "grain free" scans, I owe it to myself to try out 
  (no opun intended) Tri-X.

  Regards.

  Shilesh

  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Shilesh Jani 
  <shilesh.jani@s...>" <shilesh.jani@s...> wrote:
  > Hello All,
  > 
  > I recently bought a 6 x 9 camera and a Polaroid SprintScan 120 
  > scanner.  A majority of my previous experience has been 35 mm + 
  > transparency film, scanned on Nikon LS 2000, convereted to b/w in 
  > PS.  I am interested in doing pure b/w work, with b/w film.  I am 
  > seeking recommendations for film, those that can be scanned well 
  > (read: minimal grain aliasing) with the SS 120.  I will probably 
  > continue to use color positives when the scene contrast is low, but 
  > for relatively high contrast, I would much prefer negative film.  
  Any 
  > film/exposure/processing help is greatly appreciated.
  > 
  > Regards.
  > 
  > Shilesh


  Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

  If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

  Please follow these basic guidelines:
  - Include your full name with your message.
  - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
  - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
  - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
  - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or &amp;amp;quot;flames.&amp;amp;quot;
  - Complete your Yahoo profile.
  - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. 




  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 



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